Competitive? Or a Different Term?

[HQWest]

I may have figured this out yesterday while my husband was watching "Legally Blonde."

At my chapter, we used to have an unfortunate group of PNMs that would walk in expecting the chapter to hand them a "life on a platter". It got to be really hard to talk about what they would bring to the chapter?

I think that there are still some girls coming through that are expecting to be Elle Woods right off the bat the first day. They don't necessarily see the work that it takes to run a chapter - any chapter. In a smooth, well-oiled (moneyed) "top" chapter, those things all look easier. In a chapter that is struggling, someone (or hopefully someones ) has to put a lot of work in, but can still have a lot of fun, and that chapter can do a lot that a loose group of friends cannot.

On a big campus with 16-18 big chapters, there are still niches. People from certain hometowns or high schools group here or there. Legacies stick with their legacy chapters. People in certain majors group here or there, but like KSUViolet said with that much variety - you should be able to find one where you can make a home. Plus, you should be able to leave it better than you found it.

On a smaller campus with only 6 or 7 chapters, I think the differences between the haves and have nots (or made its and working on its) are more obvious. The girls that want to walk in and be Elle - don't get the expected fairytale ending to recruitment, so they walk.

But really now - if that's all it took for them to quit, would they have made a superstar sister or a leader for the chapter?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by HQWest

On a big campus with 16-18 big chapters, there are still niches. People from certain hometowns or high schools group here or there. Legacies stick with their legacy chapters. People in certain majors group here or there, but like KSUViolet said with that much variety - you should be able to find one where you can make a home. Plus, you should be able to leave it better than you found it.

In addition to what you've mentioned, most women still have options throughout recruitment when there are more chapters. At Illinois, there are about five chapters that are roughly on par at the bottom of the recruitment strength game, so even the PNM's who don't shine as much are likely to have 2 or 3 pref parties to attend. Psychologically, going to three prefs and choosing which one to rank first is VERY different from attending one pref and feeling like this is all you have left.

That's why the situation Carnation is describing is so amazing to me. You would think that there would be some selling points beyond the top three chapters, and women who still had three or more options would be able to see that.

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

The recruitment is so tough because it's a gauntlet, with women thrown to the side by groups they've been raised to believe are the only groups worthy to belong.

This, YES, YES, YES! Especially as SO MANY legacies come through competitive schools, enough to fill two or even more New Member classes. As a woman raised to pledge a certain GLO, I can say I know that it was a disservice to me to expect me only to pledge that particular GLO. My daughters are being raised to look for THEIR home, not mine. I hope they will be Thetas one day, but mainly I just want them to be happy.

[BraveMaroon]

Originally Posted by HQWest

In a smooth, well-oiled (moneyed) "top" chapter, those things all look easier. In a chapter that is struggling, someone (or hopefully someones ) has to put a lot of work in, but can still have a lot of fun, and that chapter can do a lot that a loose group of friends cannot.

This, this, this!

Back in the day, we had to bust our butts during rush for every single pledge we brought to the house on bid day.

And I loved it. I got to do all kinds of things I wouldn't have gotten to do in a bigger "top" chapter.

And not only did we have a killer sisterhood, it prepped me for the real world far better than being part of a "machine" house would have.

So rather than competitive, I'd call this situation Unrealistic Entitlement, though Stupid Bitch Heaven has a nice ring to it, too.

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by BraveMaroon

So rather than competitive, I'd call this situation Unrealistic Entitlement, though Stupid Bitch Heaven has a nice ring to it, too.

Oh yeah, this too (ROFLACB)!

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by MaryPoppins

Oh yeah, this too (ROFLACB)!

Bless their hearts! Well, if that's what it takes to keep the bitch factor/ drama queen quotient down!

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

In addition to what you've mentioned, most women still have options throughout recruitment when there are more chapters. At Illinois, there are about five chapters that are roughly on par at the bottom of the recruitment strength game, so even the PNM's who don't shine as much are likely to have 2 or 3 pref parties to attend. Psychologically, going to three prefs and choosing which one to rank first is VERY different from attending one pref and feeling like this is all you have left.

That's why the situation Carnation is describing is so amazing to me. You would think that there would be some selling points beyond the top three chapters, and women who still had three or more options would be able to see that.

Granted it was a long time ago, but at Illinois there was definite status attached to being Greek. I don't think as many PNMs had the feeling that pledging a lower-tiered house was a worse option than being a GDI. The first question asked when you met someone new on campus was always, "what house are you in?" and if you said "I'm not Greek" the response was, "why not?" The social structure was:
1. The 3 queens
2. A mid-tier sorority
3. A lower-tier sorority
4. GDI

I think the problems occur at schools where being in a "lower-tiered" sorority is worse than being independent.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

The social structure was:
1. The 3 queens

Did anyone else see this and start singing "we 3 queens of Orient are..."?

Originally Posted by BraveMaroon

This, this, this!

Back in the day, we had to bust our butts during rush for every single pledge we brought to the house on bid day.

And I loved it. I got to do all kinds of things I wouldn't have gotten to do in a bigger "top" chapter.

And not only did we have a killer sisterhood, it prepped me for the real world far better than being part of a "machine" house would have.

So rather than competitive, I'd call this situation Unrealistic Entitlement, though Stupid Bitch Heaven has a nice ring to it, too.

My biggest choice was between the group I joined and another where life would have been comparatively easy as far as bringing in pledges. However, as soon as I went there during rush, I could tell I wouldn't be happy there. They were all SO gung ho on their sorority, to the point of suffocation. When pledging started, and one of their pledges told me all she was going through (not hazing, but just a real pressure to make the sorority the center of your life and jettison everything else), it just confirmed for me I had made the right decision.

Those girls joining the "top 3" at carnation's school may not terminate from the group because it's giving them what they want socially, but I would bet there are members who are chafing under the requirements.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Honestly, EVERY campus is competitive in its own way. As another poster pointed out, the vast majority of women who participate in recruitment, no matter where they go, will receive a bid if they maximize their options. What makes it "competitive" is how hard it is to get the bid from the group that everyone wants.

This is a question to anyone who knows - at the kind of schools where Greeks don't exist and the college randomly assigns people to be in this or that house, isn't there still (even if it changes from year to year) some sort of tier structure or pecking order? I mean, that's just the nature of life.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

Granted it was a long time ago, but at Illinois there was definite status attached to being Greek. I don't think as many PNMs had the feeling that pledging a lower-tiered house was a worse option than being a GDI. The first question asked when you met someone new on campus was always, "what house are you in?" and if you said "I'm not Greek" the response was, "why not?" The social structure was:
1. The 3 queens
2. A mid-tier sorority
3. A lower-tier sorority
4. GDI

I think the problems occur at schools where being in a "lower-tiered" sorority is worse than being independent.

Ha, I think that was only among Greeks. My dorm floor was mostly athletes, and they couldn't tell a Sigma from a Lambda.

But yes, there was, overall, a sort of Greek vs. GDI mentality. I think one reason is that, contrary to 33girl's example upthread, living in the chapter houses at Illinois + paying social dues was pretty comparable to other living options. So, there was rarely a financial reason not to go Greek, and those of us who did couldn't understand why others wouldn't do it.

I wonder what the fraternity scene is like on the campus in the OP. Carnation, care to elaborate on that?

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

I think the problems occur at schools where being in a "lower-tiered" sorority is worse than being independent.

I can't think of a place where that is the case and fits Carnation's criteria in the OP. IMHO the number of schools where "being in a "lower-tiered" sorority is worse than being independent," in the South would be scarcer than hen's teeth. If I am wrong please do enlighten me.

[ProudandTrue]

Originally Posted by 33girl

This is a question to anyone who knows - at the kind of schools where Greeks don't exist and the college randomly assigns people to be in this or that house, isn't there still (even if it changes from year to year) some sort of tier structure or pecking order? I mean, that's just the nature of life.

Do you mean a campus like Notre Dame where your social life is heavily determined by what dorm you live in?

[KSUViolet06]

^^^ND is the first school I thought of.

Students will create a pecking order with ANYTHING. The Ivies and the pecking order of their acappella groups come to mind also.

[southbymidwest]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

^^^ND is the first school I thought of.

Students will create a pecking order with ANYTHING. The Ivies and the pecking order of their acappella groups come to mind also.

ND and its dorm system is also what came to mind right away.

And yes, the pecking order is alive and well until people don't care about it any more and drop out of the competition. Heck, GCB, as discussed on another thread, is all about it only 20 years +/- later.

[KSUViolet06]

^^^Not to hi-jack, but I wonder this about the a cappellas.

You said "initiated." Does that mean once you join one, you're bound to it? Can you leave a group to join a better one (ex: you just realized that your entire "class" in the group sucks and that XYZ is killer?)

And is the desirability of an a capella determined by the talent of the people in it? Or something else? Looks? Caliber of shows they do?