Black Swan

[DTD Alum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I really liked The Wrestler. I really like Mickey Rourke. Seeing him always makes me sad.

I thought the Wrestler was fantastic. Black Swan deals with a lot of the same themes...aging as an artist/athlete and how it affects the body and mind, the strive for perfection, the difficulty making the choice to stop at the top of your game vs. trying to go further/make a comeback. Darren Aronofsky also said in an interview he was trying to show the similarities between an art form that is considered very "lowbrow" (staged and choreographed wrestling) and an art considered "highbrow" (ballet). Of course, Black Swan does have some elements of the supernatural, mental illness and psychological terror that The Wrestler did not.

Originally Posted by LXA SE285

Without giving it away, did those of you who've seen it believe the ending was literal or metaphorical?

Absolutely think it was literal. There are some things that occurred that make me think this, if you want I can PM you why.

Originally Posted by 33girl

PM me and tell me what happens in the last 20 minutes.

There are certain things/images that don't bother the general populace that leave me in a fetal position sobbing, and vice versa.

OK, will do. Granted, as with many movies it isn't so much the plot points but rather the built-up suspense, relentlessness and way it was filmed that made it so intense.

[cheerfulgreek]

Some parts were kind of creepy. Overall, I didn't like it.

[Tulip86]

Good to know it's a bit creepy.. I won't go to the theatre for that one then!

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by Tulip86

Good to know it's a bit creepy.. I won't go to the theatre for that one then!

It's not scary at all. There's like maybe only a couple of creepy scenes. Most of it is sexual, perverted stuff.

[Tulip86]

Just checked IMDB and I am not seeing that in a theatre. I'm such a wuss

[DrPhil]

I just saw it. I liked it but it wasn't as interesting, exciting, and mysterious as the commercials made it seem. I wouldn't watch it again.

It was more like Fight Club than it was The Wrestler.

There were 2 older couples on a double date sitting in front of me. One of guys said "I'm about to fall asleep" and kept scoffing throughout the movie. His date (wife? whatever) made the "that's all? wtf?" face at the end of the movie.

The end of the movie definitely leaves a lot to be desired. The sexual stuff in the movie definitely is wasted because it wasn't really needed.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

It was more like Fight Club than it was The Wrestler.

Ha. DTD Alum told me what happened and I saw the Fight Club parallel too.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Ha. DTD Alum told me what happened and I saw the Fight Club parallel too.

Yeah the main theme of the movie isn't aging talent so I don't see The Wrestler. It's more about mind games and mind battles a la Fight Club. Actually, they could've left some things out of this movie because they were trying to do too much to make it...intense...or whatever people want to call it.

I initially did not think this movie was geared toward a particular demographic but i can see why "masculine men" and men who are not into ballet would not want to see this movie. On another note, the movie is not automatically geared toward women. You have to want to see a movie that has some blatant parts but is really about mind tricks and, what I consider to be, cliff hangers dressed in classical music and a tutu.

I love ballet and was a ballerina when I was younger. I loved the dancing and ballet themes more than I liked the movie. Natalie Portman looked gorgeous, kinda like Jessica Alba in some scenes, but she was definitely "ballerina thin." I hope she was able to eat some food and gain some weight after they finished filming.

[IlovemyAKA]

It's not playing in my area. I will have to Netflix it.

[tri deezy]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

...she was definitely "ballerina thin." I hope she was able to eat some food and gain some weight after they finished filming.

According to IMDB, she lost 20lbs for the role! And she's so petite to begin with!

I saw it last weekend and I loved it. I thought every minute of it was interesting and tense. The role really displayed Natalie Portman's talent--I won't be surprised at all if she wins awards for it. I don't know if I would really call it a psychological thriller as much as a dark psychological drama. It's definitely not horror in the way we think of horror movies these days. What's creepiest about Black Swan is that people really do go through what Nina went through. I don't want to give away too much, but I'll just say that what happens to the main character (psychologically) really does happen to people, and that is more scary than any paranormal theme kind of movie. Black Swan made me weak at the knees!

[DTD Alum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yeah the main theme of the movie isn't aging talent so I don't see The Wrestler. It's more about mind games and mind battles a la Fight Club.

Main theme, no, but aging talent was a heavy theme in the movie. Winona Ryder's character being forcibly removed from the company leaving room for the new star to emerge was a major plot point. Also, the mother forcing her dreams on her daughter because she is too old and didn't accomplish her goals in her prime is another gigantic plot theme. I think the decision whether to leave at the top of your game while you are perfect or to prolong your craft and risk decline is a huge decision for more than one character (want to avoid spoilers), including what is arguably the biggest decision any character makes in the movie. That was definitely present in both films. And I think there was a huge similarity in plot between the two movies but I don't want to talk about it on the board because it also involves a major spoiler...but there is an element of the two movies that is essentially repeated.

I think the major themes were the lengths people push themselves for perfection, the existence of a "darker side" to one's personality, regret and aging in the arts, mind games and (potentially, depending on how you view it) mental illness.

[DrPhil]

At this point, people who haven't seen the movie but keep clicking on this thread are essentially looking for spoilers. What else could they expect to read? Movie summaries, showtimes and tickets can be found outside of GC. LOL.

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

Main theme, no, but aging talent was a heavy theme in the movie. Winona Ryder's character being forcibly removed from the company leaving room for the new star to emerge was a major plot point. Also, the mother forcing her dreams on her daughter because she is too old and didn't accomplish her goals in her prime is another gigantic plot theme. I think the decision whether to leave at the top of your game while you are perfect or to prolong your craft and risk decline is a huge decision for more than one character (want to avoid spoilers), including what is arguably the biggest decision any character makes in the movie. That was definitely present in both films. And I think there was a huge similarity in plot between the two movies but I don't want to talk about it on the board because it also involves a major spoiler...but there is an element of the two movies that is essentially repeated.

I know. Beyond Wynona being replaced and Portman's mom's controlling behavior, I don't know how much of that was reality versus Natalie Portman's mind and her interpretation. Either way, I could've done without much of that as well as without the "lesbian dream" and "talking artistry." Despite the reality of mental illness (I think this movie was about mental illness and not the supernatural), those details were simply not interesting to me. It wasn't suspenseful and the people in the audience who expressed shock or fear from anything in this movie are lightweights when it comes to suspense and even horror. I was more in line with the people who sat in front of me who seemed to cringe a bit a few times but the movie never lived up to the cringe.

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

I think the major themes were the lengths people push themselves for perfection, the existence of a "darker side" to one's personality, regret and aging in the arts, mind games and (potentially, depending on how you view it) mental illness.

I think the major themes were pushing for perfection, mental illness, and crazy bitch (which is different than mental illness).

[ASUADPi]

Originally Posted by SMTTT

I really want to see it but they aren't even playing it in Mississippi. I guess "in theaters everywhere" doesn't really mean everywhere these days =(

The production company probably released it to the "main" cities (i.e. New York and L.A.) so that it could be in Oscar contention. A lot of movies do this, they will release to New York and L.A. prior to the end of the year, so that the movie can be considered for the Oscars and then once the new year starts they release it "worldwide".

[tri deezy]

SPOILERS:

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

I think the major themes were the lengths people push themselves for perfection, the existence of a "darker side" to one's personality, regret and aging in the arts, mind games and (potentially, depending on how you view it) mental illness.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

At this point, people who haven't seen the movie but keep clicking on this thread are essentially looking for spoilers. What else could they expect to read?....I think the major themes were pushing for perfection, mental illness, and crazy bitch (which is different than mental illness).

I won't feel bad for saying what I really wanted to say now.

I thought that this movie was majorly about serious mental illness. Natalie Portman's character had a very serious case of non-medicated schizophrenia. Throughout the movie, I kept thinking about the aunt of an old friend of mine who, during a psychotic episode associated with her schizophrenia, cut off her own lips with a razor blade thinking that they were filled with spider eggs. That's why I wrote about how the theme of this movie is extra creepy since it really does happen to people. Schizophrenia is a terrifying disability that's sometimes treated as a joke by people outside the medical and mental health fields. I don't know what this movie will do for its reputation, but I hope that people who see the movie realize that that's what's being portrayed!

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by tri deezy

Throughout the movie, I kept thinking about the aunt of an old friend of mine who, during a psychotic episode associated with her schizophrenia, cut off her own lips with a razor blade thinking that they were filled with spider eggs.

Originally Posted by tri deezy

That's why I wrote about how the theme of this movie is extra creepy since it really does happen to people. Schizophrenia is a terrifying disability that's sometimes treated as a joke by people outside the medical and mental health fields. I don't know what this movie will do for its reputation, but I hope that people who see the movie realize that that's what's being portrayed!

The parts that made me cringe were her body scars. Ouch.

Everyone knows someone with a mental illness, diagnosed or undiagnosed. I think Black Swan could have done a better job with that. Wynona Rider, the ballet teacher, the woman with the tattoo, and her mother were okay stories but it made it seem jumbled. I guess the world of a schizophrenic is jumbled.

Even her turning into a black swan would've made more sense if they hadn't run through it. The movie wasn't particularly deep so people who left the theater like "what the hell" aren't necessarily adults who are not experienced with mental illness nor are they idiots who can't think without everything being spelled out for them. LOL. No one in this thread is saying that but that was just my thought when I wonder what Black Swan could've done differently.