Macbook vs Netbooks

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

If I had purchased a similar PC laptop back in 2003, it definitely wouldn't have lasted 6years and I would have needed to replace it and its replacement too.

My lawschool laptop (a Dell 600m), purchased in the Summer of '05 is still working like a champ. Runs all the software I need it to and is still functional in every way except that it needs a new battery. I used the heck out of this thing and carried it with me in a soft bag full of big 'ol law books just about every day. It's survived the extreme Oklahoma weather and is really in fine condition.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Little32

Hmmm.... This is not necessarily always the case. I have a Sony Vaio right now that I got in about 2003 and it is still working well. I am thinking about a new one (a pc), but just because I would like something more portable not because I need it.

Before that, I had a Toshiba that lasted from 1997 to 2003, so unless my two computers have been the exception...pcs must not be as fragile as all this.

Plus, I do hear some rumblings of dissatisfaction from some of the Mac owners I know, with at least two of them saying that they are going back to pcs with their next purchase--though I could not give you their reasons why.

The only people I know who went back to PCs are either people who build their own computers on a regular basis, therefore knowing what they're doing, or those who have to buy computers for their offices and figure that the low cost is a reason to stock their businesses with PCs.

Most entry-level PCs can't handle the heavy-duty video and graphics that the entry-level Macs can. Since most of my work involves that, I had to replace my PCs in college on a bi-annual basis because they'd be obsolete. With my Mac, I've had it for six years and have put almost every major graphic/CAD/design program on it, and it still runs like the day I bought it. If you're doing basic academic work, you can probably keep a PC for a long time. My parents had their PC for about 8 years. It all depends on what you do with it.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

My lawschool laptop (a Dell 600m), purchased in the Summer of '05 is still working like a champ. Runs all the software I need it to and is still functional in every way except that it needs a new battery. I used the heck out of this thing and carried it with me in a soft bag full of big 'ol law books just about every day. It's survived the extreme Oklahoma weather and is really in fine condition.

Kevin, you should be able to find that battery online or on ebay. Dont wait too long because believe it or not, bad batteries on occasion can do nasty things to your motherboard.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I guess for me, with my Mac, I do love having the Boot Camp option which allows one to run Windows on a Mac. I think the biggest issue with Windows is not necessarily the OS altho that tends to have its issues, but the hardware.

There are 1000s of hardware configurations that any one person can have to run any Windows OS on their system and that's why you have the 1000s of problems that keeps Geek Squad and etc in business. Not that Mac doesn't have the same kinds of failures but the rate is considerably less.

Unless you're claiming Apple's (3rd-party) components are superior (hint: they buy from the same supply chains as PCs), then this is indeed a software/Windows issue.

Here's the thing: most computer issues are eminently predictable, and fall into a few main categories:

-Software issues (setup, virus/spyware) - this is entirely operator error, and any differences between Macs and PCs are incidental, rather than an innate superiority/inferiority
-Basic system failure due to 'old age' (this would be a motherboard dying, failed power supply, hard drive, etc.) . . . other than the actual processors, there isn't a fundamental hardware difference between PCs and Macs
-Laptop errors (screens breaking, etc.) - Macs might be superior here over certain, low-end PC brands, but I'm not sure the difference is significant.

The bottom line is that Apple has spent years defining their product as a "premium" product, one worthy of extra expense - if you like MacOS and prefer not to be able to 'customize' (which, for most people, means 'eventually fuck up') your system, or if you just think it looks cool, it's definitely worth the dollars. But anecdotes about Apple's lack of failures on a systemic level ring hollow - our company is split between PC and Mac users, and we've had far more problems with the Mac side, both in terms of hardware and software issues.

That reminds me, one of my frat brothers called me last week angry because he can't find a used Macbook Pro 15" on craigslist for under a G. I laughed and told him...that's the sign of a good product. Take a Dell with the same specs that was $700 dollars last year and you will be lucky if you can get 1/2 for it right now.

This is actually patently false - it's because similar Dells are basically given away, generally via corporate buyers. Value is a function of supply and demand, which may or may not be based on product quality - here, there's a perception issue ("Macs are cool, Dells are dime-a-dozen") and a product that has flooded the market. Seriously, I have five mid-line Dell workstation laptops sitting in a box in my office right now - they're far more capable than a similarly-priced Mac and just as reliable, it's just that there isn't a market. Dell's ads suck.

[DaemonSeid]

Why are they sitting in a box? LOL

Also I am not claiming that Mac's parts are superior but when you have so many ways to configure PCs (100's of brands of memory, HDD, CPUs<Athlon's incarnations vs Intel's incarnations> cooling systems) , then yes I tend to think that is the reason why the hardware failure rate could be so high on Windows machines.

I have to disagree with you on Dells....hehe and this is just purely my opinion based on what i have seen come out form them in the past 3 years, but I remember earlier in the decade, Dells were THE BRAND to get because at that point, the machines ran with few problems. But the last 3 years, from what I have dealt with (faulty memory errors, burnt out motherboards, etc.) and also with as you also stated, they are being given away, most Dells are 'junk'.

If I ever have to recommend a PC to anyone, I generally say Acers and HPs are your best bets and Asus brands are catching up.

I am however wondering when the gap will begin to close with Macs and PCs now that within the last few years, Intel chips are running the machines and people are starting to gravitate between both.

But let's come back a sec...to anyone who has or is thinking about getting a netbook. How many of you think that this will change the ideas of laptops as we know it?

Especially in a few years when solid state drives will hopefully have caught up to the conventional harddrive...will netbooks be 'the thing' to have?

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

But let's come back a sec...to anyone who has or is thinking about getting a netbook. How many of you think that this will change the ideas of laptops as we know it?

Since I have one, I'll answer. I really don't think it will change the idea of laptops. Netbooks were designed for a specific purpose. From my understanding, they were not necessarily designed to replace a laptop. Have BlackBerries changed how we think about laptops and telephones? To an extent, but the Blackberry market just made it easier to communicate. It did not make traditional phones and computers obsolete.

Especially in a few years when solid state drives will hopefully have caught up to the conventional harddrive...will netbooks be 'the thing' to have?

The netbook will be the 'thing to have' if you need one. Again, like BlackBerries, if you need one, then you have one. I personally don't need a BlackBerry so I don't have one.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Most entry-level PCs can't handle the heavy-duty video and graphics that the entry-level Macs can. Since most of my work involves that, I had to replace my PCs in college on a bi-annual basis because they'd be obsolete. With my Mac, I've had it for six years and have put almost every major graphic/CAD/design program on it, and it still runs like the day I bought it. If you're doing basic academic work, you can probably keep a PC for a long time. My parents had their PC for about 8 years. It all depends on what you do with it.

Well, this is different. Most of the folks that I know who do graphic intensive work sing Macs praises. But I know quite a few that do this work who use and love pcs too.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Little32

Well, this is different. Most of the folks that I know who do graphic intensive work sing Macs praises. But I know quite a few that do this work who use and love pcs too.

I kind of feel the same way...you do so many upgrades on your PC only to still have it obsolete in < 5 years.

The last desktop I bought 2 years ago, just within the first year, I upgraded:

1. CPU to the highest standard on the board
2. the video card 2x ( I watch and record a lot of video)
3. Memory...of course
4. added an external hard drive (what most people should have now anyway.

The Mac, out of the box, the only thing I have done thus far is maxed the memory on the board and it handles the rest.

the G5 desktop can preconfigured and hasn't been upgraded since and still runs pretty much the same way.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Little32

Well, this is different. Most of the folks that I know who do graphic intensive work sing Macs praises. But I know quite a few that do this work who use and love pcs too.

Modern PC architecture (and the changing of Mac procs) has narrowed the gap significantly, but not necessarily on the "Best Buy" out-of-box/OEM models . . . especially with the floating-point/vector change-over for graphic design software. At this point, the preference for Macs is probably because that's what the majority of professionals started on.

Seriously, just like with automobiles, personal preference trumps just about everything.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Modern PC architecture (and the changing of Mac procs) has narrowed the gap significantly, but not necessarily on the "Best Buy" out-of-box/OEM models . . . especially with the floating-point/vector change-over for graphic design software. At this point, the preference for Macs is probably because that's what the majority of professionals started on.

Seriously, just like with automobiles, personal preference trumps just about everything.

Kind of amazing sometimes how Macs (even though they have their own stores) have such a small shelf space in Best Buy....

Just on another tangent, I find it bothersome when I go to Best Buy to do PC shopping in general how so few of them know how to sell the products they have and how so many people are willing to buy it just because it's there.

I tend to tell folks that buying a PC is like also buying a car. Take someone that knows PCs with you so they can speak the languane and if the person that is trying to sell it to you don't know thier stuff move on.

I had a friend of mine that recently bought an HP....had nice specs and everything..bought it because it was on sale...was very diappointed with the battery life....long story...suffice to ssay AFTER he read the reviews, AFTER he bought it did he understand why it was on sale...

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

At this point, the preference for Macs is probably because that's what the majority of professionals started on.

Seriously, just like with automobiles, personal preference trumps just about everything.

Interesting you would say that. Macs were the first computer I ever used, but that was in elementary school, when Apple had the schools outreach program (back when all the computers came complete with the big floppy drive and Oregon Trail loaded on the machine). I actually find PCs far more easy and intuitive to use, probably because that's really what I grew up using for practical work such as typing out assignments and making presentations to my class; Macs were what we learned to type on in elem. school (think "home row" and "keep your feet flat on the floor").

My university requires its business majors to work on PCs. But I see that a bunch of the freshmen want to know why, and they're insisting on bringing a Mac with them. Well, one of the reasons why the school probably wants them to use a PC is that in the corporate world, almost everyone works on a PC. Macs are for people in digital arts, graphic design, the "creatives" in advertising agencies (but not even the account people) and things like that. Macs are just too expensive for most companies to purchase over and over, not just the computers, but the servers and stuff, too.

Oh, and whomever was saying that Dell's quality has gone down is totally right. Five-10 years ago they were pretty great, but my mom got a brand new one at around Christmas and the hard drive died ONE MONTH later. She is now having issues with the second machine. Other than my old Dells, I've had some good work laptops from HP and Toshiba. IBMs are terrible.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Interesting you would say that. Macs were the first computer I ever used, but that was in elementary school, when Apple had the schools outreach program (back when all the computers came complete with the big floppy drive and Oregon Trail loaded on the machine). I actually find PCs far more easy and intuitive to use, probably because that's really what I grew up using for practical work such as typing out assignments and making presentations to my class; Macs were what we learned to type on in elem. school (think "home row" and "keep your feet flat on the floor").

My university requires its business majors to work on PCs. But I see that a bunch of the freshmen want to know why, and they're insisting on bringing a Mac with them. Well, one of the reasons why the school probably wants them to use a PC is that in the corporate world, almost everyone works on a PC. Macs are for people in digital arts, graphic design, the "creatives" in advertising agencies (but not even the account people) and things like that. Macs are just too expensive for most companies to purchase over and over, not just the computers, but the servers and stuff, too.

Oh, and whomever was saying that Dell's quality has gone down is totally right. Five-10 years ago they were pretty great, but my mom got a brand new one at around Christmas and the hard drive died ONE MONTH later. She is now having issues with the second machine. Other than my old Dells, I've had some good work laptops from HP and Toshiba. IBMs are terrible.

What kind of issues is she having?

hey let me ask something to everyone replying...is there anyone here using Linux, Ubuntu or Red hat? Also what do you think about the fact that Google is trying to make Chrome into an OS?

[AGDee]

I have a couple Ubuntu servers at work. I've considered installing it at home, but just haven't gotten around to it.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Seriously, just like with automobiles, personal preference trumps just about everything.

This seems to be key, if this thread is any indication.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Just on another tangent, I find it bothersome when I go to Best Buy to do PC shopping in general how so few of them know how to sell the products they have and how so many people are willing to buy it just because it's there.

I tend to tell folks that buying a PC is like also buying a car. Take someone that knows PCs with you so they can speak the languane and if the person that is trying to sell it to you don't know thier stuff move on.

I had a friend of mine that recently bought an HP....had nice specs and everything..bought it because it was on sale...was very diappointed with the battery life....long story...suffice to ssay AFTER he read the reviews, AFTER he bought it did he understand why it was on sale...

Unless they know a lot about computers, your average PC buyer is going for the cheapest option, which explains why some seem to fail almost right away.

When I made the decision to switch from PC to Mac, I compared the performance-level Mac laptop (at that time, a PowerBook G4) to a PC with the same specs and the Mac came out a little cheaper. That's not why I bought it--again, I'm in the creative industry and back in 2003 PCs hadn't quite gotten a handle on that industry (it's gotten better, though). Of course, most people see the $500 price difference between the entry-level Mac and the entry-level PC and don't realize that the entry-level Mac won't have to be replaced at a certain point. The difference between the entry-level Mac and a performance-level PC is a little less stark, though.