Someone to tell your chapter about before recruitment

[justamom]

Had to laugh at that one mmcat-especially with that little smiley!

[ladybug1116]

Originally posted by justamom
I have always heard that abuse of an animal by a child is one of THE most important signals of serious mental illness. Also, I thought in a study they found that the most violent criminals had been observed or at least admitted committing this act.

justamom you are absolutely correct. At the couseling center where I interned we had to take a complete biopsychosocial history of all of the adolescents that came in. Included in the questions was history of animal abuse....it was really sad

[valkyrie]

Oh, I just can't leave this topic alone...

I completely agree with carnation and aggieAXO. It sounds like this girl has serious mental problems and has gotten no help from her parents. If her parents think she can do no wrong and have made excuses for her outrageous behavior, they have NOT gotten her any help because they don't think she needs it. Therefore, she has not dealt with any of the underlying mental problems that have made her think that it is okay to torture and kill an animal (and get into fights with others).

If the cat abuse happened when she was in eighth grade and I'm assuming that now she is a senior in high school, that was ONLY FOUR YEARS AGO. That is not much time in one's life, especially if she has not gotten help. She needs SERIOUS help, much more than just a therapy session once a week or whatever. If I were her parents, I would've thrown her ass into residential treatment so fast after the cat incident, because I would realize that she is out of control and dangerous to herself and (more importantly, IMHO) others. It seriously bothers me that parents can sit around and make excuses for a child who does something so absolutely terrible.

I'm sorry to go on so, but I do have some background in this area. I worked with kids with behavior disorders at a residential treatment facility several years ago, and some of these kids came to us with such issues that there was no way their parents alone could help them, and actually, their parents were the ones who taught them the dysfunctional behavior in the first place. It was amazing, too, how many parents were either in denial or who thought that the kids needed help but they didn't. Excuse me, but do you think that if you raised a kid to burn down a library or suffocate puppies in a cooler (yes, it happened) that YOU are not in need of counseling also? Oh, it made me so mad.

I have also studied animal cruelty law, and I can tell you that animal abuse is a HUGE problem. The way to get most people to understand that it is a problem is to point out that many serial killers start out torturing animals, or that, for example, many abusive men try to control and terrify their mates by torturing and abusing their pets. However, I think that it is our responsibility as human beings to ensure the fair and kind treatment of animals everywhere -- animals should never be abused because they feel pain and are living creatures, and it is OUR DUTY to stop and prevent the abuse.

AggieAXO, I really admire you for what you are doing. I think that animal abusers should go to jail, and I hope to, at some point in my career, have the ability to lobby for stronger animal cruelty laws and better enforcement of them.

[aggieAXO]

Thank you Valkyrie, I appreciate your comments, BTW I just went up to the clinic I work at and the cat that got her head kicked and arm broken is doing very well she is out of her coma and is no longer seizuring, though she is blind and am not sure if she well recover from this but we will find her a good home-a happy ending to a horrible event. The kitten that got thrown out the window on the highway last week (didn't mention this one but guys this kind of stuff happens every week and it makes me sick to my stomach-these people need to go to HELL) is also doing well.

[aggieAXO]

wow mmcat a 19 year old kitty-that is great Hope she has many more birthdays to come.

Karen

[DukeBlue]

Oh, God, stories of animal abuse make me cry...and make me SO ANGRY. I'm seriously thinking of becoming a veterinarian, because I love animals so much and seem to have some sort of trusting connection with them, and when I hear of such screwed up people hurting those helpless creatures, it makes me see red.

Gah.

[ZTAngel]

Let's see....this girl skinned a cat at the age of 13. She did this when she still had a young, developing mind. Obviously, something must've happened to her in her past to cause her to become that violent. And I don't think that someone that sick can all of the sudden just change for the better. It takes YEARS of intensive therapy. And, just as justamom said, children who abuse animals usually grow up to have severe mental illnesses. For instance, Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy! I am all for you writing a no-rec on this girl. If something were to happen, and she had your letters, I think you'll be kicking yourself.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

You are given the power of a no-rec for a reason. In my opinion, you are obliged to write it.

[SigKapSweetie]

If that girl were trying to rush at my school, I would warn every friend I've got in the greek system. People like that should be committed, not initiated! No-rec her, and voice your knowledge VERY strongly, so your sisters know exactly what they might be getting themselves into.

[James]

Ok, all of you self appointed arm-chair Sigmeund Freud's in the room, do you mind if we review your various but similar diagnosis of this human being's mental dysfunction? And I hope you all haven't cashed your checks yet . . .

Hey, I was with you, reading along and going "rah rah" imprison her or burn her at the stake. But then I thought about it . . .

One of the responsibilities of personal or organizational leadership (and maybe human maturity) is to be able to check our emotional gut or intuitive reaction againt a good thinking criteria to allow for better decision making.


So this is what I reread in light of having to make a decision:

1. Maggieaxid used to baby sit a kid that thought was very brattty, and acted obnoxious and spoiled. (I recall running away from my baby sitter once because I couldn't get my way but was enticed back for dinner, luckily she didn't tell my Father). And has held that opinion of her since that time. She has also heard bad rumours second hand about her (I assume second hand because of the age difference.)

Bad rumours: She may have skinned a stolen cat. She got into fights in school and around the neighberhood. She may have keyed her ex-boyfriends car.

Authors note: For those of you who think keying a car is less serious, you are wrong. ITs psychotic behavior that should be punished by death. Keying a man's paint job is evil. But I guess we all have different buttons to push.

Everyone here is pretty credulous.

A 13 year old girl stole a cat and then had the strength to hold a cat in place and forcibly remove all its skin and fur with some less than razor sharp blade without being scratched to pieces? I am not sure I could do that now. But I guess a future psychotic might have access to such incredible brute strength. Or be intellegent enough to engage in ritualistic butchery by sedating and then restraining the animal first. Of course if the little monster were smart enough to do that she would be smart enough not to get caught. Remember, no one catches those budding psychopaths till much later. I might believe she partially shaved it, and I might definitely believe she might have tried to keep her neighbors cat.

Note: There are three indicators of sociopathic behavior and all must be present: torturing animals, wetting the bed, and pyromania. Not all people that did these things become criminals, many stay on this side of the law by seeking jobs of authority and control such as law enforcement.

Many people have a combination of those traits. Bed wetting, playing with matches, or playing with the parents lighter etc. But there are degrees that are important.

As far as fights go, what are we talkiing about, knife fights yesterday? Or the kind if fist fights a tom girl might get into like a boy? The kind that boys get into all the way through college and beyond?

Most of the rest of the posts are meaningless because they are based on the horror of mentally seeing a cat skinning and predicated on the belief that this girl cruises through the woods looking for small furry animals to ritualy abuse in the finest tradition of Dr. Evil! Or as some have you compared her: the Jeffrey Dahmer's and Ted Bundy's of the world.

Again she must have been superhuman because giving my cat a bath used to spark major feline rebellion.

It sounds like the girl isn't very popular and is certainly not well liked in some circles, although she thought well enough of you, maggieaxid to send you an email asking for your adivce and help.
It also sounds like people have enjoyed spreading some rumours behind her back, engage in a little character assassination. We should all know by now how bad that can be and how even little things can grow and become viscious and cruel.

OBviously you are closer to the situation than we are but if I can think of some of these arguments in a couple seconds, they are pretty obvious. So its up to you how you would vote and maybe more importantly what rational reason you use to come to a decision.

One of the questions I'll ask myself if I don't like someone but have to judge them is, "what would be my approach if they were my best friend? Or if I barely knew them?" I take the opposite with my good friends in business settings.

So if you are interested in being fair I would say this: If you have honest first hand recent and compelling information that makes you belief that this girl is a direct physical danger to other human beings then you should proactively right a no-rec.

If not, you have a dilemna, especially because you have admitted to us you don't like the girl regardless of your justification. Under this condition I would say that you should just tell her honestly that you don't feel comfortable writing a rec for someone that you don't have a current personal relationship with that lets you judge them on today versus yesterday.

As for many of the rest of you, I would hate to be tried in the Court of Public Opinion if you were my judges and my prosecutor wanted to paint me badly. Many of you don't ask many questions, look deeper, seek clarification, or even qualify your comments based on the possibility that the person relating a story to you might be partly or totally wrong. All someone would have to do is come on here and say that James kicked a cockerspaniel to death, it was the talk of the town, and I would become the evil one.

Thank you for your time.

James

Originally posted by maggieaxid
Alright, I just found out that this girl I used to babysit for, who lives in my neighborhood and have known for most of my life will be going to Elon. She just emailed me to tell me all about how she wants to be in a sorority and if i can get her in ect....
the thing is is that I can't stand this girl. She is a brat and a snob and always has been. There are also a lot of things that I know that she has done that I, and many other people haven't been to keen on....example: one time she stole this old woman's cat and when the old woman went to her parents about it, she skinned it and then gave it back...she is crazy!
Is it wrong for me to write a "Don't let her into our chapter" reccomendation?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I almost agree with you, except for one thing. When considering women we do or do not want in our organization, reputation is very important. Granted, sometimes a woman gets a rep she does not deserve. However, we consider it anyway.

For example, if a known slut rushes your chapter, you do not pledge her. You don't investigate whether she has actually slept around. Even if she had a close friend in the house that could dispute all the rumors, you still wouldn't pledge her if it made the organization look bad.

[lilsnakeyk]

Wow. That is all I can really say.

I agree with reputation being a big part of how we recruit. As a NPC sorority on campus, we stake our recruitment and future recruitment for that matter on our reputation.

I would give her a moral objection. Which in the terms my chapter uses, means any girl that if made a member of your sorority, would make you not want to be a member anymore. Enough said.

{ HUGS }

It will all work out.

Greek Love,

Lil Snakey K

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by James
All someone would have to do is come on here and say that James kicked a cockerspaniel to death, it was the talk of the town, and I would become the evil one.

If you DID kick a cocker spaniel to death, you would be The Evil One.

I am (and I think everyone else is also) taking maggieaxid at her word and offering our suggestions and ideas based upon the information she provided. I assume that she is telling the truth, and I what I try to do here on greekchat is offer my input based upon the information provided to me. It is not my job to be the "trier of fact" and get both sides of the story here; it is my job to respond as I see fit to what people have posted. So, if this person did what maggieaxid said she did, I would not want to be her sister, and I would want someone who knew these things to warn me ahead of time. That is the answer to the question that was asked.

As for my ranting about animal abuse -- this is a VERY important issue in our world, and I will take any chance I get to say something about it.

[ZTAngel]

I do agree with much of what you said James. But, back to DeltaBaby's post. Reputation is one of the biggest factors when considering someone for a sorority. If a sister stands up and says, "I personally know this girl and she's a slut" we will most likely go with what she said and cut the girl. We meet these girls for only a couple of days and for only 15 minutes. There is no way to determine in that time if the girl is a slut or if she's mentally stable. So, we base our opinions on people we know and trust...our sisters. This is why chapters have survived so many years...because we have trusted our sisters and cut girls that could be potentially threatning to the chapter. Now, whether this girl really did skin a cat...I don't know. But, should I take the risk of letting her into my sorority? No way. What happens if maggieaxid was right and this girl has another incident? Not only will it make maggie look awful but the axid chapter as well. It only takes one girl to create a reputation for the chapter....good or bad.

[33girl]

In my opinion this doesn't have a bloody damned bit to do with the precious "reputations" of a chapter...if this little Ms. Dahmer to be came through rush, I would be afraid for my sisters' SAFETY. I mean would you want to live with someone who could commit a crime like that? "Reputation" would be the LAST thing on my mind.

Let's think about what really is important here people...taking care of each other and protecting each other, not something as shallow as what other people think.