Why doesn't NPC deal with the lack of info?

[carnation]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

You don't want to force everyone to maximize because it only artificially inflates quota. Sure, everyone might match quota, but half of Icky Iota's NMs declining on the spot doesn't really help them. If only the women who would give Icky Iota a chance rank them on their MRABA, quota will be brought down to earth. Not to mention, it's very disappointing to hear that you match quota and only a fraction show up to bid day. I'd think a chapter would rather just have the NMs who are coming to bid day match.

What. She. Said.

Plus for the past several years, I keep hearing of massive dropout rates in the new member classes on several competitive campuses. Many of us ascribe a lot of this to practically forcible maximizing.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Are we really recruiting "hormone-driven twits"? What does that say about sororities?

I'm serious. Do you really think those are the women we are recruiting? I would have been very offended to be referred to in that way and don't think of college women in that way.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

Are we really recruiting "hormone-driven twits"? What does that say about sororities?

I'm serious. Do you really think those are the women we are recruiting? I would have been very offended to be referred to in that way and don't think of college women in that way.

It's an exaggeration, but recruitment is a very busy, stressful week, and it can certainly bring out the worse in women on both sides.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

Are we really recruiting "hormone-driven twits"? What does that say about sororities?

I'm serious. Do you really think those are the women we are recruiting? I would have been very offended to be referred to in that way and don't think of college women in that way.

The person - who for me- coined the phrase was a 21 year old senior chapter president during recruitment when discussing the merits of a 32 year old married with 2 children PNM. She questioned why the woman would want to associate with " a bunch of hormone driven twits." I credit her with being an astute observer of her own generation...and I quote her often.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by Titchou

The person - who for me- coined the phrase was a 21 year old senior chapter president during recruitment when discussing the merits of a 32 year old married with 2 children PNM. She questioned why the woman would want to associate with " a bunch of hormone driven twits." I credit her with being an astute observer of her own generation...and I quote her often.

Do you really think this is an astute observation of this generation? I'm not trying to pick a fight. I am honestly surprised that we as Greek women would want our members to be referred to in such a manner. It flies in the face of everything that our national organizations are striving to promote. Just look at the taglines the various NPC groups are adopting and people have in their signatures. It is about being strong women of purpose. Worded in different ways, but that's the reality that every group is trying to encourage.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

Are we really recruiting "hormone-driven twits"? What does that say about sororities?

I'm serious. Do you really think those are the women we are recruiting? I would have been very offended to be referred to in that way and don't think of college women in that way.

Anybody who's worked with teen-agers (or had one) can tell you that their brains are not fully operational between the ages of 12 and 20 - see this month's National Geographic for the scientific proof of this!!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by carnation

What. She. Said.

Plus for the past several years, I keep hearing of massive dropout rates in the new member classes on several competitive campuses. Many of us ascribe a lot of this to practically forcible maximizing.

It's not the forcible maximizing that is the problem. It's the tent talk, rumors and (in some cases) fraternity men and alumnae that make a woman think that unless she's part of the "Big Six" or "Core Four" her sorority life will completely suck. These problems have gotten 1000X worse with the internet.

As far as everyone who is offended by the hormone driven twits comment, I give you a quote from Elizabeth Wurtzel (who is 44) re her experience at Harvard: "Once I actually got there, once I found out that the air in Cambridge didn't tingle...once I realized that my classmates were not glamourous sophisticates but just a bunch of hormones on legs like teenagers throughout the country..." The point is, Titchou's advisee's quote is not a criticism of this particular generation. It is a very astute comment of what you're going through at that age. If you honestly don't remember ever being like that...I'm sorry but you were probably just a freak.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by 33girl

It's not the forcible maximizing that is the problem. It's the tent talk, rumors and (in some cases) fraternity men and alumnae that make a woman think that unless she's part of the "Big Six" or "Core Four" her sorority life will completely suck. These problems have gotten 1000X worse with the internet.

Sure, those are factors but in some chapters, we're talking about 10-40 dropouts. Almost every pre-initiation dropout that most of the locals know of feels like she was "jollied" into a chapter she wasn't sure she even wanted to return to, much less list on a pref card. And then they met other new members who said to them, "You too? I thought it was only me!" and by the time they come home the first time, they've dropped. They never felt like their chapters wanted them for themselves, only for the numbers.

Some of these girls could've made it in the chapters they left. Others never would have, they always would have been looking over their shoulder at their mom's chapter who dropped them, the chapter where so many from their high school pledged, the chapter they fell in love with that they thought loved them but cut them before prefs. Some will never be Greek again and others will polish up their resumes and GPAs and get to know more Greeks and because of upperclass quota, end up in one of the chapters they wanted.

It works for most of the chapters, though, because they take in new members who've been eagerly waiting on the COB list. They probably make better members than the women who left.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by carnation

Sure, those are factors but in some chapters, we're talking about 10-40 dropouts. Almost every pre-initiation dropout that most of the locals know of feels like she was "jollied" into a chapter she wasn't sure she even wanted to return to, much less list on a pref card. And then they met other new members who said to them, "You too? I thought it was only me!" and by the time they come home the first time, they've dropped. They never felt like their chapters wanted them for themselves, only for the numbers.

Some of these girls could've made it in the chapters they left. Others never would have, they always would have been looking over their shoulder at their mom's chapter who dropped them, the chapter where so many from their high school pledged, the chapter they fell in love with that they thought loved them but cut them before prefs. Some will never be Greek again and others will polish up their resumes and GPAs and get to know more Greeks and because of upperclass quota, end up in one of the chapters they wanted.

I'm sorry but this just seems like affirmation of exactly what I said. How do they know their chapters "only wanted them for the numbers"? Because of the tent talk that if ABC didn't get 125 girls in rush they would have to close. Why are they looking over their shoulder at their mom's chapter? Because their mom didn't think Panhellenically and spent the girl's whole childhood talking about not how great Greek life is, but how great XYZ life is. As for wanting to spend 4 more years up the asses of the people you went to high school with, who you probably will wake up someday and realize they were friends mainly out of proximity and necessity, that is something that I absolutely fail to understand.

Your life is what you choose to make of it. If you choose to throw away an opportunity that in some cases is your ONLY opportunity, and that might have helped you to grow a lot more than getting the "chapter you wanted" - sorry if I don't feel the least bit sorry for you.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by carnation

Sure, those are factors but in some chapters, we're talking about 10-40 dropouts. Almost every pre-initiation dropout that most of the locals know of feels like she was "jollied" into a chapter she wasn't sure she even wanted to return to, much less list on a pref card. And then they met other new members who said to them, "You too? I thought it was only me!" and by the time they come home the first time, they've dropped. They never felt like their chapters wanted them for themselves, only for the numbers.

Some of these girls could've made it in the chapters they left. Others never would have, they always would have been looking over their shoulder at their mom's chapter who dropped them, the chapter where so many from their high school pledged, the chapter they fell in love with that they thought loved them but cut them before prefs. Some will never be Greek again and others will polish up their resumes and GPAs and get to know more Greeks and because of upperclass quota, end up in one of the chapters they wanted.

It works for most of the chapters, though, because they take in new members who've been eagerly waiting on the COB list. They probably make better members than the women who left.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I'm just wondering some things out loud:


When you're dealing with chapters of almost 200 women (at some of these bigger schools) is your experience really going to be THAT much different in XYZ vs. The Holy Grail Chapter that you were in love with?

Maybe that's something WE know as alumnae (that you can be happy in a chapter that wasn't your fave and can still have a comparable experience) with the benefit of a couple of years of hindsight. I guess at 18, you just don't have the life experiences to know that (added to it that you may have been told since junior high or HS that "everyone from my HS pledges ______" or that all the Anytown girls always pledge ______.")

[violetpretty]

For many PNMs, recruitment is their first experience with rejection and disappointment. They've been a big fish in a little pond their whole lives, and that can give them an entitlement complex to think they deserve a "better" chapter than the one they got on bid day.

Plus, many PNMs/NMs are making decisions based off a rushed week. They don't have the perspective to see that they could have a wonderful experience in a bottom tier chapter.

[Titchou]

Here's the unvarnished truth. I would be willing to bet that every woman who withdraws from recruitment (other than those who have a family emergency or something like that arise) do so fundamentally because they believe they are too good for the choices they have left. Seriously. And those who are released are done so because 1) they have no or too few recs on a campus where they are required or 2) they don't meet the qualifications for membership.

Now, this may be an over the top example, but if the PNM was the "bff" of the whole football team her senior year in HS, I'm never writing a rec for her. 4 years of college just isn't far enough away from the activity to clear memories.

Now, how many of the 200 or so out of 1750 PNMs at Alabama who were released (not who dropped out) could fit into this sort of scenario but would never admit it? Just because woman signs up and pays her fee does not make her qualified for membership. And just because she is Susie Snowflake doesn't make her better than anyone else.

[KSUViolet06]

Oh, sure. Helping out behind the scenes is fine. I wasn't referring to that. I was talking about them coming in and actually INTERACTING WITH PNMs.

I know that chapters who have done this don't do so with the INTENT of deceiving PNMs, but what ends up happening is a kind of unintentional bait & switch, if you will. A PNM may have REALLY clicked with an Out Of Town XYZ, not fully understanding that come Bid Day, those women aren't going to be around.

[pearlbubbles]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Sidenote: are people still doing the "bring out of town chapters to help with recruitment" thing? Do HQs and advisors still suggest that it be done?

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I know that chapters who have done this don't do so with the INTENT of deceiving PNMs, but what ends up happening is a kind of unintentional bait & switch, if you will. A PNM may have REALLY clicked with an Out Of Town XYZ, not fully understanding that come Bid Day, those women aren't going to be around.

I know that this happened with three chapters at my alma mater (one of which did ultimately close).

I know that the year I went through recruitment, I found it very off-putting to meet the women from the near-by chapter, because while they could talk about XYZ nationally, they were always referring to specific things they did at their own chapter, which clearly wasn't the case for the chapter at my alma mater.

[Mevara]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Oh, sure. Helping out behind the scenes is fine. I wasn't referring to that. I was talking about them coming in and actually INTERACTING WITH PNMs.

I know that chapters who have done this don't do so with the INTENT of deceiving PNMs, but what ends up happening is a kind of unintentional bait & switch, if you will. A PNM may have REALLY clicked with an Out Of Town XYZ, not fully understanding that come Bid Day, those women aren't going to be around.

I know I read a recruitment story from USC where a chapter had done it last year. I also know of another chapter at a different campus that also did it this year. (These were 2 different NPC Orgs)