Sororities at UA

[carnation]

Violetalum, if you've been lurking on GC for awhile, then you know that we don't take the flaming of respected members lightly. OTW has strong opinions on some issues, as we all do, but the point is that if we disagree we just say so--we don't flame someone--unless it is the V's, who have lost the right to any respect here.

OTW didn't claim to be an expert but she's entitled to her opinion. We Greekchatters come from all stages of the Greek life--some are collegians like she is and others are long time alums with daughters who are now Greek, such as you and I--but every day on this site, we learn something new or hear a new viewpoint. If we disagree, we can just state that but we surely don't have to use an ad hominem attack just to discredit someone else's view!

[finest_alum]

Ok, I just gotta chime in here.. not into the argument, but into the debate about someone on GC stating their opinion on a specific sorority...
JMO (PLEASE NOTE THAT!) but give me a BREAK!

If someone posts on this bulletin board that they want to know the reps of houses on a campus, and someone responds, all that respondent is giving is THEIR opinion. Rushee's are going to hear different opinions from all over.
They may use these opinions to form their own, but quite frankly, anyone that takes on another's opinion without evaluating against their own knowledge and experience is weak-minded anyways. Especially opinions posted by random individuals on the Web that they have never met!!!
Andk, heck, I WISH someone would have given me the lowdown on certain houses prior to my rushing.
When one is affiliating themselves w/ a group, they are deciding that they will be automatically perceived -by people who do not know them as an individual- a certain way because that group is perceived as such. I want to make sure I know what that perception is before I affiliate. "A man is characterized by the company he keeps."

I'm not saying those perceptions are fair, or even accurate, but they are there. Let's be realistic, folks.

[newbie]

OTW is the BEST!!!! One smart, funny lady . I'm so glad that she's a GC Moderator...she does her job well!!

[This message has been edited by newbie (edited May 02, 2001).]

[shopgirl]

I would like to say that I agree with a lot of what violetalum has to say. She really hit the nail on the head with a lot of her points about stating our opinions on this board OR being afraid to do so. Sometimes GC members do snap at posters for questions they have asked or answered.

In regards to OTW, she is a very active member of this message board who apparently takes her job as a moderator very seriously. I mean that in a GOOD way. However, there have been a few posts that could be interpreted as rude. For example, when I read OTW's response to daisyflower's post it really upset me. She states, "since you're not too vocal on this board, I'll excuse that comment."

Carnation...

You asked violetalum who SHE thinks she is for questioning OTW's antics, since OTW is an active and respected member on this message board. On the flip side though, who is OTW to excuse someone else's comment on this message board? Those sort of statements are enough to keep people from posting and from answering posts.

Again, we are all equal members of this community and have the right to ask and answer any question we so desire. That means that OTW can say whatever she wants...as she said she would...BUT she, along with everyone else, needs to respect what other people have to say too - such as daisyflower's statment.

I hope this makes sense to you all. I did not intend for this comment to be rude.

Greek Love,
Christina

[This message has been edited by shopgirl (edited May 03, 2001).]

[carnation]

Shopgirl--

I agree that we're all due our say, which was my point. However, there was no need for violetalum, who's a newbie at that, to make her first post ever by flaming a longtime member and moderator. She could've simply stated her viewpoint and left out the insults, which are--considering the diversity of the members here--relatively rare!

There's a huge difference between attacking someone's opinion or position and verbally attacking a person. For sure, I try my best at school, at home, or on this board never to do that--UNLESS THERE"S A WACKO ATTACK!!!

[ZTAngel]

So many GC members words have been interepted the wrong way. Especially people who are new the boards...they rarely get a chance to get to Senior Member status before someone snaps at them. I have only been a member since October and in this short time I have seen too many people stop posting due to people misinterepting their writings. Why do you think I stopped posting for so long? It's because I got snapped at one too many times for some of the littlest things. Unfortunately, our only means of communication is through our writings which can so easily be twisted into whatever the reader wants it to be. It's like our own sororities or fraternities....if we don't give some of the new members a chance, how will they grow to become senior members? Give them a break. I didn't intend for this to be rude so please don't interpret this the wrong way. I just hope you all understand where I'm coming from and try to give other GC members a chance to explain themselves before snapping at them.

[This message has been edited by ZTAngel (edited May 02, 2001).]

[33girl]

Originally posted by violetalum:
If one asserts herself as an authority, one should be an authority, and OTW said in a recent post that she knows little about NPC policy. Also, going through rush at a school with only one NPC sorority and several locals is quite different than going through rush at , say, a huge SEC school (NO I AM NOT FROM TEXAS), so some of your advice may not be as helpful as you think.

This was my problem with violetalum's post. rolltidesoon didn't ask a question about NPC policy, she asked what the groups are like in reputation. If she would have asked "do you need recs" and OTW would have said no because at her school you don't, that would have been valid reason to call her on it. But that wasn't the question, the question was about opinions.

Also, I don't think OTW's comment to daisyflower was unwarranted - df answered with a bit of an attitude ("I will give you the insight nobody seems willing to provide.") That almost sounds like an accusation that we want to withhold info. We don't - we just want rushees to go in with as clean a slate as possible and without inaccurate information.

Plus - prospectiverushee (post here more girl, I miss you!) directed rolltidesoon to the very lengthy UA rush thread in the rush forum. It covered everything a rushee needed to know. That should have been the end of the whole bloody thing.

Oh, while I'm here, I'll say it one more time: I think all these "what do you think of" and "what is XYZ like" threads should be banned/closed. They do nothing to contribute to discussion of Greek life and do even less to put a positive spin on it.

Your Friendly Neighborhood Thread Nazi

[rolltidesoon]

I am really sorry that one question started such a huge argument. I was honestly just curious about the sororities there. Trust me, I'm not the type to hear something from ONE person that I don't even know and assume that it's true. Also, 33girl, you said that there is very lengthy UA rush thread, but all I could find was one with 5 posts. If there is another, please let me know, I'm new to this board so maybe you know something I don't.

[This message has been edited by rolltidesoon (edited May 03, 2001).]

[33girl]

Originally posted by rolltidesoon:
Also, 33girl, you said that there is very lengthy UA rush thread, but all I could find was one with 5 posts. If there is another, please let me know, I'm new to this board so maybe you know something I don't.

I'm sorry - I honestly thought it was longer than that! I must have been thinking of the LSU thread. But from what some people have said the 2 are somewhat similar so it couldn't hurt to check that one out too.

[violetalum]

This my attempt at a politically correct, non-offensive just-my-opinion-and-you-don't have-to-agree-and-I-won't-get-mad-if-you- don't-,and sometimes my mood affects how I interpret things just like yours does you-friendly GC post--- I mentioned the LSU rush discussion in my second post. It is very good. Also, the reason I mentioned recs, NPC, etc. is that, while many of us went thru formal rush, we may have gone thru at small schools or schools where rush just wasn't that competitive, OR some of us may have gone thru rush at a school like Alabama where rush is HUGE, competitive, long and arduous and most girls had better have their "ducks in a row," so to speak, well before rush ever starts. We networked for 6 months trying to find alums from all of the sororities that were at my daughter's school. So I would assume that, if a young lady wanted to know about the sororities at Bama, she would also appreciate hearing about every part of sororities--recs, dress code, how panhellenic structures rush,whether legacy retention is relevant, activities, philanthropies as well as how each sorority is perceived. You may or may not want to be in the sorority that dances on the bar, but how are you going to find out reputations and other things like that during rush? The girls will be on their best behavior then, you can bet. And, as I also stated, you need to take what you hear with a grain of salt, but, if you consistently hear the same thing about a group, you can bet there is some truth to it. At a school like Bama that sort of thing is good to know, esp. when you may have to pick several sororities to cut after seeing them for 15 minutes during an open house where you are also seeing 20 other groups for the first time. I honestly meant no harm when I said what I did, I just don't think that people who post all the time and are well known on GC and aren't afraid to give their opinion realize how harsh they may sound at times.
After all, didn't you love that teacher in school who always said, "Don't be afraid to ask because there is no such thing as a stupid question.", as opposed to that teacher who had forgotten that we were there to learn and put you down if you asked a question. I do not know what else to say except I am sorry that I was misinterpreted and that some seem to think that I am Hitler, Idi Amin, and one of the "V"'s rolled into one. But like others I reserve the right to my opinion and will not change my principles for anyone. Anyway I've gotta go "lurk" somemore. Good luck on finals! I am pushing the "Submit Reply" button with great trepidation....Then I am going to duck and run for cover

[rolltidesoon]

Originally posted by violetalum:
may or may not want to be in the sorority that dances on the bar, but how are you going to find out reputations and other things like that during rush? The girls will be on their best behavior then, you can bet. And, as I also stated, you need to take what you hear with a grain of salt, but, if you consistently hear the same thing about a group, you can bet there is some truth to it.

Thank you for saying what I've been thinking! Like I've said MANY TIMES BEFORE, I'm not going to hear something and assume that it's true without giving the girls a chance. I know that rush at BAMA is competitive, recs are not a problem and I have several friends at Ole Miss who have given me many tips, and I KNOW that BAMA rush isn't nearly as brutal as Ole Miss. So that's not the type of info I'm looking for. I'm not looking for the most beautiful or popular sorority, that isn't important to me, BUT if there is a sorority that has a reputation for sleeping around, call me shallow, but no that's probably not the one I want to join. But trust me, if someone says, "Oh XYZ has the worst reputation" I'm definitely not going to base my opinion of that sorority on what one person said. Like V said, if you consistantly hear the same thing from many different sources, than odds are, it's true. I just wanted to get some different sources!

[PiPhiAlum]

I went to a midsize school in the south; I grew up in Germany and now live in New England; point being I have lived in many places and meet many people. I graduated from college over six years ago, so I by no means am an expert on today’s Greek Life. My knowledge is limited to my friend’s little sisters and brothers, my alumnae chapter, my family currently in college and my chapter alumnae letters. I have friends who went to college from California to Maine and South Dakota to Texas. We speak often and have so since we graduated from high school over ten years ago. Most are members of GLOs, some are GDI, I have listened to different views on Greek Life, from many different people, just as this board presents. The difference is, that if you are sitting at the campus cafeteria or your best friend’s couch when her big sister comes home from college and you ask some of the questions that are asked here, you are going to get open answers. You should still hear “keep an open mind,” “follow your heart,” etc, but you will also hear “ABCs are athletic,” “DEFs are the girls next door,” “GHIs are the prom queens,” I am sure you get my point. These young ladies who ask questions on here, obviously do not have someone to turn to, or they want more than just their cousin’s opinion. I thought what daisyflower said was interesting and her view only. I personally think that she should have included “Keep an open mind” and I am sure that ZTA and AOPi have positive points that would have been more appropriate. On the same note, no matter how much you tell people to be themselves; going through Rush is similar to a job interview, you are not going to show up at a party in cut-offs and a tank top. The same holds true for the GLOs, they are not going to offer a potential new member a beer or throw in JLo’s new CD and get up and dance. Everyone is going to have their clothes ironed, even when it is Philanthropy Day and they are in shorts and a Rush Week t-shirt, they are also going to be polite and put their best show forward. Unfortunately, you are not as an incoming Freshman at UA that is from Milwaukee, WI who is a Vegan and a practicing Mormon; going to know that “ABC” every Monday night after meeting goes to the Outback and then hits Senor Frogs. And again unfortunately at some schools, waiting to pledge your sophomore year is not necessarily and option, unless you are a member of the SA, Campus Tour guide, Business club, a cheerleader, etc.; my point is that you need to be very active and almost perfect your freshman year, with a high GPA. You can bet, if the sorority uses a point system, that the freshman ladies start off with the upper hand.

At my school, most of the sororities could not pledge you without a Rec; the more you had, the better. That said, if they wanted you, they would find someone to write you a Rec, even if that meant the night before Pref, they were on the phone to the local Alumnae Panhellenic or sorority chapter from your town, sending them out to talk with your hair dresser, or preacher, or second grade teacher, so they could invite you to Pref night. A dear friend of mine was a Pi Phi at Bucknell; she had never heard of a Rec until she meet me, eight years after she graduated from college. Every campus is different; every GLO is different between campuses. I am very new to this board and I have read several threads. It seems to me that the majority of people have good intentions when giving advice or opinions. The thing that other’s reading seem to be forgetting is that it is that person’s opinion only. I don’t think that attacking someone’s questions or opinions is necessary. There is such a thing as a dumb question, if you are asking it to be a jerk or to start s*&t. However, ignoring it keeps the fire from growing. Also, there are several threads on here that I believe that many people have started, because they are being inquisitive and would like to learn or understand. Just because you might think it is a stupid question, does not mean that the next person does. I have also seen a lot of responses jump on the negative bandwagon and make comments about how this thread has been done before “do you know how to use a search function.” The fact is I have used the search function. It can take forever you have to search each topic separately, under 150(+/-) forums. This board is here to help people who want to learn about the Greek Community and those that are Greek to meet new people, make friends and give advice, but that advice does not need to come at such a negative price.

If I state my opinion on here, it is only that, my opinion and it only comes from my experience as a member of Pi Beta Phi, at a midsize school in the south; where yes on occasion a girl was known to attend, to pledge a sorority that she could not get into at an SEC school and then transfer before her sophomore year.

As members of the Greek Community we have knowledge and possibly a bit of wisdom that can help these young ladies who are starting college, or are in college that did not have a successful rush, get what they want and what we have.

[veruca76]

Okay, I've been avoiding this debate but I want to go ahead and say something now. Basically a lot of the GC addicts who have been here for months keep saying that threads asking for opinions shouldn't exist. Despite your repeated insistence these questions continue to pour in throughout the summer as more and more young girls prepare for rush. Also, many other greekchat regulars and experienced alumnae have sounded in on the issue to say that these questions are only natural for these girls to wonder about and that we, as knowledgable sources, should try to help them. I think that all of the self appointed "thread nazi's" need to relax their stance a little.
I believe that these threads should be patrolled in the following ways:
First - is this a school that has been discussed ad naseum in the very recent past? i.e. - U. of Alabama. In that case the girls should be told, politely, to perform a search.
Second - blatantly tacky and disrespectful commments regarding any members of our NPC family will not be tolerated. However, one such post resulted in members of that chapter coming in to defend themselves and those girls have since become very active and respected members of this board.
Third - all advice should be tempered by the simple facts that the right house is the one you feel most comfortable at and to go in with an open mind. I still think that if someone has some opinions regarding sororities on a certain campus and can voice them tastefully and with a good measure of positivity they shouldn't be flamed for doing so.
Fourth - if you don't like a topic or someone is obviously trying to incite controversy - IGNORE IT!!!

There has been way too much fighting going on here about these topics. I would really just like to see all the in-fighting stop and some of just agree to disagree. That's all. Thanks.

[Jason03]

Here's an article about one girl's experience with Bama sorority rush. Check it out. http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/news/s...storypage.html

[KABillyMac]

Originally posted by OohTeenyWahine:
I'll say it before and I'll say it again...

I will not and shall not readjust my attitude to satisfy anyone.

I don't know where this person gets the idea that I'm pretty bummed when someone disagrees with me. I'm very much aware that there will always be people who won't agree with me.

I welcome ANYONE who has a beef with me to email me privately if you wish.

If you're looking for patience and tolerance you'll probably have to look elsewhere and won't find any from me...tough cookies.

I feel for the man that will marry you.