AZPHI Rush process please critic and compare

[AZPHI JOURNEAUX]

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[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by AZPHI JOURNEAUX

I'm going with yes, apparently everything we do is hazing in some manor, you must be an English major eh? sorry if i lack the will power to go through an edit my posts online... its not a peer reviewed journal, or a paper for class or work. I don't feel like checking my work my bad.

Writing well is something we should do whenever we are representing our organization in public.

As for the quote

Um don't be too quick to judge. I came here looking for advice, and got that everything that is "required" is hazing so when i pull up a situation where someone else does it its suddenly not hazing? APO has many of the same standards we have. if not all the same standards.

>> You asked for "critique and compar(ison). That's what I did.

Also the light is a joke, if you don't get that, theres a problem... And i have been interview in a dark room by the NSA before, not something id repeat. nor care to talk about. Our interviews are not anything like it.We don't interrogate, we interview, there are 2 sides to a conversation.

>> There was no indication that this was a joke.

As for the sense of accomplishment, no I'm not being sexist, I'm being realistic, men are purpose driven, we love to achieve and making it thought this process has made better people from all of us. we raised hundreds of dollars for charitable causes and spent many many hours on community service to make a name for ourself in the community.

>> Yes, that is a sexist statement. Men and women have differences, but one gender does not own the patent to living a purpose-driven life.

I am happy to hear that your org has spent many hours in the name of service. In my opinion (and you can take it or leave it), THIS is what you should focus on, not the scary interrogation or senseless tasks. That doesn't mean that the process can't be fun or lighthearted, but I think that there are better way - in the name of service - to accomplish this.

As for women I'm sure they do have a degree of achievement for getting something handed to them, the pledging process isn't suppose to be a showering of gifts, otherwise it would not be there. they need to know that everyone before them has don this, its not dangerous, and there are other options if they ever feel uncomfortable.

>>My pledge processes (I am a member of an NPC sorority and a National women's service sorority) did not consist of a "showering of gifts".

Just because "it's always been done" a certain way, and just because you don't perceive "real" danger, doesn't mean that it's all okay. Can you understand that?

The degree of insult in your statement lets me know that you feel that you earned something. if you didn't have any requirements for getting it, how does that make it so important?

>> I am not saying that you should not have guidelines or steps to achieve in gaining membership. I am saying that the tactics are skewed. Again, my opinion.

There has to be standards in every organization otherwise i would play for the Yankees getting paid millions cause i can suck at baseball. but getting rid of me isn't an option cause then we would have requirements and that would mean that some people don't quite fit what we are looking for.

>> I sincerely believe that if you look at your stated ideals, you can find appropriate and effective methods for your pledges to learn and grow in the processes of becoming a member/brother.

What this helps us pick out,
Dedicated people
people that are willing to learn
people that are willing to serve
people that are able to live in the real world, cause eventually shit might not go as you 100 percent like.

>> ??

I'm asking you people to be realistic. The pledging process isn't a joke and isn't taken to the level of hazing you all think it is, society needs to change cause this is sad. really freaking pathetic.

>> You said it isn't a joke, but earlier, you said that you, yourself, played "the game".

In some places, even a low "level of hazing" is too much. There are laws, and some people take them very seriously. Society has changed, hence all the risk management guidelines and procedures in (Inter)national organizations. We are being realistic and letting you know what we (collectively and personally) feel about what you have shared here.

You did come here and open your book for everyone to read and critique. Most Greek organizations don't share everything with the public. I am sorry you aren't happy with people's (my) answers.

[AZPHI JOURNEAUX]

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[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by AZPHI JOURNEAUX

as for all the required things, what are we supposed to just let everyone in? wheres the selection process, how do we determine who is dedicated and willing to further the fraternity in a positive way.

as i mentioned they have to hit a point level its super easy to get to with not much effort if at all.

Cutting out cheesy CIA interviews does not = letting everyone in. lol.

[als463]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Cutting out cheesy CIA interviews does not = letting everyone in. lol.

I agree with KSUViolet on this one. Everyone has told you that what you are doing is hazing. I disagree with your belief that by "hazing" the pledges you are determining who will be great brothers who want to further the needs of the fraternity.

I was NOT hazed and I am very involved. I am a member of Foundation, I have held a position every year since graduation in various Alumna Chapters. I am heading to my second convention as a voting delegate. I send money to my undergraduate chapter. I have written a recommendation for a young lady who later became one of my sisters. I wear my letters every chance I get, ESPECIALLY during times when I am doing philanthropy events. I care about everything my sorority stands for and I have respect for all the other NPC GLOs who are members of National Panhellenic. I'd say I'm a decent sister, who has never given away secrets of my sorority and loves it-yet I was never hazed. What is your response to that?

[AZPHI JOURNEAUX]

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[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by AZPHI JOURNEAUX

I'm opening the floor for you to explain your selection processes so we can take a look.... I'm sure we can find hazing to some degree.... someone I went through the system and didn't feel my personal felling where hurt in any way, i figured it was part of the game, to be in a community service group you might want to be active in community service. its like being on the baseball team, the selection criteria there is you have to proficiently play baseball... if it works better we can change the lighting to general florescent lights if it really means that much....

as for the tests and quizzes we are not talking about go get me this and that, its written tests. from a set informational packet.

Originally Posted by AZPHI JOURNEAUX

and we have point value assigned to spending time with people in the fraternity, as i said you don't have to do everything, if you really think that a selection process like this is hazing, its all openly going on, we admit to it, and no one has ever complained. if someone voices a complaint its heard and the problem is remedied, we don't allow any physical harm to come to the pledges or for that matter the availability for it.

as for the psychological effects of a lighting change in a room, its not a interrogation, its an interview, just like those for a job. just you have a light shining in your eyes.... honest if it means enough we can change.

I honestly do not see how any of these things relate to worthiness to join a community service organization. Why not have people work together on a community service project as membership candidates, and if they massively fail at that, don't let them in. Or do X amount of community service hours and have a GPA or X.XX None of your little email tasks, light blinding interviews, or wallet door things have any relation to a community service organization. I can't imagine Habitat for Humanity blindfolding me and shooting a nail gun near my head to prove I can participate, or the Humane Society mashing up a chocolate bar to look like dog poop and having me eat it before I can walk or groom animals.

I wouldn't want someone in my group who allowed themselves to be manipulated or treated like crap, and I wouldn't want to be on the radar of my school administration for actions where I could be sued or shut down, especially in the name of community service.

[als463]

Originally Posted by AZPHI JOURNEAUX

and we have point value assigned to spending time with people in the fraternity, as i said you don't have to do everything, if you really think that a selection process like this is hazing, its all openly going on, we admit to it, and no one has ever complained. if someone voices a complaint its heard and the problem is remedied, we don't allow any physical harm to come to the pledges or for that matter the availability for it.

as for the psychological effects of a lighting change in a room, its not a interrogation, its an interview, just like those for a job. just you have a light shining in your eyes.... honest if it means enough we can change.

You still haven't answered my question. How do you feel about what all I just said? I wasn't hazed and yet I am VERY involved and loyal to my sorority. I am also willing to bet that MANY people on this site, who are VERY LOYAL to their organizations, were NOT hazed. If you were at my campus and you were doing that (which you wouldn't be because Penn State no longer allows locals-at least local sororities and I'm sure fraternities) many of the people on campus would laugh at your CIA-style of "interviewing" the brothers. You make it seem more like a JOKE than an actual reputable fraternity. Aren't there any national fraternities on your campus?

[IrishLake]

Originally Posted by AZPHI JOURNEAUX

as for all the required things, what are we supposed to just let everyone in? wheres the selection process, how do we determine who is dedicated and willing to further the fraternity in a positive way.

as i mentioned they have to hit a point level its super easy to get to with not much effort if at all.

so if someone chooses to not finish a task, be it the essay or the interview, because they feel it's uncomfortable hazing, then how do they earn enough points to join? You say that walking out of something like that doesn't affect their potential membership status, but it does. How can they earn enough points if they don't finish the task? How can you say, then, that walking out does not affect them joining?

How about just talking to the guys? Getting to know them? Everything else sounds ok. The bowling, the mixers, the dinners. Keep up with stuff like that. Even an interview is fine, just take out the interrogation.

[AZPHI JOURNEAUX]

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[Senusret I]

AZPHI - Notice the lack of men who have responded to your questions. (I am the first one since you)

I suggest that you speak to men who are in a national fraternity already -- your fathers, blood brothers of fraternity brothers, and family friends. They will know you better than we do and will give you advice or referrals that are better than our advice could truly be.

Various fraternities also have much of their programs, pledging standards, etc, on the public parts of their websites. You can review these documents and compare your organization to them.

Good luck with everything -- go out there and meet the fraternity men you seek. GreekChat won't ultimately be very helpful. (Unless you want a whole lot of judgment from people who might not have even been initiated as undergrads into a fraternity like yours)

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

AZPHI - Notice the lack of men who have responded to your questions. (I am the first one since you)

I suggest that you speak to men who are in a national fraternity already -- your fathers, blood brothers of fraternity brothers, and family friends. They will know you better than we do and will give you advice or referrals that are better than our advice could truly be.

Various fraternities also have much of their programs, pledging standards, etc, on the public parts of their websites. You can review these documents and compare your organization to them.

Good luck with everything -- go out there and meet the fraternity men you seek. GreekChat won't ultimately be very helpful. (Unless you want a whole lot of judgment from people who might not have even been initiated as undergrads into a fraternity like yours)

How much Boy Scout popcorn did you have to sell before they let you in Alpha Phi Omega?

Those Girl Scouts made me sell and eat cookies, and I had to sew on all the badges of the older girls

[Senusret I]

[AZPHI JOURNEAUX]

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[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by AZPHI JOURNEAUX

So that really puts it in context..... women are under a different standard, their pledging processes are a lot different than anything I've seen, cause well women are emotional, men we like a sense of accomplishment... Yes we actually want our members to feel like they accomplished something, and it wasn't just given to them...

thanks for the first bit of good advice. ill look into the pledging standards for other frats.

thanks

You're welcome.

Be careful not to oversimplify the rationale, though. Some women prefer to feel a sense of accomplishment through trial (in their Greek experience) and others feel accomplished just by being selected. Conversely, many men are emotional and don't thrive off a trial-by-fire type of pledging program.

Do what's best for your fraternity, period.