Teacher suspended for facebook slam against student

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

It was a Christmas card and a Bible. It's not that serious. I don't see how the teacher let a child upset her that much. It's one thing to express anger or offense with a student. We all vent about our jobs--in fact, we do it on here all the time. But publicly accusing a student of committing a hate crime? That's over the line. I can't really say she deserved a 5-day suspension because I didn't see the actual comment, but sounds like she did more than some harmless venting.

Meh....I don't think it's worth a 5-day suspension, not to mention we don't really know the back story. For all we know, she is a practicing Muslim and this was a hostile act. It doesn't really sound like something a child would do, but more like something a parent would make their child do.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Meh....I don't think it's worth a 5-day suspension, not to mention we don't really know the back story. For all we know, she is a practicing Muslim and this was a hostile act. It doesn't really sound like something a child would do, but more like something a parent would make their child do.

I was going to say, if the teacher is Muslim, then yes, I would consider this a hate crime. But as far as not thinking the kid would do it on his own...you need to rent Jesus Camp. LOL.

Have to say though, the "heaven help him" makes me chuckle. It's like a variant of "bless your heart."

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I was going to say, if the teacher is Muslim, then yes, I would consider this a hate crime.

What would be the criminal act?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

What would be the criminal act?

I think her point was that it the gift of the Bible may have been intended as religious harassment, not that giving someone a religious text ought to be considered harassment on its own or that it's in any way a crime.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I think her point was that it the gift of the Bible may have been intended as religious harassment, not that giving someone a religious text ought to be considered harassment on its own or that it's in any way a crime.

I agree. I think calling it a hate crime was over stating it quite a bit, but certainly doesn't rise to the level of cause to suspend her.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

What would be the criminal act?

threat of violence, depending on the context, issue over believes, etc. Although it is quite clearly harassment, and that's a crime (usually), and crimes are usually based on hate.

[christiangirl]

A person is guilty of harassment in the first degree when he or she intentionally and repeatedly harasses another person by following such person in or about a public place or places or by engaging in a course of conduct or by repeatedly committing acts which places such person in reasonable fear of physical injury. ~http://definitions.uslegal.com/h/harassment/

This may be a stupid question, but is harassment defined as such if it's a one-time incident? According to the site above, the answer seems to be "no," but I'm not law-savvy.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

A person is guilty of harassment in the first degree when he or she intentionally and repeatedly harasses another person by following such person in or about a public place or places or by engaging in a course of conduct or by repeatedly committing acts which places such person in reasonable fear of physical injury. ~http://definitions.uslegal.com/h/harassment/

This may be a stupid question, but is harassment defined as such if it's a one-time incident? According to the site above, the answer seems to be "no," but I'm not law-savvy.

That kind of sounds like it would vary by state, but I am not an attorney.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

threat of violence, depending on the context, issue over believes, etc.

But where is the threat of violence? There isn't one.

Although it is quite clearly harassment, and that's a crime (usually), and crimes are usually based on hate.

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

That kind of sounds like it would vary by state, but I am not an attorney.

You may not be an attorney, but you are right that it would vary by state. In North Carolina, where this incident took place, a "hate crime" requires an assualt or damage to or defacement of property (or an actual threat of assault or damage to or defacement of property). And even if there were such a thing as simple "criminal harrassment" in North Carolina (there's really not -- there are crimes for harassing behavior in specific circumstances, like sexual harassment or stalking), I can't imagine that what happened here -- a one-time event, apparently -- could possibly support criminal charges.

I think lots of people are confusing ideas like hate crimes and criminal harassment with concepts like civil actions for hostile work environment or the like.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

But where is the threat of violence? There isn't one.


You may not be an attorney, but you are right that it would vary by state. In North Carolina, where this incident took place, a "hate crime" requires an assualt or damage to or defacement of property (or an actual threat of assault or damage to or defacement of property). And even if there were such a thing as simple "criminal harrassment" in North Carolina (there's really not -- there are crimes for harassing behavior in specific circumstances, like sexual harassment or stalking), I can't imagine that what happened here -- a one-time event, apparently -- could possibly support criminal charges.

I think lots of people are confusing ideas like hate crimes and criminal harassment with concepts like civil actions for hostile work environment or the like.

Oh yeah, no. I never said I thought it was harassment, but I def. can see where a case could be made for it, if the prosecution was bored that day or whatever.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Oh yeah, no. I never said I thought it was harassment . . . .

Then I guess I misunderstood what you meant when you said:

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Although it is quite clearly harassment, and that's a crime (usually), and crimes are usually based on hate.

. . . but I def. can see where a case could be made for it, if the prosecution was bored that day or whatever.

And my point was that a case for harassment can't be made, even if the proscutor is bored, at least not where the incident took place.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I was going to say, if the teacher is Muslim, then yes, I would consider this a hate crime. But as far as not thinking the kid would do it on his own...you need to rent Jesus Camp. LOL.

I was about to say--I went to HS with quite a few fundies who didn't need parental encouragement to do something like this.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Then I guess I misunderstood what you meant when you said:

And my point was that a case for harassment can't be made, even if the proscutor is bored, at least not where the incident took place.

I understand that your point is to make clear that no crime was committed in this case, and I accept that completely. I didn't actually mean to imply a crime had been committed when I speculated about what 33 might have meant.

What term do you think might be better to use to describe what the kid might have been trying to do if we assume that he wasn't simply motivated by purity of heart and the joy of spreading the Gospel?

I keep coming back to "harassment," not in the legal sense, but just because I think it's the word most of use would use, but it's lacking, especially because of the element of suggesting multiple events.

It appears that the teacher thought the kid had malicious intent in giving her that particular gift following their discussion about evolution. I suppose we could just say, proselytizing, but that doesn't make clear that he might have been doing it specifically because he had an audience he knew would be offended by his attempt.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Then I guess I misunderstood what you meant when you said:

And my point was that a case for harassment can't be made, even if the proscutor is bored, at least not where the incident took place.

Ah. I think it could be in VA. Or at least, it would go to civil trial. Or be settled. Whatever. I wonder if that is what she's thinking? It's def. a bad position for the school board/district though.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I understand that your point is to make clear that no crime was committed in this case, and I accept that completely. I didn't actually mean to imply a crime had been committed when I speculated about what 33 might have meant.

Oh I know. I was really responding more to RU OX Alum.

What term do you think might be better to use to describe what the kid might have been trying to do if we assume that he wasn't simply motivated by purity of heart and the joy of spreading the Gospel?

I keep coming back to "harassment," not in the legal sense, but just because I think it's the word most of use would use, but it's lacking, especially because of the element of suggesting multiple events.

I think harassment (in the non-legal sense) may well be the right or best word.