Phi Mu Houses

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

That's awesome, considering I graduated in 2005 and the sisters looked into it around 2000-2001. But I guess the person on the other line was lying when they told the girls about the law?

Are you going for sarcasm here? Because odds are, yes they were lying (or innocently passing on incorrect information) since there is no documentation anywhere, including in the one state where prostitution is legal of anti-brothel laws being written in such a way that sorority houses would be excluded. We've discussed this for 10 years on Greek Chat and not once has an actual statute shown up.

The only other websites that put brothel laws and Dearborn together go to a variety of porn sites.

So yes, the onus of proof is on you. Without proof it doesn't exist.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

But I guess the person on the other line was lying when they told the girls about the law?

Well, aside from the distinct possibility that the person on the other end of the line was right about housing being prohibited but wrong about why, did you talk to them yourself or did you hear second- (or third- or fourth-) hand what was said? Did that person actually say that "brothel" laws prohibited sorority houses or did they just say "the law" prohibits them (probably meaning zoning laws) and your sisters supplied the brothel part themselves because they'd heard about how brothel laws ban sorority houses some places?

[AlwaysSAI]

Hey! PhiMu10gammachi went to my Alma Mater!

Hello fellow spartan!

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Are you going for sarcasm here? Because odds are, yes they were lying (or innocently passing on incorrect information) since there is no documentation anywhere, including in the one state where prostitution is legal of anti-brothel laws being written in such a way that sorority houses would be excluded. We've discussed this for 10 years on Greek Chat and not once has an actual statute shown up.

The only other websites that put brothel laws and Dearborn together go to a variety of porn sites.

So yes, the onus of proof is on you. Without proof it doesn't exist.

Ha.

Fox 2 News just did a piece on Alpha Gamma Delta at Wayne State University. It seems they wanted to get a sorority house, but when they looked into it DETROIT HAS A BROTHEL LAW. Yes, it's outdated and old and yes they can appeal, but it is a true thing.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Ha.

Fox 2 News just did a piece on Alpha Gamma Delta at Wayne State University. It seems they wanted to get a sorority house, but when they looked into it DETROIT HAS A BROTHEL LAW. Yes, it's outdated and old and yes they can appeal, but it is a true thing.

Unless there's a citation, it still doesn't exist.

So "ha" all you like. But the burden of proof is still on you.

ETA: Also in your citation, please address why dorms are exempt, and how this law affects Dearborn as that was your original claim.

[PM_Mama00]

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...-20100810-wpms

Brothel Ordinance Prohibits WSU Sorority Sisters from Living Together
Updated: Tuesday, 10 Aug 2010, 9:07 PM EDT
Published : Tuesday, 10 Aug 2010, 9:08 PM EDT

By BILL GALLAGHER
myFOXDetroit.com

DETROIT - Members of the Alpha Gamma Delta sorority at Wayne State University hold their chapter meeting on campus. Recently, they looked into buying a house near the campus where many of the sorority sisters hoped to live. However, they ran into an old Detroit ordinance still on the books.

"I'm sort of smiling because it's humorous in the sense that we have all sorts of etiquette ordinances that are still on the books that never really been acted upon, and the ordinance that you're referring to stated that any more than seven or eight females in a house is considered as a brothel," said Wayne State University Police Chief Anthony Holt.

The ordinance from the 19th century, of course, does not apply to males and fraternity houses.

"That's nonsense, shenanigans," said Waye State student Shana Moss. "Doesn't make any sense."

Some see the old law as unfair and discriminatory.

"It's sexist," said Wayne State student Elena Callas. "Completely unfair."

Others find the old law literally laughable.

Wayne State student John Setser chuckled and said, "Wow. How old is that?"

The sorority sisters are looking at their options.

"(They) could get a change in ordinance or they could do sort of an application for a waiver of that ordinance that affects them," Holt said.

Dearborn and Detroit are very similar in ways of the law. I don't have the time or energy to do the proper investigating so you're gona have to deal with that and if you still don't believe it, then call them up yourself if you want to fight it that badly. Last time I checked I graduated college, and you're not my professor giving out an assignment. Get over yourself. You're wrong.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...-20100810-wpms



Dearborn and Detroit are very similar in ways of the law. I don't have the time or energy to do the proper investigating so you're gona have to deal with that and if you still don't believe it, then call them up yourself if you want to fight it that badly. Last time I checked I graduated college, and you're not my professor giving out an assignment. Get over yourself. You're wrong.

Lol. It's not about being over myself, it's about supporting your own argument.

Where's the law? I gave you Dearborn's municipal code.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

I have heard of similar ordinances locally (read in newspaper articles) that are technically preventing couples from having FOSTER CHILDREN. I don't think I'll be able to find the article because it's been months and don't ask me the exact language but it does have to do with non-related people residing together over a certain amount in order to prevent non-zoned boarding or something similar. The city promised to look into the matter.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

I have heard of similar ordinances locally (read in newspaper articles) that are technically preventing couples from having FOSTER CHILDREN. I don't think I'll be able to find the article because it's been months and don't ask me the exact language but it does have to do with non-related people residing together over a certain amount in order to prevent non-zoned boarding or something similar. The city promised to look into the matter.

There are sometimes non-related persons zoning issues. The vast majority of those exclude fraternity and sorority houses. That's vastly different from the whole "brothel law" thing.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

The fact that I meant to point out was that it is IRRELAVENT what the people inside the house are actually doing (boarding or not), they just must be related if it is more than a certain number. I did't mean that it was a brothel law. I never said it was. Just that it was similar in its purpose overall and that things do exist to prevent x number of unrelated people from cohabiting together to prevent y result regardless of whether or not the situation is one that would normally be perfectly acceptable, whether a sorority chapter or a foster child.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

The fact that I meant to point out was that it is IRRELAVENT what the people inside the house are actually doing (boarding or not), they just must be related if it is more than a certain number. I did't mean that it was a brothel law. I never said it was. Just that it was similar in its purpose overall and that things do exist to prevent x number of unrelated people from cohabiting together to prevent y result regardless of whether or not the situation is one that would normally be perfectly acceptable, whether a sorority chapter or a foster child.

I get that, I'm agreeing with you. Those laws do exist although generally speaking they seem to exempt sorority and fraternity houses specifically from their restrictions. It wasn't a contradiction, simply a reference back to the rest of the thread.

[CarolinaCutie]

Originally Posted by phimu10gammachi

there is where i go to school... im not sure where you go, but we were founded first on our campus and we have tried with no avail to get one as far as i know. so we, nor another sorority, can get one....

This is not true. But it doesn't matter now, does it?

[AEMagnolia08]

I have your blog saved on my favorites! i love looking at all of the houses.. it just makes me want to take a road trip and see all of them!

[PhiMu_Gator]

I've heard of this "brothel law" thing quite a lot, my mother went to the University of Miami where no sororities were allowed to have housing, but fraternities were. There was a myth that the lady who owned all the land the fraternities' houses were built on was rejected from a sorority and refused to allow any to live on that land when she donated it/sold it to the school. Interesting tid bit!

However, there are SOME brother laws out there that may pop up around the country (I've heard of them via sisters in law school), but they aren't as adhered to.

But, I DO KNOW for a fact the unrelated persons ordinance gets many a sorority. In Gainesville, we cannot have more than 3 unrelated persons living together. Many times and on a majority of campuses, sororities have houses ON CAMPUS. This means sorority houses can be considered "residence halls". All of the sororities at UF are required to have a house mother, which meets the requirements for us to have our own "RA".

I think we're all a bit confused about what the brothel law even is. The typical name is the unrelated persons ordinance that just caught on the name of "the brothel law". There are a few that are explicitly called that, but I think people just threw an unofficial name onto it.

So, there's the facts as much as I could find and have had experience with. Maybe we're all talking about the same thing, but didn't even know it! =)

[33girl]

Originally Posted by PhiMu_Gator

However, there are SOME brothel laws out there that may pop up around the country (I've heard of them via sisters in law school), but they aren't as adhered to.

Citation please.

This is how this rumour keeps perpetuating. "I heard of it," "someone told me about it," etc etc.