Prodigy, product of propaganda, or....? 10 yr old refuses to say Pledge of Allegiance

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

A 10-year old boy refuses to state the Pledge of Allegiance until "gays and lesbians" have the same liberties as heterosexuals.

The kid told the teacher she could "jump off a bridge". Dad says the kid quoted his first amendment right. He also said that kids at school call him a "gaywad".

So what do you think - smart, empathetic kid, a product of what he hears in the news, or taking on parental views?

What do you think?
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/....no.pledge.cnn

I listened to this boy and I think he figured it out on his own.

[UGAalum94]

I don't have much, if any problem, with people who decide not to say the pledge. Sometimes it bugs me a little when kids don't bother to stand not because they are taking a political or philosophical position, but because they'd rather finish math homework or something that particular day. If you're a pledger 90% of the time, go ahead set aside the 30 seconds to pledge, I think. I do understand that it's hard to actually give saying it conscious thought when you say it everyday under the exact same half-asleep circumstances.

But I'm not sure that giving this kid this big an audience is particularly awesome. I don't have any particular problem with his position, but I think there's a chance that he's just getting reinforcement for attention seeking behavior, rather than taking principled stands. Without knowing the kid, it's impossible to say, and we're certainly giving CNN what they are looking for: controversy in a clip.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

...and we're certainly giving CNN what they are looking for: controversy in a clip.

Where's the controversy? Has there been widespread public response or outrage that I have missed?

This isn't news worthy but it is perhaps worthy of a 2 page thread where people nod their head to it. Nothing deep or controversial there.

[PeppyGPhiB]

I remember when I was in elementary school there was a boy in my class who refused to stand up for the Pledge. He was a Jehovah Witness, and though he explained to the teacher that his religion prevented him from pledging anything to anyone other than God, the teacher wouldn't let it go and sent him to the principal's office. The kid must have won that fight, because the next day and the rest of the school year he remained seated during the Pledge.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Where's the controversy? Has there been widespread public response or outrage that I have missed?

This isn't news worthy but it is perhaps worthy of a 2 page thread where people nod their head to it. Nothing deep or controversial there.

I agree that it's not super-inflamatory, but why do you think it got picked up as a national news story? Is CNN just in the business of congratulating the youth of American when they refuse to say the pledge? Will there be a new feature about Kid Stand of the Day? It's hard to make the case that it's a particular important story to be a national story.

In terms of importance, Progressive Kid Notices U.S. Hypocrisy is about on the level of 10 year-old Newly Christian Kid Talks a Lot About Being Nice to the Disabled Girl Because It's What Jesus Would Do. Annoying Parents Suspected in Both Cases could be the subhead.

I think they ran it because CNN anticipated people discussing the points in the OP here. It would yield back and forth and trips to the CNN websites.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

I remember when I was in elementary school there was a boy in my class who refused to stand up for the Pledge. He was a Jehovah Witness, and though he explained to the teacher that his religion prevented him from pledging anything to anyone other than God, the teacher wouldn't let it go and sent him to the principal's office. The kid must have won that fight, because the next day and the rest of the school year he remained seated during the Pledge.

I'm sort of surprised the teacher was that ignorant.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Vi...on_v._Barnette

But I guess someone has to point it out to you for you to know. I feel like I learned that in high school, though.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Where's the controversy? Has there been widespread public response or outrage that I have missed?

This isn't news worthy but it is perhaps worthy of a 2 page thread where people nod their head to it. Nothing deep or controversial there.

I was simply musing as to whether or not typical a 10 year old has the insight to develop and stand up for a strong conviction on an issue as complicated as the application of the Pledge of Allegiance to gay rights to marriage.

[AGDee]

My daughter would have, at age 10. She's been very politically aware and opinionated since about age 8. It's not parental influence because her parents are of opposing viewpoints. I was pretty surprised when, in 8th grade, she did this day of silence for gay rights that she heard about somewhere on the internet. She ordered a packet in advance which had cards that she handed out all day to her teachers explaining why she was not speaking that day. I'd never have had the guts to do that.. I was simply too much of a conformist, especially at that age.

Her father continually accuses me of filling her with liberal BS, but I swear, although I explain why I feel the way I do, that kid is far more liberal than I am! I will not be surprised, with her interest in politics and journalism, if she becomes a political pundit.

[VandalSquirrel]

This article says he skipped a grade, so he's likely precocious enough to figure it out on his own. The teacher was also a substitute so maybe unaware of his level of intelligence and the whole situation might have been different.

http://www.arktimes.com/articles/art...0-3823aa79c021

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Look at his shirt!

My mother said she stopped saying the Pledge in school; my grandparents had absolutely nothing to do with it. If she was able to pull that off on her own free will over 50 years ago, why is anyone surprised that a kid today--who tend to be much more informed about how the news and politics than most of us were at his age--would do the same thing?

I'm sure some kids can and do put all of this together on their own (yay Dr. Phil ), but I've worked with lots of kids that age, and in my experience, gay rights simply isn't on the radar for most (any?) of them, much less translating that outrage about gay rights to protest by not saying the pledge. Granted, I'm in a part of the country where gay rights isn't that high profile an issue, but then again, so is this kid. Maybe I'm selling the kid short, but this just looks to me more like the kid picking up what he heard from mom and dad or somewhere else and running with it rather than completely putting it all together on his own. Not that that would be any different from how most kids that age start the process of forming opinions.

[LaneSig]

I have always told my students that they don't have to say the Pledge, but that they are not allowed to be disruptive or distracting to the other students.

Sub teacher should have called the parents and discussed it with them after the second day, if it was bothering her that much. As far as she knows, the student was playing the age-old game, "Let's act up for the sub teacher".

Student should have said something to mom and dad after the first day: "I don't want to stand for the Pledge; the sub says I have to; what should I do?" Sorry, but saying "Go jump in a lake" isn't the worst thing said, but is still disrespectful.

They were both in the wrong. It should not have went on for 4 days. Either one of them should have brought it up to the administration or parents to see how it could have been resolved.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

I have always told my students that they don't have to say the Pledge, but that they are not allowed to be disruptive or distracting to the other students.

This.

I'm a sub, and I don't mind if the kids don't say the Pledge or sing the National Anthem. But they will stand, and they will NOT be disruptive to the students, because that is just a lack of respect.

The most disruptive students I've had during the Pledge/National Anthem time have been the military kids (but that is a different story lol)

[DaemonSeid]

Sometimes it amazes and frightens me the things children under 13 are exposed to in this day and age to the point that I think, kids aren't kids anymore...at least not in the same manner I guess what I am used to seeing.

I guess it's a sign of getting older.

[AOII Angel]

Sounds like the sub was being a butthole. The kid got in trouble for talking back to a teacher. He can protest lack of gay rights to his heart's content, but he doesn't get to be disrespectful to teachers. The sub, however, needs to be instructed to leave kids alone who don't want to say the pledge for whatever reason. Like they're going to fix the classroom in the two days they're teaching!

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Look at his shirt!

My mother said she stopped saying the Pledge in school; my grandparents had absolutely nothing to do with it. If she was able to pull that off on her own free will over 50 years ago, why is anyone surprised that a kid today--who tend to be much more informed about how the news and politics than most of us were at his age--would do the same thing?

Exalt.

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

I was simply musing as to whether or not typical a 10 year old has the insight to develop and stand up for a strong conviction on an issue as complicated as the application of the Pledge of Allegiance to gay rights to marriage.

This is around the age where children start to question everything theyre told as fact. Discovering that Santa and the tooth fairy aren't real turns into thinking "omg my parents lies to me, what else have they lied about?"

then it turns into "this history book lies! this teacher lies! everyone is lying, why should i believe this?"

If anything, we should applaud that children, young adults, are able to make these connections and engage in this discourse. its awkward and uncomfortable, but what isnt?