Transgender women in sorority life? - Page 2

Sister Havana · #16 06-12-2014, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anna7363

My big problem with this is at huge greek schools like U of I, Alabama, Flordia, etc... Schools that greek life is so big that you can't be socially involved on campus without being in a fraternity or sorority. Essentially what we are doing by telling trans people they are not allowed in is telling them they are not allowed to be actively involved on the campus.

I'm an Indiana alum, and I can tell you that you don't have to be Greek to be actively involved on campus there. That's one of the good things about a big school like that - there are so many options for involvement. At IU, there are over 750 registered student groups (this per the IU website) - and most of them do not require you to be Greek to get involved.

My sister went to Illinois, had absolutely no interest in going Greek, and still found plenty of things to do on campus.

thetalady · #17 06-12-2014, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anna7363

I mean don't you think this needs to get resolved eventually tho? Cause its not like these people are going away. Lets also not forget the fact we probably have a bunch of trans women in our sororities already. The only difference is we don't know they are trans but they still probably walk amongst us. And are just so afraid to tell us that we may never know they are trans

Fully transitioned at 18 years old? I call BS on this "question". We certainly do not have a "whole bunch" of trans women in sororities that have no knowledge of their situation. People don't live in a vacuum, dear. Just isn't happening.

I really think that you are doing nothing but trying to stir trouble with a completely fictitious story. Maybe save it for bed time.

anna7363 · #18 06-12-2014, 06:48 PM

@theatalady, I think your comment completely encapsulates the situation. All you people who are alumni and in nationals made these policies to keep trans women out of sororities on purpose. You are well aware that it is a very rare person who could have any chance of meeting all your set requirements. Maybe a dozen trans women on earth were born in a state where there birth certificates could get changed, is from a family that has 20,000 dollars to burn on surgery, and has a family accepting enough to transition under the age of 18.

Yes this did happen! You know why I care? Because I have a transgender sister who is 14 years old and to know she will not have the same opportunities in life I have had breaks my heart. That the insane requirements you people make will mean she can never join sorority life, she can never go to a woman's college, she may be raped out of spite because of attitudes like yours. I never said this girl was fully transitioned, I said no one really knows.

anna7363 · #19 06-12-2014, 06:49 PM

@thetalady, Oh and by the way, I am absolutely sure there are trans women (a few, definitely not a lot) in sorority life. It is almost a statistical impossibility that it hasn't happened at least once or twice.

amIblue? · #20 06-12-2014, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anna7363

@theatalady, I think your comment completely encapsulates the situation. All you people who are alumni and in nationals made these policies to keep trans women out of sororities on purpose. You are well aware that it is a very rare person who could have any chance of meeting all your set requirements. Maybe a dozen trans women on earth were born in a state where there birth certificates could get changed, is from a family that has 20,000 dollars to burn on surgery, and has a family accepting enough to transition under the age of 18.

Yes this did happen! You know why I care? Because I have a transgender sister who is 14 years old and to know she will not have the same opportunities in life I have had breaks my heart. That the insane requirements you people make will mean she can never join sorority life, she can never go to a woman's college, she may be raped out of spite because of attitudes like yours. I never said this girl was fully transitioned, I said no one really knows.

1. To your first point, it is a rare individual who has transitioned fully at 18. Most trans people I know waited until college or moving out of their family homes before they felt comfortable enough to begin the process of transitioning. Everything that goes along with transitioning would make the importance of sorority membership pale in comparison. I would say this about anyone pursuing any major life change. Parenthood. Marriage. Insert big life event or change here.

2. You should have just come out with this story instead of fabricating a story about the trans woman that caused a mean minority of your sorority to violate your rules for voting on members. Unless this is a fabrication as well, and then you might as well be honest.

anna7363 · #21 06-12-2014, 07:12 PM

I'm kind of disappointed that the response that has come from everyone is essentially to call me a liar. If that is the reality you choose to accept then there is nothing I can do to convince you all. I never said its a common thing to transition at this point and I didn't use my sister as a defense for the girl who was rushing because its not my place to out her. She can come out one day when she is ready. Not when I do it for her.

33girl · #22 06-12-2014, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anna7363

@theatalady, I think your comment completely encapsulates the situation. All you people who are alumni and in nationals made these policies to keep trans women out of sororities on purpose. You are well aware that it is a very rare person who could have any chance of meeting all your set requirements. Maybe a dozen trans women on earth were born in a state where there birth certificates could get changed, is from a family that has 20,000 dollars to burn on surgery, and has a family accepting enough to transition under the age of 18.

Actually, no, I think when these policies were made back before any of us were born, they were made to keep men and high school girls out of sororities. Transgender people weren't even on the radar. It's something that will be addressed more and more as the years go on, I'm sure.

snowflakemom · #23 06-12-2014, 07:33 PM

First, you need to let us know if your sorority is a local, NPC, NPHC, professional etc. and what country you are in (for the Title IX rule). Otherwise we don't know what guidelines apply.

Second, something in this situation doesn't ring true to me. You had this situation in your sorority AND your 14 year old sister is transgender? Maybe it's just my part of the country but transgender isn't that common in young people.

thetalady · #24 06-12-2014, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anna7363

@thetalady, Oh and by the way, I am absolutely sure there are trans women (a few, definitely not a lot) in sorority life. It is almost a statistical impossibility that it hasn't happened at least once or twice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anna7363

Lets also not forget the fact we probably have a bunch of trans women in our sororities already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anna7363

I am absolutely sure there are trans women (a few, definitely not a lot) in sorority life. It is almost a statistical impossibility that it hasn't happened at least once or twice.

OK, so is it "a few", "not a lot", "a bunch" or "one or two"?

What was your purpose with this tirade? What did you think you were going to convince all of us to do? Do you think if you scream and act nasty, stomp your feet and call us names that the whole sorority system would apologize & change because you demand it? Let us know how that works out for you.

I still think you are a big, stinkin' liar, so angry that you make vile and unwarranted accusations. Now throw your flounce and slam the door on your way out.

AGDee · #25 06-12-2014, 07:45 PM

Title IX is a law, passed by the US legislature and signed by the President. Unless we want all our organizations to go fully co-ed, we are unable to initiate someone who is biologically male. We didn't make the law except that we did fight to keep our single gender status. It is unfortunate, but until someone was fully transitioned, we could not initiate them.

Sen's Revenge · #26 06-12-2014, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee

Title IX is a law, passed by the US legislature and signed by the President. Unless we want all our organizations to go fully co-ed, we are unable to initiate someone who is biologically male. We didn't make the law except that we did fight to keep our single gender status. It is unfortunate, but until someone was fully transitioned, we could not initiate them.

That is not at all what Title IX addresses, AGDee. Title IX does not dictate that a sorority is forbidden from initiating men. Social sororities are EXEMPT FROM Title IX rules.

Title IX says, in essence: "No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving federal financial assistance."

If a chapter of a sorority wanted to accept a transgender woman, they would be subject to the rules of the sorority, not Title IX rules.

To the original poster: I feel you. Keep fighting. The battle will not be won on GreekChat, but it will, indeed, be won.

ggforever · #27 06-12-2014, 07:53 PM

I am not saying there are no transgenders in houses, but on campuses with BIG greek systems, recommendations are mandatory to get into a house. There would probably be some indication on the rec as activities and probably to gender re-assignment surgery. I am also skeptical about this post as I cannot imagine an 18 year old would have already completed the needed surgeries.

Nanners52674 · #28 06-12-2014, 07:55 PM

Look I'm about as liberal as it comes especially on gay rights and Transgender etc...

I see a sorority saying no to a Transgender person not because she's Transgender but because according to the school and legally speaking they are still a man. I wouldn't expect a college women's sports team to have a Transgender male to female athlete.

There are some things in life where your gender matters, and this situation is one of them.

It's not just sororities grappling with these issues. Colleges still haven't figure out how to handle it in terms of housing and bathrooms. There was a big story out of Smith earlier this year about admitting a Trans student.

AOII Angel · #29 06-12-2014, 07:58 PM

AGDee is right. Our hands are tied. Future generations of transgender kids that are accepted at an early age and are allowed to change their birth certificates will probably get to join the group of their choice. Time will tell. I agree there are transgender sisters in the NPC as we speak, but they are F to M and joined a sorority.

amIblue? · #30 06-12-2014, 08:18 PM

On a related point, would a physician be willing to perform gender reassignment surgery on a minor? Obviously, parental permission would be a requirement (just as it would be for any medical procedure), so I'm just wondering what the ethical implications are in performing such a significant procedure on an individual who is still growing and maturing. Some of the trans people that I'm friends with don't want to fully transition (for various reasons). What might sound great to a 15 year old may not sound good for a 25 year old. Or it might still continue to sound good 10 years later, and a decade has been lost living with the wrong biological sex.