Will the Greek world ever desegregate?

[Rudey]

Maybe some of you read the New republic...if you don't it's a very good bit of literature, and although at times it's a bit too liberal for my taste, it has great writers. But anyway they ran a piece last week on the greek system at Alabama. I know the story has probably been discussed before but you may learn somethin new:

http://www.thenewrepublic.com/020402...rle020402.html

-Rudey
--I am man, hear me roar!

[shadokat]

UMGirl, I really commend you on making your own decisions and not letting a little slack get in the way of your choices. I went to a predominately white school (96%), and we had two African American women in our chapter. Both of them took a lot of heat for not joining the one NPHC chapter on campus, but they both were happy in our chapter. It's a shame this kind of thing happens, because I met a bunch of African American women working in the Student Union that I would've loved to have as sisters, but most of them were very adverse to doing it. I hope more women, both African American joining NPC and white women joining NPHC, will take chances and give it a try.

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by Rudey
Maybe some of you read the New republic...if you don't it's a very good bit of literature, and although at times it's a bit too liberal for my taste, it has great writers. But anyway they ran a piece last week on the greek system at Alabama. I know the story has probably been discussed before but you may learn somethin new:

http://www.thenewrepublic.com/020402...rle020402.html

Just once, I would like to read an article on Melody Twilley that doesn't mention the Jeep Cherokee her daddy bought for her! If there had been an article written on me when I rushed, I wonder how prominently my 1980 Toyota Tercel would have been featured?

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by KillarneyRose


Just once, I would like to read an article on Melody Twilley that doesn't mention the Jeep Cherokee her daddy bought for her! If there had been an article written on me when I rushed, I wonder how prominently my 1980 Toyota Tercel would have been featured?

LOL!!!! I hear ya, Killarney! And what about my '84 Honda Accord?

[SoTrue1920]

Rudey, thanks for that excellent link. I think it was very revealing with respect to student attitudes and the ways in which a "NOKD" (not our kind, dear) attitude prevails on both sides of the Black/White racial equation.

[SoTrue1920]

Originally posted by KillarneyRose


Just once, I would like to read an article on Melody Twilley that doesn't mention the Jeep Cherokee her daddy bought for her! If there had been an article written on me when I rushed, I wonder how prominently my 1980 Toyota Tercel would have been featured?

C'mon folks, let's not reduce this article to being about what Melody Twilley drives or doesn't drive. I think with respect to her surroundings (U of A where people in NPC/IFC groups generally come from a background of privilege) it was important to show that she had money, she came from privilege, and all things being equal (except her skin colour) she was exactly the same as the peer group she sought membership in. Maybe at your campus(es) status and money don't play as big a part in rush activities and where you end up, but at big Southern schools, who you are and your class status plays a big part in your acceptance.

Melody Twilley is a symbol. She's probably a very nice person, but she's a symbol of something greater, and I think we should try to remember that.

[Eirene_DGP]

I think what organization you pledge is based on a comfort level like some of you mentioned. If you are/were never exposed to any other race but your own, then you might be more hesistant to join an organization with people who are primarily a race different than you. I am an Afr. Am female and I could have seen myself as a KD because they are a cool group of females or even as a ZphiB because I truly believe they are women of class, but I chose to be different and join a multicultural sorority. It takes a certain type of person to be different and break the norm. Moreso than the race of the people in whatever org., you pledge because you BELIEVE in what they stand for.

[AOX81]

A couple years ago during a student organization fair an older black lady came up to me and asked if there were any African Americans in my sorority. I said, "no." She said, "why not?" My answer was simply I don't know why not. The school that I went to had a large number or African American students and it just seems to me that they just preferred to join Alpha Kappa Alpha or Delta Sigma Theta. Which I don't see anything wrong with that. I joined my sorority because that is where I felt comfortable at and I feel that is how everyone should look at it. I don't think you should look at it as a black/white issue. Different organizations have different values and standards, you have to think about why you want to join a particular sorority and if they are right for you. It doesn't matter to me what your skin color is, it is what is on the inside that counts!! And I truly believe that!

Our organization fair took place a couple of days ago and we had a ton of girls that were interested in signing up for rush, black and white. I hope our new pledge class is awesome!!!!!

Have a nice day

[Alias23]

SoTrue1920-

I was referring to integration more so than desegregation (though BOTH are still issues depending on the school/region) -- sorry I mis-typed. I agree with your comments about integration.
In reference to the article that Rudey posted, I also agree that we shouldn't take the reference to what type of vehicle she drives out of context. It was a great article, and I have a lot to say about it later when I have more time.

KillarneyRose and dzrose93-

Did you all have a point you were trying to get across about the authors mentioning the Cherokee? It seems that it may have rubbed you all the wrong way, being that it was the first and only thing you all mentioned on this subject. I'm just trying to understand why it stood out and why you all feel the way you do. Please help me understand.

Thanks.

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by Alias23
SoTrue1920-

I was referring to integration more so than desegregation (though BOTH are still issues depending on the school/region) -- sorry I mis-typed. I agree with your comments about integration.
In reference to the article that Rudey posted, I also agree that we shouldn't take the reference to what type of vehicle she drives out of context. It was a great article, and I have a lot to say about it later when I have more time.

KillarneyRose and dzrose93-

Did you all have a point you were trying to get across about the authors mentioning the Cherokee? It seems that it may have rubbed you all the wrong way, being that it was the first and only thing you all mentioned on this subject. I'm just trying to understand why it stood out and why you all feel the way you do. Please help me understand.

Thanks.

Alias,

The reason I made my comment (and I think Killarney made hers, although I won't speak for her on this), is because I feel that the whole Twilley incident was blown so far out of proportion. In talking to some people who have met Twilley, it became apparent that she quite possibly had an "agenda" to rushing - that she wanted to make some kind of statement as to how AA's are "treated" during NPC Rush at a Southern school. Through all of this, she made quite a name for herself, and in every article I've read, that Cherokee has been mentioned -- presumably to suggest that because she has a nice car, she should have been automatically granted entrance to an NPC sorority. The truth is, it doesn't matter what kind of car you drive, what part of the city you live in, or what your daddy does when you go through Rush. It's how the girls themselves perceive you and if they feel you would be a good "fit" in their organization.

To me, the author of the article, in mentioning all the material things that Twilley possesses, was trying to allege that the only reason she wasn't offered a bid was because of her race. The fact that so often gets overlooked is that there are MANY Caucasian girls who weren't offered bids either - and many of them also had nice cars and other material things. However, their stories and the make/model of their cars were never published in any newspaper or magazine.

And, the point that I was making about the Cherokee is that I (who attended a Southern university, by the way) didn't have to have a nice car to get a bid when I went through Rush. It wasn't even close to being an issue, so I think it's humorous when it pops up in every Twilley article I come across. That's all, really. The whole article was interesting, but that one tidbit struck me as funny.

[eightball]

I don't think so.

[FuzzieAlum]

Of course, I've heard about this story before, but I don't go to school there, and I wasn't involved in it. Still, I never got the impression she had an agenda, certainly not the first time she rushed.

But you know what, I think most rushees have an agenda. Some want to prove how cool they are by getting into the most "elite" chapter. I mean, we've seen prospective rushees post questions to that effect on here. Others want to prove that sororities are snobby or silly and go through as a joke. Some people desperately want to belong after not belonging in high school.

Now I'm not saying any of those are the best reasons for joining a sorority, but that hasn't stopped girls in ANY of those categories from getting a bid. I do understand that this is a competitive campus where lots of girls don't get bids. And maybe she was cut for reasons having nothing to do with race. I don't know, I wasn't there. But I don't think that having an agenda necessarily gets a rushee cut.

The one thing I think this article does show is that race means more some places than others.

[Alias23]

"The reason I made my comment (and I think Killarney made hers, although I won't speak for her on this), is because I feel that the whole Twilley incident was blown so far out of proportion. In talking to some people who have met Twilley, it became apparent that she quite possibly had an "agenda" to rushing - that she wanted to make some kind of statement as to how AA's are "treated" during NPC Rush at a Southern school. Through all of this, she made quite a name for herself" -- dzrose

Just like it is possible she had an "agenda," it is also possible that people assumed she had alterior motives because she told her story and because she was being used as an example in the movement to desegregate the Greek system at Alabama. The "name" she made for herself could have just been all in their heads. Besides, if she WAS trying to prove a point, instead of rejecting her because of it, wouldn't that be the perfect opportunity to judge her solely on her qualities to see if she was the right material and prove everybody wrong if she was? Why would you teach her a lesson by helping her prove her point?

"in every article I've read, that Cherokee has been mentioned -- presumably to suggest that because she has a nice car, she should have been automatically granted entrance to an NPC sorority. The truth is, it doesn't matter what kind of car you drive, what part of the city you live in, or what your daddy does when you go through Rush. It's how the girls themselves perceive you and if they feel you would be a good "fit" in their organization." -- dzrose

That's not true for all of them. It depends on the fraternity/sorority and what school you go to. Ideally, it's supposed to be the way you described, but it hasn't been achieved yet. If that's the way it was at your school, I'm glad. But at many large southern universities that's not the way it is, and it's not just in the south either. People of particular social status get preferential treatment all the time, in frats/sororities and in many other places as well. I don't think it was irrelevant to the article, it was just meant to create a picture of Twilley's background.

"To me, the author of the article, in mentioning all the material things that Twilley possesses, was trying to allege that the only reason she wasn't offered a bid was because of her race. The fact that so often gets overlooked is that there are MANY Caucasian girls who weren't offered bids either - and many of them also had nice cars and other material things. However, their stories and the make/model of their cars were never published in any newspaper or magazine." -- dzrose

You have a point, but to investigate potential racism you have to start somewhere. The question is, if you're not convinced in this situation, what would it take to prove to you that she was excluded because of race?

It's great that you're social status didn't affect your situation, but that's not true for everyone, especially when you're Black.

No, everything is not racism, but everything is not "not racism" either. With the track records of schools like Alabama, I'm sure you can understand why African-Americans keep eyes open for these situations.

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by Alias23
Did you all have a point you were trying to get across about the authors mentioning the Cherokee?....I'm just trying to understand why it stood out and why you all feel the way you do. Please help me understand.

Thanks.

Hi Alias23!

Aaaaagh! I just spent 20 minutes typing a reply and then I got booted so I'll just try and distill what I wanted to say because I have to get the kids tucked into bed!

Ok, first off I have no idea if Miss Twilley had an agenda or not. It is my gut feeling that she did not because rush is a giant pain in the butt and a lot of work for something if you don't really, really want it.

About the Cherokee...I guess it just amazed me that in each and every article I read about this young woman (five or six of them), the Jeep her daddy bought her was mentioned. Owning a nice car is not a prerequisite for membership in an NPC organization. Not at my public university, not at my biological sister's Ivy League school (she's 6 years younger than me and got the '80 Tercel when I graduated! lol). I know people who went to Ole Miss, UGA and UCLA, all of which have a brutal rush. They all ended up in sororities even though two of them drove clunkers and the third rode the bus.

The New Republic article about Miss Twilley's experience was very similar to the other ones I read. All of the authors gave a cursory mention to her impressive intelligence (a sentence or two about her graduating from the Alabama School of Math and Science) but chose to concentrate on things like her desire for her nail polish to match her dress, her affluence and her political affiliation. If they were trying to convince people how well she would have fit into an NPC organization, they should have interviewed her teachers, friends and minister. They should have concentrated more on her grades and extracurricular activities or any volunteer work she may do. THAT is what sorority sisters talk to rushees about, not how much their parents make or what car they drive.

Also, Mr. Zengerle did Miss Twilley no favors when he quoted her as saying, "If you have a need, you probably won't get in." when asked about financial aid for sorority dues. It's almost as if he's saying "Sorority girls are snobs and, as you can see, Melody Twilley is also a snob, ergo, she should have been extended a bid!" The sad part is that Miss Twilley was probably joking or caught off guard by this journalist when she made that statement but he put it in anyway because it made for juicy copy!

One last thing I would like to mention is that I honestly hope that she wasn't denied a bid because of her race. But, I would like to know more about the other women who weren't given bids before I could judge that. I know that Alabama rush is very, very, very competitive and that it is difficult for any sophomore to get a bid. I also know it's impossible without recs, but no mention has been made in any article I read about her having her recs in order.

Alias23, I hope that cleared things up for you a bit! If you would like to discuss this further please feel free to drop me a PM any time!

Best,
Tracy

[33girl]

Originally posted by Alias23
[BJust like it is possible she had an "agenda," it is also possible that people assumed she had alterior motives because she told her story and because she was being used as an example in the movement to desegregate the Greek system at Alabama. The "name" she made for herself could have just been all in their heads. Besides, if she WAS trying to prove a point, instead of rejecting her because of it, wouldn't that be the perfect opportunity to judge her solely on her qualities to see if she was the right material and prove everybody wrong if she was? Why would you teach her a lesson by helping her prove her point?

[/B]

This is, as my dear mother used to say, like wiping your a$$ with a hoop - just around and around. Maybe she didn't get in because she was black, and maybe she didn't get in because she rubbed everyone the wrong way and would have done so whether she was black,white, green or purple. Unless we look into the heads of every sorority sister from Bama, we'll never know.

All I know is, I've read some of the stories of rushees on here that really loved this or that house, or only got through first round and did not get bids - and these girls are EXTREMELY upset. The last thing they're thinking of doing is being interviewed about their experience for the school paper (not to mention national papers).