Michael Vick and Job offer

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by kstar

They used to refuse felons from serving, and still should. I don't think he has suffered enough, because he still doesn't think that he did anything wrong. To him, it was just a dog.

This is kind of a bizarre thing to say - first, because I haven't seen anything resembling these statements since he started serving his sentence (so you seem to be reading a lot into this). Can you cite anything in particular that gives you this impression? Or is it just general cynicism?

Second, the "to him, it was just a dog" portion seems like an odd choice of damnation - to you, it's a family member. To him, it's not. Why is he more 'wrong' in the abstract (i.e. removed from the actual cruelty)?

The guy's pretty f-ed in general - it'll take something extreme on his part to entice a team to suffer the PR backlash of taking a chance on him years after his last productive season (and there were general questions about productivity even then). I can relate to the anger and outrage, especially from dedicated animal lovers, but the guy's served his time and will now serve a very public penance. That seems like enough for me - he's lost the overwhelming majority of everything.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

This is kind of a bizarre thing to say - first, because I haven't seen anything resembling these statements since he started serving his sentence (so you seem to be reading a lot into this). Can you cite anything in particular that gives you this impression? Or is it just general cynicism?

Second, the "to him, it was just a dog" portion seems like an odd choice of damnation - to you, it's a family member. To him, it's not. Why is he more 'wrong' in the abstract (i.e. removed from the actual cruelty)?

The guy's pretty f-ed in general - it'll take something extreme on his part to entice a team to suffer the PR backlash of taking a chance on him years after his last productive season (and there were general questions about productivity even then). I can relate to the anger and outrage, especially from dedicated animal lovers, but the guy's served his time and will now serve a very public penance. That seems like enough for me - he's lost the overwhelming majority of everything.

His "apology" was ridiculous, he spoke of himself in the third person like it wasn't him that did these horrible acts, but another "Michael Vick." Second, it just wasn't sincere. Finally, his actions since then haven't reflected proper remorse.

I realize that different cultures (even inside the US) view animals differently, but the crimes he committed go far beyond cruelty to sociopathy.

I also have issues in general with the idea of felons serving in the military, which should be full of noble, courageous men and women.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by kstar

His "apology" was ridiculous, he spoke of himself in the third person like it wasn't him that did these horrible acts, but another "Michael Vick." Second, it just wasn't sincere. Finally, his actions since then haven't reflected proper remorse.

Totally serious (and not challenging you at all): what could he have done, from prison and while fighting over his money, to "reflect proper remorse" in your eyes? I suspect the answer is (and should be) "nothing" but I'm genuinely curious.

I also have issues in general with the idea of felons serving in the military, which should be full of noble, courageous men and women.

I applaud your idealism, but this isn't even remotely the case today, is it?

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

If I was his agent I would tell him to:

1. Volunteer for a tour of duty in Iraq
2. Train hard for special forces
3. Write a book about his life after he got out of the military
4. Sign million dollar NFL contract as he is now "reformed"

I think that he's suffered enough already and would like to see the guy succeed. Its funny that we allow people who have taken other people's lives (Leonard Little, Ray Lewis) in the NFL but if you hurt a dog then they send out the lynch mob.

I agreed with you right up til you got to Ray Lewis.

There was (and still is) never 100% proof that he killed anyone.
Overwheming testimony never showed that he stabbed anyone but acted as a peacemeker thru the incident.

He was tried and found innocent for the alleged crime. Also, he is paying a settlement to the family of the murder victim....so let it go.

You would have been better served by saying Lawrence Phillips or Rae Carruth (although Rae is RIGHT where he belongs)

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I agreed with you right up til you got to Ray Lewis.

There was (and still is) never 100% proof that he killed anyone.
Overwheming testimony never showed that he stabbed anyone but acted as a peacemeker thru the incident.

He was tried and found innocent for the alleged crime. Also, he is paying a settlement to the family of the murder victim....so let it go.

You would have been better served by saying Lawrence Phillips or Rae Carruth (although Rae is RIGHT where he belongs)

I know parties involved in the settlement and he is very responsible for what happened. I don't want to give too much away and get anyone in trouble but he deserves to be in jail, not on the football field.
Rae is not where he belongs- he belongs six feet underground.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

I know parties involved in the settlement and he is very responsible for what happened. I don't want to give too much away and get anyone in trouble but he deserves to be in jail, not on the football field.
Rae is not where he belongs- he belongs six feet underground.

PhiGam.

With respect to what you said...if you were there and you saw what happened...cool...if not then let's leave it at conjecture...otherwise, a jury found him not guilty and then we KIM.

Now Rae...nah....let's leave him 6 feet above so that every day he breathes he can think about the baby whose life he ruined and the mother that he killed.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

PhiGam.

With respect to what you said...if you were there and you saw what happened...cool...if not then let's leave it at conjecture...otherwise, a jury found him not guilty and then we KIM.

Now Rae...nah....let's leave him 6 feet above so that every day he breathes he can think about the baby whose life he ruined and the mother that he killed.

Well, knowing what I know there's no way that I can pretend to not hate him.

[TexasWSP]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

I think that he's suffered enough already and would like to see the guy succeed. Its funny that we allow people who have taken other people's lives (Leonard Little, Ray Lewis) in the NFL but if you hurt a dog then they send out the lynch mob.

Had Roger Goodell been commish in 1998 you can bet that Leonard Little wouldn't have played football again.
Nobody is giving him a free pass, but it was a different game than it was now........now you have to actually own up to your mistakes.

Ray Lewis was never convicted of any wrong doing and, from what I can remember, there was zero evidecne to sugest he had any role in the stabbing deaths resulting from the fight that broke out. The two guys with him were acquitted too. He has an excellent reputation within the leage and is a big time charity guy.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by TexasWSP

Had Roger Goodell been commish in 1998 you can bet that Leonard Little wouldn't have played football again.

Well hey...if Paris Hilton can walk for DUI...............

[TexasWSP]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Well hey...if Paris Hilton can walk for DUI...............

True dat

[KSigkid]

What the guy did was terrible, and he deserved the penalty he received. But, at this point I think he's served his time and should be able to pursue whatever employment he chooses.

Now...if NFL teams are staying away from him for a legitimate reason (bad PR, fear of repeated behavior, concerns about actual football skills at this point, etc.), that's a different story. He was a young athlete who made a series of horrible choices, and lost his image (as well as part of the prime of his career) as a result.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

What the guy did was terrible, and he deserved the penalty he received. But, at this point I think he's served his time and should be able to pursue whatever employment he chooses.

Now...if NFL teams are staying away from him for a legitimate reason (bad PR, fear of repeated behavior, concerns about actual football skills at this point, etc.), that's a different story. He was a young athlete who made a series of horrible choices, and lost his image (as well as part of the prime of his career) as a result.

...look at Kobe...if that isn't a comeback story, I don't know what is.

[DaemonSeid]

Either way, this says something about what public percetion is after you have 'paid for your crimes'.

You pretty much get a scarlet letter for the rest of your life which is why in some cases we tend to see a lot of repeat offenders.

Agreed?

[PeppyGPhiB]

Michael Vick is done in the NFL. No team wants to risk the bad PR, and there WOULD be a ton of bad PR. Fans just don't want to cheer for someone like him, and no team wants someone so toxic that not even the hometown fans will cheer for him.

Even if he one day wrote a book and went on a speaking tour promoting how he's "reformed," he'd be so rusty (and getting old for a pro athlete) that I don't think teams would view him as a physical asset anymore.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Michael Vick is done in the NFL. No team wants to risk the bad PR, and there WOULD be a ton of bad PR. Fans just don't want to cheer for someone like him, and no team wants someone so toxic that not even the hometown fans will cheer for him.

Even if he one day wrote a book and went on a speaking tour promoting how he's "reformed," he'd be so rusty (and getting old for a pro athlete) that I don't think teams would view him as a physical asset anymore.

Well, I am eating my words now, because the Philadelphia Eagles just signed Michael Vick today. As you can imagine, there are a lotta people who aren't happy about it, especially Eagles fans. I sure wouldn't want to work in the team's PR office.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...88_vick14.html

"When news of Vick's signing circulated in the press box during the first half of the Eagles' preseason opener against New England, even the team's public relations staff seemed surprised.

The stadium was buzzing by halftime as word spread. Fans standing on the concourse were in disbelief. One guy wondered how quickly he'd be able to buy a Vick jersey. Another asked if this was a joke."


I do stick by my original statement that I think this is a bad idea for the team that signed him. Who wants to cheer for this guy? It's hard to feel pride in an organization that brings in someone like this.