Too Fat for 15

[DrPhil]

I meant to type "over 40%." That's a generalization and probably an exaggeration for some of the teens but the point is that they have an unusual amount of bodyfat and are overweight.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by FleurGirl

That girl in the pink sweatshirt really isn't fat... Neither is the girl on the far left...
Those kinds of shows just make me sad.

The bottom line is that even though the girls you refer to may not look "that big", they are obese (according to an article based on the press release). It mentioned the weights of three of the younger kids - 210, 366 and 510. The other two (17 and 18) are "veterans" of the place that they are going to lose the weight, and I don't know their weights.

I'm not advocating an impossibly thin, size-0 standard. Yes, there are perfectly healthy people who are naturally thin, and those who attain smaller sizes through proper nutrition and appropriate exercise, but a lot of people try to get there via very unhealthy methods. But it also seems that things have headed in the opposite direction. People rationalize that just because they're not bigger than the "average woman", they're ok, when the "average woman" is technically overweight. And yes, you can be overweight and relatively healthy.

I applaud anyone who decides to take their health more seriously and make changes. That can mean something as drastic as losing 50 pounds, a commitment like a daily walking program, or simply deciding to eat lean meat instead of fatty cuts.

And lastly, I'm not saying that people need to hate their bodies. We just need to realize that the human body, though very complex, is a gift we get just one chance at using. When you think of it that way, and all the things it can do, you might just want to keep it around for as long as possible, and in the best condition possible.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

The bottom line is that even though the girls you refer to may not look "that big", they are obese (according to an article based on the press release). It mentioned the weights of three of the younger kids - 210, 366 and 510. The other two (17 and 18) are "veterans" of the place that they are going to lose the weight, and I don't know their weights.

I'm not advocating an impossibly thin, size-0 standard. Yes, there are perfectly healthy people who are naturally thin, and those who attain smaller sizes through proper nutrition and appropriate exercise, but a lot of people try to get there via very unhealthy methods. But it also seems that things have headed in the opposite direction. People rationalize that just because they're not bigger than the "average woman", they're ok, when the "average woman" is technically overweight. And yes, you can be overweight and relatively healthy.

I applaud anyone who decides to take their health more seriously and make changes. That can mean something as drastic as losing 50 pounds, a commitment like a daily walking program, or simply deciding to eat lean meat instead of fatty cuts.

And lastly, I'm not saying that people need to hate their bodies. We just need to realize that the human body, though very complex, is a gift we get just one chance at using. When you think of it that way, and all the things it can do, you might just want to keep it around for as long as possible, and in the best condition possible.

That goes for thin people, too. Thin people can be as unhealthy as fat people.

There are people that are naturally heavy and are still healthy, and there's a hard line to walk between reminding people that being very overweight can be dangerous and making people feel bad about themselves.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

That goes for thin people, too. Thin people can be as unhealthy as fat people.

Did you type this disclaimer out of habit without reading ree-Xi's post to see that she already included that disclaimer in her post?

If so, that's another reason why obesity will never stop being a problem in America and disproportionately in the Black community. People are so stuck in disclaimers and making sure no one feels bad about themselves. Yeah, let's make the AVERAGE PERSON (athletes are a small % of the population) believe that they can be 50+ lbs (technically) overweight and be perfectly healthy; and that we can't discuss obesity without also discussing how people can be thin or average size and unhealthy.

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

There are people that are naturally heavy and are still healthy....

"Naturally heavy." If I had $1 for every time I heard that, especially from Black folks.

Either way, those people represent a very small % and they need to consult doctor(s) to ensure that they are REALLY heavy and healthy. Eating well (that includes the right kind of food and the right proportions--overeating health food and junk food is unhealthy) and exercising usually means that you will not be "heavy" in the sense that most people are overweight. The scale may be higher, especially when you build muscle mass, but your bodyfat composition and how your body looks and clothes fit will show that the person isn't overweight in the sense that we are talking about in this thread.

People get real unrealistic and dishonest when we talk about body image and weight. People pretend that their muffin top is a result of healthy and moderate eating and exercise. You don't have to want to lose weight for your body to reflect your healthy lifestyle.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Did you type this disclaimer out of habit without reading ree-Xi's post to see that she already included that disclaimer in her post?

If so, that's another reason why obesity will never stop being a problem in America and disproportionately in the Black community. People are so stuck in disclaimers and making sure no one feels bad about themselves. Yeah, let's make the AVERAGE PERSON (athletes are a small % of the population) believe that they can be 50+ lbs (technically) overweight and be perfectly healthy; and that we can't discuss obesity without also discussing how people can be thin or average size and unhealthy.



Those people represent a very small % and they need to consult doctor(s) to ensure that they are REALLY heavy and healthy. Eating well (that includes the right kind of food and the right proportions--overeating health food and junk food is unhealthy) and exercising usually means that you will not be "heavy" in the sense that most people are overweight. The scale may be higher, especially when you build muscle mass, but your bodyfat composition and how your body looks and clothes fit will show that the person isn't overweight in the sense that we are talking about in this thread.

People get real unrealistic and dishonest when we talk about body image and weight. People pretend that their muffin top is a result of healthy and moderate eating and exercise. You don't have to want to lose weight for your body to reflect your healthy lifestyle.

In fact, she said that people can become thin through unhealthy practices, not that they are in fact thin and unhealthy to begin with. It is easy for a thin person to judge a fat person, but thin does not automatically mean healthy.

I never said being 50 pounds overweight would be ok. I have family members that are around 20 pounds overweight with perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, blood sugar levels, etc. It is unlikely that the extra weight is from muscle mass, and they do not appear to be thin. They are probably healthier than I am, considering the holy hell I put my body through when I first got to college. Obviously, if someone is 50 or more pounds overweight they are probably unhealthy or are on a path to become unhealthy. That is a different argument that no one is disputing.

My size 10 and 12 family members were far healthier than I (yes, they have been and are monitored by a doctor and are factually very healthy) when I was a 2, and are probably healthier than I am now at a 4, considering the damage I have done to myself (including at one point a diet of almost totally fast food, an addiction to milkshakes, and drinking about 3 times a week...not light beer, either...didn't gain a pound at the time, but there is no telling how many empty calories I was taking in a day...very, very, very unhealthy). The whole point is that BMI numbers are NOT a complete indicator of health, nor is weight. Someone who is on the top of the normal range or the bottom of the overweight range can be healthy. Someone at the bottom to middle of the normal range can be unhealthy. Obviously someone at the top of the overweight range and above is very likely not in good health and I haven't seen anyone argue that yet. No one has or is saying obesity is healthy or that it is ok and safe to be obese. The argument is that "fat" is a general term and doesn't always mean someone is one step from a heart attack. The "muffin top" doesn't by default mean someone is lazy or does not eat right, and the lack of one doesn't necessarily indicate an active person who has healthy eating habits.

[DrPhil]

The overweight and obesity epidemic is generally not about people who could lose 10-20lbs. These people are technically overweight but it is considered at the warning level of the weight index. I'm sure everyone has already seen the "underweight, normal range, overweight, obese" line graph/table before.

I'm talking about 50+ lbs overweight because that's what's generally considered obese and morbidly obese; and that can also include 20+lbs overweight. That's what the overweight and obesity epidemic is generally about because a large percentage of the population has far surpassed the warning level of 10-20lbs. The kids in this show are definitely over 20lbs overweight and are probably 50+lbs overweight.

So, if everyone agrees on overweight and unhealthy when it pertains to people who could lose more than 10-20 lbs, that's cool.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

In fact, she said that people can become thin through unhealthy practices, not that they are in fact thin and unhealthy to begin with. It is easy for a thin person to judge a fat person, but thin does not automatically mean healthy.

I never said being 50 pounds overweight would be ok. I have family members that are around 20 pounds overweight with perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, blood sugar levels, etc. It is unlikely that the extra weight is from muscle mass, and they do not appear to be thin. They are probably healthier than I am, considering the holy hell I put my body through when I first got to college. Obviously, if someone is 50 or more pounds overweight they are probably unhealthy or are on a path to become unhealthy. That is a different argument that no one is disputing.

My size 10 and 12 family members were far healthier than I (yes, they have been and are monitored by a doctor and are factually very healthy) when I was a 2, and are probably healthier than I am now at a 4, considering the damage I have done to myself (including at one point a diet of almost totally fast food, an addiction to milkshakes, and drinking about 3 times a week...not light beer, either...didn't gain a pound at the time, but there is no telling how many empty calories I was taking in a day...very, very, very unhealthy). The whole point is that BMI numbers are NOT a complete indicator of health, nor is weight. Someone who is on the top of the normal range or the bottom of the overweight range can be healthy. Someone at the bottom to middle of the normal range can be unhealthy. Obviously someone at the top of the overweight range and above is very likely not in good health and I haven't seen anyone argue that yet. No one has or is saying obesity is healthy or that it is ok and safe to be obese. The argument is that "fat" is a general term and doesn't always mean someone is one step from a heart attack. The "muffin top" doesn't by default mean someone is lazy or does not eat right, and the lack of one doesn't necessarily indicate an active person who has healthy eating habits.

I'm tired of participating in discussions and having to put up a bunch of disclaimers. I'm sorry that I didn't spell out the one you are referring to.

Yes, I realize that a thin person can be unhealthy. They can have "invisible" health problems like high cholesterol or triglycerides, be a closet smoker, yada yada yada. But being even 20 pounds overweight can increase your risk for Type-2 Diabetes, some cancers, arthritis, sleep apnea and asthma. Where you carry the weight is also an important factor (people who store fat in their middle rather on their hips/thighs are at an increased risk for heart disease). If you could possibly decrease those risks, it makes sense to try to do so, sensibly.

I am not judging anyone, and this is not a case of "it's easy for a thin person to judge a fat person". I have a complex medical history and at times, I have had to struggle to put/keep weight on. And yes, people would ignorantly say "I'd love to have your problem", even knowing that I was sometimes in a life and death situation.

Thanks to medications and conscious meal planning, I am usually within the recommended weight range for my height and age. My doctors prefer me to be on the higher end of the spectrum, because A. I tend to lose weight very quickly when sick, and B. there is a correlation between lower body fat percentage and decrease in lung capacity. I take 5-7 medications on any given day just to help my body process food, and even then, I have a lot of pain, discomfort and nausea. Eating is honestly a pain in the a-- because my body doesn't naturally do the things it should with food. I have to think about it constantly.

I'm not saying this to complain, but to tell you that none of this is "easy" for me.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

The overweight and obesity epidemic is generally not about people who could lose 10-20lbs. These people are technically overweight but it is considered at the warning level of the weight index. I'm sure everyone has already seen the "underweight, normal range, overweight, obese" line graph/table before.

I'm talking about 50+ lbs overweight because that's what's generally considered obese and morbidly obese; and that can also include 20+lbs overweight. That's what the overweight and obesity epidemic is generally about because a large percentage of the population has far surpassed the warning level of 10-20lbs. The kids in this show are definitely over 20lbs overweight and are probably 50+lbs overweight.

So, if everyone agrees on overweight and unhealthy when it pertains to people who could lose more than 10-20 lbs, that's cool.

Yes, you and I are talking about two different things.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

I'm tired of participating in discussions and having to put up a bunch of disclaimers. I'm sorry that I didn't spell out the one you are referring to.

Yes, I realize that a thin person can be unhealthy. They can have "invisible" health problems like high cholesterol or triglycerides, be a closet smoker, yada yada yada. But being even 20 pounds overweight can increase your risk for Type-2 Diabetes, some cancers, arthritis, sleep apnea and asthma. Where you carry the weight is also an important factor (people who store fat in their middle rather on their hips/thighs are at an increased risk for heart disease). If you could possibly decrease those risks, it makes sense to try to do so, sensibly.

I am not judging anyone, and this is not a case of "it's easy for a thin person to judge a fat person". I have a complex medical history and at times, I have had to struggle to put/keep weight on. And yes, people would ignorantly say "I'd love to have your problem", even knowing that I was sometimes in a life and death situation.

Thanks to medications and conscious meal planning, I am usually within the recommended weight range for my height and age. My doctors prefer me to be on the higher end of the spectrum, because A. I tend to lose weight very quickly when sick, and B. there is a correlation between lower body fat percentage and decrease in lung capacity. I take 5-7 medications on any given day just to help my body process food, and even then, I have a lot of pain, discomfort and nausea. Eating is honestly a pain in the a-- because my body doesn't naturally do the things it should with food. I have to think about it constantly.

I'm not saying this to complain, but to tell you that none of this is "easy" for me.

I didn't realize you would take the post personally. I was making a general statement that thin people find it easy to judge fat people, and some do. None of us can pretend we haven't heard that attitude before. The entire point of using the example I did was that the family members that are technically overweight and several sizes larger than I are probably healthier than I am now and are certainly healthier than I was at size 2. None of them have been told they are at risk for Diabetes, and I have been told that, nor that their cholesterol or blood pressure isn't healthy for their age, and I have. One of them does do more cardio than I do, and probably more working out in general because I hate it and it's a struggle to make myself go three times a week. She's just not a small woman and probably never will be without extreme restrictions.

What I was arguing against is the assumption that overweight automatically means unhealthy and that thin people are by default healthier than overweight people. People that are not thin are not by default lazy or habitual burger eaters. Obviously your medical conditions are not caused by your lifestyle, however your situation an example of thin doesn't always mean "lucky" or "healthy". (Incidentally an old roomate of mine had a food allergy and described eating as you do and did get frustrated when people told her she was "lucky" for being thin because in fact it was directly related to how unpleasant it was for her to eat.)

[rhoyaltempest]

Also keep in mind that there is still so much the medical community does not know about our bodies and weight gain issues. There are studies being done that reveal that Type II Diabetes is genetic also (my doctor believes this as well) and that no matter how overweight/obese one gets, some folks will never develop the disease. Doctors are also exploring the idea that overeating and an affinity (or addiction) for sweets/carbs might be a symptom or precursor to developing the disease. The bottom line is that obesity is a complex physiological issue that goes beyond the popular "Just eat less" mantra and we need to have more compassion for everyone (especially the kids) and tackle these issues as a society, which means creating a healthier environment and better food industry practices for all. Studies show that where there are healthier practices, there are healthier people.

And I also agree that the focus should be on healthier living for all - lots of thin folks are unhealthy, out of shape, and soon to develop diseases as well. My former personal trainer called this "skinny fat" and said that many of his clients had it. You can be realistic with people and express their need to lose weight (this coming from doctors and professionals) without singling them out and humiliating them. The only thing this will lead to for MOST, is depression, more overeating for comfort, and the repeat of a vicious cycle. Just look at those who are mordbidly obese. How many really want to live that way, no matter what they say? They are obviously having issues beyond their control.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Also keep in mind that there is still so much the medical community does not know about our bodies and weight gain issues. There are studies being done that reveal that Type II Diabetes is genetic also (my doctor believes this as well) and that no matter how overweight/obese one gets, some folks will never develop the disease. Doctors are also exploring the idea that overeating and an affinity (or addiction) for sweets/carbs might be a symptom or precursor to developing the disease. The bottom line is that obesity is a complex physiological issue that goes beyond the popular "Just eat less" mantra and we need to have more compassion for everyone (especially the kids) and tackle these issues as a society, which means creating a healthier environment and better food industry practices for all. Studies show that where there are healthier practices, there are healthier people.

And I also agree that the focus should be on healthier living for all - lots of thin folks are unhealthy, out of shape, and soon to develop diseases as well. My former personal trainer called this "skinny fat" and said that many of his clients had it. You can be realistic with people and express their need to lose weight (this coming from doctors and professionals) without singling them out and humiliating them. The only thing this will lead to for MOST, is depression, more overeating for comfort, and the repeat of a vicious cycle. Just look at those who are mordbidly obese. How many really want to live that way, no matter what they say? They are obviously having issues beyond their control.

Very well said.

[NinjaPoodle]

So, did anyone watch it besides me?

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by 33girl

That boy is 15? His face doesn't look like he's over 10. Maybe it's just that particular photo.

No, he's only 11. So you're very close!

They all range in ages.



Ninja, I just watched it. No complaints.

[RaggedyAnn]

Originally Posted by FleurGirl

That girl in the pink sweatshirt really isn't fat... Neither is the girl on the far left...
Those kinds of shows just make me sad.

I watched one episode. The girl in the pink is 11 and over 200 pounds (I think 210). If I'm remembering correctly, the girl on the left has already been on campus for a while.

[ree-Xi]

I haven't watched it though I did watch a few episodes of "Huge". Nicky Blonsky's character has very few redeeming qualities. The writers haven't given the viewer much reason to care about her character. David Hasselhoff's daughter's character is a bit bland if not typical - the "pretty, blond" girl at (fat) camp. The camp administrator has a cliched back story, and it's too pervasive in the episodes.

I'll have to look for "Too Fat for 15" online.