New drug legislation...

[Riley]

You are talking about? Well that is a whole other level. That mentality which affects or way of thinking, how we view, talk to, treat each other has very deep roots. Of course the school sys., the govt prgrams and scociety contribute to the self-limiting ideaologies those environments have. How, they don 't teach pride for your race, your heritage or any such thing. When you watch the news what do you see. I have a friend who grow up in a not so good area and I asked why didn't his mother, who is married school teacher move out into a better neighborhood. He said how with what money. Now I do not know her finances but he wasn't on the same page as me. Look for something you could afford, sell and go to a better neighborhood. I am a single indiv. who made a lot less than his parents but I bought a house. Why is that? B/c they we percieve our situations. I was raised never to let anyone think thay are better than you, do not owe anyone anything, and strive for the best no matter what. Unfortunately not everyone has that kind of upbringing. His perception was we couldn't afford a big fancy home like the rich people. Who said you have to. When you are on one end of the stick the other end looks very far away. Some people do not have the ability to see what is in between. Some might look at Oprah and say i can't be her. So what try anyway you might fail and have a house in the suburbs with your kids in private school. BUt the self-limiting way of thinking is very deep rooted. How to fix it all, that is beyond me. I have a started with my friends by getting them to think beyond their upbringing and realized they can acheive more than what they see. And belive me somethimes it is a hard thing to do.

[kitten03]

Originally posted by librasoul22
kitten03, I am enjoying this discussion as well. It does, however sadden me to read both you and Riley's points of view. When I said look deeper, I didn't mean to look at the present. I meant look at the root of the problem. Right now, drugs are being sold in the inner cities, people are stuck in the ghettos, okay. But WHY? I think we have already established that. Keeping that in mind, it is extremely hard to simply ERASE a state of mind that has been carefully manufactured to those in the inner city. Just like racism as a whole. IT is still HERE. It is still PREVALENT. The only difference is tha it is more covert. Same thing with oppression. Why don't some people know the game is being played? Because they are not privy to that information, BY DESIGN. I am sort of uncomfortable that you guys are blaming the inner city for "perpetuating" all of this. Yes, indeed, some are seeling drugs to own the designer fashion and to have the best cars and jewelry. Yes, some people DO have the mindset that they can't be anything more than what they are right now. But I am telling you that through media, the school system (ever been to a school in the ghetto? Horrible.), and nearly every other avenue, these people have been given the idea that they are not good enough and never will be. For those few who make it out, more power to them. But it is going to take more than a minute to earse the mentality that has been firmly entrenched for so long. And who is responsible for that (putting it there)?

I'm a little confused. I'm not blaming the inner city. I am questioning the people's role in the degeneration and regeneration of the inner city. What is the "all this" you speak of? No one is questioning the plight of oppressed people. However, this is not the subject of the post that you began. I'm addressing the issues on a drug related scale.

Now as far as the "these people" you speak of, I was one. What is more pervasive to why people do not succeed has not as much to do with the media but with those you surround yourself with. You see people around you failing, you believe you will fail. You see people around you succeeding, you succeed. Self Fulfilling Prophecy . Yes the system of racial bias and degradation has and will continue to play an active role in the perceptions of people in their abilities to succeed. Nevertheless, mentality should never be used as a means to justify illegal behavior. You believe you can't succeed so you become a criminal. Hummm....

And to say that people are not privy to information by design is extremely problematic. Are the people designed improperly or the information? When you say people are stuck in the ghetto, I worry because that implies that there is no way to get out. Which is, I believe, to be untrue. What upsets me about your posts, not to be mean , is that it appears that "these people" have no control over their own lives. People have choices on whether they want to have children, use drugs, live where they live, work etc. Shouldnt they have a choice and role in revitalizing their communities? Removing drugs should be a community effort.

[AKA_Monet]

So one will get evicted if he or she or a family member is caught doing or selling drugs in a goverment housing project...

Does that include those people who are borrowing from a loan agency off an FHA or VA loan?

Or does that include those persons who reside in military housing?



Or why don't "they" just paint the law as it is? One based on discrimination and will not be implemented across the board... If you do it for the projects, then you do it with those persons that have government based mortgage securities and reside in military housing...

And I can tell you, the military housing in my city has just the same amount of problems as the projects do!!! They do many thangs on ship staterooms and bachelor's officer quarters... Hmmmm....

[straightBOS]

Originally posted by kitten03

People have choices on whether they want to have children, use drugs, live where they live, work etc. Shouldnt they have a choice and role in revitalizing their communities? Removing drugs should be a community effort.

Um, can I get an 'Amen'!
Personal Choice trumps all cards played.


Any person who enters the drug game KNOWS that the consequences of his actions will affect everyone around him. If he chooses to ignore those consequences, and everyone loses a home, then he has no one to blame but himself. True, enough, we own no ships or planes to bring in the product, but we must also own up to the fact that some of us do not have a problem with it because they choose the drug game as a livelihood. That, to me, is the deeper issue.

When, we own up to making wrong choices in life, and when we stop playing the blame game and accept the fact that there are penalties for wrong actions, then we can talk about who else may be at fault. If a drug dealer lets his gramma get evicted, then that is the burden the family must bear for poisoning its community. I do not know many people in this situation who do not have at least an inkling that something is amiss.

Maybe now, family members will lose the lethargy and become proactive when a fellow family memeber is obviously breaking the law. In a separate forum, I said that as a person in the ghetto at some point you realize that you will have to work 2, 3 or four times as hard as the next man. If you choose not to do that, then, you cannot blame anyone but yourself.

[librasoul22]

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
So one will get evicted if he or she or a family member is caught doing or selling drugs in a goverment housing project...

Does that include those people who are borrowing from a loan agency off an FHA or VA loan?

Or does that include those persons who reside in military housing?



Or why don't "they" just paint the law as it is? One based on discrimination and will not be implemented across the board... If you do it for the projects, then you do it with those persons that have government based mortgage securities and reside in military housing...

And I can tell you, the military housing in my city has just the same amount of problems as the projects do!!! They do many thangs on ship staterooms and bachelor's officer quarters... Hmmmm....

EGGGGGGGGGG-xactly! This is what I have been trying to get at all this time. The law, as are all other drug laws passed in the US, aimed at oppressing minorities. Plain and simple. My point is that those in the inner cities have a choice, true enough. They have been GIVEN a choice. The drugs have been placed in the ghettos, and mentalities have been formed. Now they have a choice. It isn't irrevocable, but it is gonna take a VERY long time for folks to realize their choice and eradicate this way of thinking and this way of LIFE.

[tammy-]

Originally posted by librasoul22


EGGGGGGGGGG-xactly! This is what I have been trying to get at all this time. The law, as are all other drug laws passed in the US, aimed at oppressing minorities. Plain and simple. My point is that those in the inner cities have a choice, true enough. They have been GIVEN a choice. The drugs have been placed in the ghettos, and mentalities have been formed. Now they have a choice. It isn't irrevocable, but it is gonna take a VERY long time for folks to realize their choice and eradicate this way of thinking and this way of LIFE.

I AGREE!!!!

I am sure they cannot wait to put more people of color in jail. They are only looking to search certain apartments/houses of people of certain SES and racial backgrounds.

THEY ALSO PLANT DRUGS- WHATS TO STOP THEM FROM PLANTING THEM IN YOUR HOME!

THAT LAW SUCKS!!!!!!

[AKA_Monet]

Hypothetically here:

If I fought in Special Forces as an enlisted man for this US of A and one of my battle wounds is a metal plate in my head--and I have severe neurological injuries which results in my inability to do meaningful and logic-related work, but I look normal???

So the headache pain medication the VA prescribes me costs a $$$$gazillion dollars not to mention the required psych care they OWE me for my military service--Why is it wrong for me to seek immediate pain suppression for ~$20 worth of crack since I can't AFFORD "Neprazol"--a $400 a month perscription? My pension is only worth that much from a country I defended???



Just asking...

[ClassyLady]

It seems to me if the government, any government not just the US, makes Act A illegal, then shouldn't those who perform Act A be punishable for their crime? I am not a fan of our government or our judicial system, but it's time to put the blame where it belongs. If you sell drugs then you deserve to be punished for your crime. If you allow people to sell drugs out of your house, you deserve to be punished for your crime. If you allow people to use drugs in your house, then you deserve to be punished for your crime. Point blank period.

I have known many people who started out in life dirt damn poor. I have known some who put their noses to the grindstone and made a way out. And, I have known some who decided to help oppress their own people by selling drugs. There are plenty of other alternatives to addicting your own people but some are just too afraid to work hard for what they want. In my grandmother's time, black people were much poorer than they are today. How many blacks in their 80s and 90s do you know who sold drugs to move on up? People were getting high back then too. And, how many elderly blacks do you know who cleaned houses, cared for other people's children, or "drove Miss Daisey" so that their children could go to college? A whole lot more isn't.

It is my opinion that the black community often acts as enablers to these "hustlers." Whenever Andre or Hakim gets arrested for selling crack, we holler about how it's the government's fault for putting here in the first place. When does it become Andre or Hakim's fault for selling it to his own people?

We need to start holding ourselves to a higher standard. When we start letting our children know that we won't accept such behavior, then it will cease to exist. I think it's about high time that we made examples out of those who commit such heinous crimes against our own people. For once, I would like to hear somebody say, "Andre is in jail because he sold crack. He was wrong for that and it's nobody's fault but his own."

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by ClassyLady
If you sell drugs then you deserve to be punished for your crime. If you allow people to sell drugs out of your house, you deserve to be punished for your crime. If you allow people to use drugs in your house, then you deserve to be punished for your crime. Point blank period.

It is my opinion that the black community often acts as enablers to these "hustlers." Whenever Andre or Hakim gets arrested for selling crack, we holler about how it's the government's fault for putting here in the first place. When does it become Andre or Hakim's fault for selling it to his own people?

We need to start holding ourselves to a higher standard. When we start letting our children know that we won't accept such behavior, then it will cease to exist. I think it's about high time that we made examples out of those who commit such heinous crimes against our own people. For once, I would like to hear somebody say, "Andre is in jail because he sold crack. He was wrong for that and it's nobody's fault but his own."

The poor will always be with us and we will always be responsible for our brothers and sisters... We are truly our brother's keeper... I may have worked my ass off for my "Father"--but "He" still killed the prize calf for "His" other wayward son... "He" said to me, that I will have everything "He" owns, but "His" son was lost, but now is found...

Who are you to judge so harshly without compassion? He who has not sinned, may he be the first to cast the first stone...

Addiction behavior has no logic to it... It is something that we humans do. The United States unfortunately criminalized it because it was too afraid of what happened to "its" woman and "her" generation--if you know what I mean...

Moreover, the Biblical text is plenty a fraught with what would now be considered "hallucinogens", "barbituates" and are illegal--"Cover me with hyssop", "Balm in Gilead", "Frankencense and Myrrh", "Annointed me with oil and wiped my feet"... Hyssop is a hallucinogenic herb, the Balm of Gilead is sap from a tree that has highly calmitive effects. This tree was given to the King of Solomon from the Queen of Sheba... True frankenscense and myrrh are spices from trees that grow throughout the Middle East and Africa. Their chemical properties are thought to cleanse the room of foul odors... The oil that Mary Magdelene used was one only reserved for kings and royalty. It added to the effects of reflexology permited when one washed feet. The oil was priceless and extremely difficult to obtain. If sold on the black market, one could make millions of dollars--so to speak. That is why Judas Iscariot cursed Mary Magdelene out for breaking that bottle...

I feel sorry for the people that use drugs. Even drug dealers use them sometimes. I remember the Go-Go tune from the UnCalled For Band--"There's no mistake for the neighborhood life... That's why I get high... To ease my mind..."

Dayum, if you are in the privacy of your own home and you had a hard day and choose to smoke pot, 'cuz you cannot drink alcohol--then what is wrong with that? Just because our Government decided that it is illegal, doesn't make it right... Our founding father's Declaration of Independance, Constitution and Bill of Riots--I mean Rights show that if I wanted to ease my mind with a little something-something and I ain't hurting nobody--then hey, I outta be able to do what I want... It's my body...

Now, pregnant crack addicts--I dunno. Chemical Substance Abuse won't be answered in this forum...

[librasoul22]

Some of you all are missing the big picture. On one hand you are saying I do not agree with everything the government says, yadda yadda yadda. But on the other hand you say well, since the government makes it against the law, it should be enforced. Which is it? Abide by the government or don't?

I do not condone selling drugs, nor do I condone using them, to a large extent. However, I do believe that it is bass-akwards for the US Government to use first manufacture drugs into the inner cities and later create harsh legislation against drugs as a tool for oppression.

When considering the drug problem on a whole, do not think about individuals (that's what is wrong with this nation now), think about the commUNITY at large.

[Riley]

Originally posted by librasoul22
Some of you all are missing the big picture. On one hand you are saying I do not agree with everything the government says, yadda yadda yadda. But on the other hand you say well, since the government makes it against the law, it should be enforced. Which is it? Abide by the government or don't?

It's not that we are contradicting ourselves, but if something illegal don't do it. If you choose to do not be mad at the consequences. It is similar to being the black sheep of the family. Everyone looks for you to get into trouble and when you do there are stiffer penalties. So why deliberately put yourself out there?

The same in this instance. If minorities are disportionately incarcerated, sentenced to life and death sentences, and subjected to higher scrutinty be the the law........why put yourself at risk to take a fall. I am sure we all know that this legislation will be aimed at poorer neighborhoods, but that is more of a reason to try to curb drug activites in your communities. If not then these neighborhoods will futher crumble.....How?
Ex. there is a neighborhood with lower middle class housing. This legislation is in effect. As a result several houses are now vacant. The houses are foreclosed and it takes six months for paper work to go through for the houses to be sold. The houses are sold lower that it is worth bringing down the values of the other occupied houses in tge area. Some people move out, some stay further damaging prop. values. The value of the overall community drops and and another community starts to go downhill.
Selling and using drugs may be a way of life for some but not for all. For those who choose otherwise teach your kids values, let them see there is more out there. Yes, the ghettos are designed to keep people there but you do have a choice to want more, and it starts when you are a child.

[Riley]

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
Hypothetically here:

If I fought in Special Forces as an enlisted man for this US of A and one of my battle wounds is a metal plate in my head--and I have severe neurological injuries which results in my inability to do meaningful and logic-related work, but I look normal???

So the headache pain medication the VA prescribes me costs a $$$$gazillion dollars not to mention the required psych care they OWE me for my military service--Why is it wrong for me to seek immediate pain suppression for ~$20 worth of crack since I can't AFFORD "Neprazol"--a $400 a month perscription? My pension is only worth that much from a country I defended???



Just asking...

You have a good point here. What the solution? Govt. reform. Before people have to get to that level the US has to take up the ideologies of other countries. Have universal Health insurance for everyone, but that won't happen b/c it is big buisness. The govt does not do anything unless it benefits itself. That even goes for its"own" people. There are many people who take illegal drugs for a variety of reasons. A lot of drugs have similar effects to regulated drugs. But just remember there are consiquences.

[kitten03]

Originally posted by librasoul22
Some of you all are missing the big picture. On one hand you are saying I do not agree with everything the government says, yadda yadda yadda. But on the other hand you say well, since the government makes it against the law, it should be enforced. Which is it? Abide by the government or don't?

The government produces the laws that are used to both keep people safe and oppress people at the same time. Is it right? no!But what's the alternative. Become an anarchist and live in the mountains. Someone send me a postcard if you do. It is fine to question the government. It is fine to disagree with the govt as well. I disagree with some laws and others I agree with. Is that a contradiction. I'm going to go with no. It's an opinion. Just like your view of what the big picture is. Everyone is different. So we dont have to agree but i think our concerns are the same in principle.


I do not condone selling drugs, nor do I condone using them, to a large extent. However, I do believe that it is bass-akwards for the US Government to use first manufacture drugs into the inner cities and later create harsh legislation against drugs as a tool for oppression.

We've established that the government is using drugs to oppress people. But people sure are giving them all the help they need to do it.

When considering the drug problem on a whole, do not think about individuals (that's what is wrong with this nation now), think about the commUNITY at large.

Individuals make up communities. Therefore, things must be examined from the inside out. Inside communities, there are people inside people there are issues etc. Somehow I dont wonder if these individuals are thinking about the community when they sell or use illegal drugs.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by kitten03


Individuals make up communities. Therefore, things must be examined from the inside out. Inside communities, there are people inside people there are issues etc. Somehow I dont wonder if these individuals are thinking about the community when they sell or use illegal drugs.

You are right that individuals make up a physical community... And communities are composed of ideas moreso than the people who reside in them...

In no way am I a legal expert. But some laws are made to be broken when the spirit of the law is unsound. It was the law that forced my Afrikan ancestors to be enslaved... It was the edict by President Lincoln, nullifying the official enslavement of Afrikans...

The incarceration rates are increased for people of color for a reason... The reason becomes quite explicit when you re-read the 14th amendment of the US Constitution...

Not everyone does wrong who is imprisoned. Some people are political prisoners--and that depends on your definition and interpretation... Look at the psychology of OJ Simpson. If he was any average Joe, he'd be the first bruh in the cage. But 'cuz he was a superstar and SOME folks found ways to pimp him off and make money, if he lived in jail, the "golden goose" would dry up...

Besides, have any of you EVER been merely ACCUSED of a crime? Once you are caught up into that psychotic profiling, it is extremely hard to get OUT without deep down hook ups. You MUST be BLESSED in order to find your way outta of prison, no matter if you goto trial or not... Those in government DO believe, with cyncism and sarcasm intact, that one is guilty before being proven innocent... It is no wonder why that Judge in Florida cursed out the social worker for not doing her job in the case of Rilya Wilson... Without connections, you would need to use Jedi Mind Tricks...

Here's a tough question to bake your noodle, based on folks blind, sheep-like mentality here:

Without any spiritual connection, whatsoever, why is murder wrong? You cannot use God, Jesus Christ, Allah, Buddha or Hinduism... Only secular reasoning... And and don't say because it's the LAW--laws are made to be broken... Why is murder wrong???

(I know why it is wrong, but that is because I believe in a Higher Power and the Universe--so secularly, in reality--I cannot come up with a good answer)

[librasoul22]

Here is the bottom line:
Everyone acknowledges that the government placed drugs in the inner cities. Everyone acknowledges that they have created drug legislation to deliberately oppress those in the inner city. With this in mind, those in the inner city are stifled from nearly every angle. It certainly IS a choice. But it is one that would NOT have been present if our government had not made it so.

As far as the government goes, we are not talking about every law, just those relating to drugs. I am saying that it is hard to fathom how one can condemn the government for oppressing its citizens, yet turn around and applaud it for the same thing.

As far as the community goes...no, the only alternative is not to go live in the mountains. You can see the government for what it is, its weaknesses and flaws, and exploit them. Then you can begin to change things. And you are correct, individuals do make up communities. But in order to change ANYTHING it is going to take an entire community. And I submit to you, that if the community is to be sound and strong enough to take on this task, it is not at all helpful if some members are supporting the government's obvious oppression. When you continue to tout these laws, that is what you are doing. Trust me, there are a PLETHORA of ways to rid our communities of drugs. And none of them involve the social control that is being forced upon us now.

AKA_Monet, you raise an interesting point. To what extent should we allow the government to dictate what is right and wrong? I do not think that we should live in a lawless society, don't get me wrong. But just consider our "rights".