Dr. Henry Louis Gates Arrested

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This was my initial response to the story. Gates was understandably angry and probably felt a "get the hell outta my house...do you know who the hell I am" attitude would fly with the officers.

Maybe it would have if he were white as long as he, as a white man, didn't put his hands on the officers. Who knows. I've seen white males with professional clout be extremely obnoxious with police officers, only for the officers to give them a pass because they are "somebody" in the community. It doesn't always happen but people are looking at patterns of behavior and not what happens 100% of the time.

As for the neighbor not recognizing him, that happens. I don't know the climate of that neighborhood and who the neighbor is. It is often the case that an unrecognizable Black male neighbor in a predominantly white neighborhood is more likely to be looked at suspiciously than an unrecognizable white male neighbor based on people's images of criminality. Again, this is based on patterns of behavior and not what happens 100% of the time.

As for racism, this is yet another incident that is way too introductory textbook for me to automatically call it racism. Either way, the actions of the neighbor and the actions of the officers can't necessarily be lumped together.

Agreed on much of this. As KSigRC alluded, the neighborhood is a very affluent one, filled mostly with Harvard faculty, white collar professionals (lawyers, doctors, businesspeople), and probably a few of the old-money Cambridge families. I think the house itself is Harvard-owned, and some of the other houses on that street are owned and provided to faculty. I would also imagine that his neighbors knew that he lived in the area.

The NYT article doesn't really make clear the order of things; I could understand him being frustrated and pretty upset that people were saying he didn't belong in his home. His reaction is also what I would expect from anyone who is famous, prominent or powerful within the community - someone less famous and less prominent (white or black) would have probably been more likely to just go along with the police questioning.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Agreed on much of this. As KSigRC alluded, the neighborhood is a very affluent one, filled mostly with Harvard faculty, white collar professionals (lawyers, doctors, businesspeople), and probably a few of the old-money Cambridge families. I think the house itself is Harvard-owned, and some of the other houses on that street are owned and provided to faculty. I would also imagine that his neighbors knew that he lived in the area.

The NYT article doesn't really make clear the order of things; I could understand him being frustrated and pretty upset that people were saying he didn't belong in his home. His reaction is also what I would expect from anyone who is famous, prominent or powerful within the community - someone less famous and less prominent (white or black) would have probably been more likely to just go along with the police questioning.

It's weird. Last night, you could read the police report for yourself online, but I can't find it today. I was aware I was reading only one side of the event, but I'm pretty sure that's where I read that the officer encouraged Gates to come outside. Maybe I'm misremembering.

And now, I'm about to stray into stereotypes of people I don't know:

When I think of African-American intellectuals, Henry Louis Gates would have been last on my list (not that it's a long list) of who I'd expect to flip out in a potentially ambiguous situation. Cornel West, sure. Houston Baker, sure. But I think of Henry Louis Gates as the patient, ever cautious, as likely to examine his own biases as accuse someone else, kind of guy.

But if I had just returned by cab from the airport after a flight from China, I'd probably not be at my emotional best either.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

But if I had just returned by cab from the airport after a flight from China, I'd probably not be at my emotional best either.

Same here. Also, his emotional best when he's at home is probably different than his emotional best as "Dr. Henry Louis Gates."

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

The article in Time mentioned another incident which happened 25 years ago. If one questionable incident happens every 25 years or so, how is that evidence of a pattern of conduct?

Both stories are plausible. If you get loud and obnoxious while conversing with a police officer, you are lucky to be walking away from that encounter not in handcuffs. I don't care what race you are. Being an Harvard professor doesn't make you special in that respect either.

Even if you believe Gates' account, both men were acting like asses and one of those men had a badge and handcuffs. At the end of the day, that trumps an Harvard ID card.

I have to agree...I was gonna post this myself but I read it and the first thing I said was...WHY DIDN'T HE SHOW HIS LICENSE? Anything with his information that showed that you live there would have been MORE than suffice to get the police of of his back.

Sorry, no racism here... just one loud dumb guy who should have complied.

(that's what I see from the article)

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I have to agree...I was gonna post this myself but I read it and the first thing I said was...WHY DIDN'T HE SHOW HIS LICENSE? Anything with his information that showed that you live there would have been MORE than suffice to get the police of of his back.

He probably thought that 1) being in a Harvard-owned neighborhood + 2) showing a Harvard ID would equal the police just giving it up and leaving him alone.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

He probably thought that 1) being in a Harvard-owned neighborhood + 2) showing a Harvard ID would equal the police just giving it up and leaving him alone.

EXACTLY!!!!!

It's doesn't mean anything until you show adequate proof of residence!

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I have to agree...I was gonna post this myself but I read it and the first thing I said was...WHY DIDN'T HE SHOW HIS LICENSE? Anything with his information that showed that you live there would have been MORE than suffice to get the police of of his back.

Sorry, no racism here... just one loud dumb guy who should have complied.

(that's what I see from the article)

He did show identification and it did not get the officer off of his back.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

He did show identification and it did not get the officer off of his back.

Pay attention to what I and others said...he showed his HARVARD I.D. according to the article. NOT HIS DRIVERS LICENSE OR ANY PROOF OF RESIDENCE. that is more than likely what the officer wanted to see... PROOF. OF. RESIDENCE.

I don't know what is on a Harvard I.D. but I am QUITE sure that it was not enough proof to convince the officer that he lived in the house.

Hell, I can show up at someone house with an ID badge...that doesn't prove that I live there.

Argue this all you want but according to the article, the officer had the right to detain him until he was certain that a crime was not being committed.

Cleberities and Ph.Ds (as well as the combination) have broken laws before, you know.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Pay attention to what I and others said...he showed his HARVARD I.D. according to the article. NOT HIS DRIVERS LICENSE OR ANY PROOF OF RESIDENCE. that is more than likely what the officer wanted to see... PROOF. OF. RESIDENCE.

DS, you might wanna read the article again:

According to his lawyer, Professor Gates told the sergeant that he lived there and showed his Massachusetts driver’s license and his Harvard identification card, but Sergeant Crowley still did not seem to believe that Professor Gates lived in the home, a few blocks from Harvard Square.

Anywho, I'm glad the charges have been dropped. We'll never know if it was a race issue that made the police keep badgering him once he complied. And really, if I'd just gotten home after traveling all the way from China and had to deal with that foolishnes, I may have gotten "disorderly" as well. Who knows, maybe the police had a vendetta against Harvard professors. Or they didn't like residents of Ware Street. Fine, it may not have been racial, so I won't say it was. But I think it was and I hope the CPD learn better how to handle home visits better (when what you've been called for is resolved, LEAVE) and that people learn how to better deal when being questioned by police.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

He is saying that the arrest was racially motivated. Based on the information in the article, I would agree. Yet another situation where people don't believe that a black man can live in a nice neighborhood or own a nice home. And I seriously wonder why this neighbor who called the cops didn't even recognize or know her own neighbor. I hope he pushes this further.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/us/21gates.html

I'm sure race played some role - after all, the caller identified two black men, so regardless of the officer's biases it would be the identifying factor. I'm not nearly as interested in the officer's response - after all, he's responding to a report - but rather the original call . . . would the caller have reported two white men in the same situation? Certainly, if she thought it was a legitimately suspicious behavior, it's incumbent upon her to report it - is it suspicious if it's two white guys?

I can imagine being pissed (during the incident) if I were Dr. Gates - it's my home, and I'm not doing anything wrong in the slightest. Many police departments train officers to enter homes very liberally compared with privacy/Constitutional rights, and I'd imagine Dr. Gates felt he knew his rights better than most - that doesn't mean the officer did the right/wrong thing, but rather that it's a factor leading to potential anger. I'd be irate, and probably would have been cited for interference with official acts at the least (hence why the officer's behavior is comparatively uninteresting). At the same time, I wouldn't be able to really "blame" the officer, unless he got physical or abusive with me. He doesn't know.

I would guess that the charges will be dropped, if for nothing else than to allow for a public apology and to save face for the CPD. Past that, though, how much further should he really 'push' this?

While Boston has a reputation for being a 'racist' town (which is probably less founded than most would expect; it's likely based on a few high-profile douche moves, like the Red Sox being the last MLB team to integrate, or the South Boston/Roxbury clashes), the Cambridge area is relatively affluent while still being relatively diverse, due to the colleges and surrounding corporate entities. This seems less like the CPD being institutional racists, and rather an example of the lingering nationwide notion that crime is a black issue (and subsequent white fears/fearmongering).

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I'm sure race played some role - after all, the caller identified two black men, so regardless of the officer's biases it would be the identifying factor. I'm not nearly as interested in the officer's response - after all, he's responding to a report - but rather the original call . . . would the caller have reported two white men in the same situation? Certainly, if she thought it was a legitimately suspicious behavior, it's incumbent upon her to report it - is it suspicious if it's two white guys?

I can imagine being pissed (during the incident) if I were Dr. Gates - it's my home, and I'm not doing anything wrong in the slightest. Many police departments train officers to enter homes very liberally compared with privacy/Constitutional rights, and I'd imagine Dr. Gates felt he knew his rights better than most - that doesn't mean the officer did the right/wrong thing, but rather that it's a factor leading to potential anger. I'd be irate, and probably would have been cited for interference with official acts at the least (hence why the officer's behavior is comparatively uninteresting).

I would guess that the charges will be dropped, if for nothing else than to allow for a public apology and to save face for the CPD. Past that, though, how much further should he really 'push' this?

When I say "push" I mean there should be more of an investigation into how often this is occurring. I wonder if the charges really WILL be dropped or if they will "make an example out of him," since he informed them that they didn't know who they were messing with.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

When I say "push" I mean there should be more of an investigation into how often this is occurring.

Seems fair enough, as long as we're willing to accept every answer, ranging from "every day" to "almost never" as plausible.

I wonder if the charges really WILL be dropped or if they will "make an example out of him," since he informed them that they didn't know who they were messing with.

It seems like a LOT of trouble to make an example of somebody, but I guess it's possible.

One of my pet peeves is the "You don't know who you're dealing with" trope - ironically (in this case), it seems like the rallying cry of the perceived privileged. From that standpoint, I can see why some feel he should use his unique platform to fight, but I'd prefer if he avoided the potentially-hypocritical route of "don't you know who I am?!?".

[SydneyK]

Here's the thing:

If a neighbor didn't recognize me as the owner of my home, and said neighbor saw me force my way into my home, I wouldn't give the cops grief when they responded to the call. I think I might even be grateful that they came to check out the situation.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

Here's the thing:

If a neighbor didn't recognize me as the owner of my home, and said neighbor saw me force my way into my home, I wouldn't give the cops grief when they responded to the call. I think I might even be grateful that they came to check out the situation.

Ditto.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

Here's the thing:

If a neighbor didn't recognize me as the owner of my home, and said neighbor saw me force my way into my home, I wouldn't give the cops grief when they responded to the call. I think I might even be grateful that they came to check out the situation.

I think I'd react the same way and I'd ask the officer what information he needed to resolved the situation, like a photo ID with my address or whatever.

But if I were a member of a group who got hassled by the cops a lot, and I was just entering my own home, I'm sure I'd probably be really angry and maybe react differently.

I think Gates overreacted if we're trying to use some objective standard for the policeman responding to the complaint, but I think that the officer made a pretty grave error arresting Gates. It doesn't seem to me that overreacting, being angry, and attempting to professionally threaten a guy reacting to call are actually crimes, and the officer should have tried really hard not to compound the situation. The police escalated the situation and it's hard not to see that alone as a pretty serious error, even if the policeman responding isn't guilty of the racist conduct that Gates assumed he was. I also think the the cop getting Gates to go outside was pretty cheap because it just set Gates up to be arrested for doing something publicly that wasn't actionable inside the house.

I think we're seeing a clash of egos more than we're seeing a great example of racist police behavior.