Judge dismisses Wyoming KKG lawsuit

[AZTheta]

navane I have attended conventions and witnessed the closed ranks from TPTB when members voiced their concerns or disagreements with policies. It’s an example of “the sorority within the sorority” that I’m certain other old-timers also know. You are right, holding the threat of membership termination over the heads of those who dissent is particularly ugly. So like many of my Panhellenic sisters I disagree with my checkbook.

I think you understood my comment about the courts not interfering in private organizations. You explained it better and I appreciate that.

[ladybug12]

Totally agree, I am there with you my Panhellenic sister!

[naraht]

Serious question, what would be the consequences (other than an *X-ton* of screaming) to one of the members of the NPC allowing *all* students to join. (Yes, even the young man who has never thought of himself as anything other than male his entire life). Assume this actually passes at a full National Convention. Would the NPC automatically remove them from membership? I don't think the Federal or State governments would care. The most effect from a Legal Standpoint *might* be to screw up some of the bequests (sort of like what happened to BSA when they went fully co-ed).

[carnation]

Seems like the NPC would love it if we opened all our doors to the whole world. No rush needed--if you're psycho, if you have a .85 GPA, if you have a long police record--all would be welcome!

[Cheerio]

Creeds and rituals of an NPC group are usually strong traditions, while constitutions and laws of an NPC group are variables that can be changed by vote.

Would properly voting to allow *all* to join one individual NPC group violate the spirit of any ritual or creed of same group? Only the members of that group can truly decide, since rituals and some creeds are private.

[jolene]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

Creeds and rituals of an NPC group are usually strong traditions, while constitutions and laws of an NPC group are variables that can be changed by vote.

Would properly voting to allow *all* to join one individual NPC group violate the spirit of any ritual or creed of same group? Only the members of that group can truly decide, since rituals and some creeds are private.

We live in an extremely litigious society. I'm waiting for Jane Smith to sue Panhellenic because she didn't get invited back to her top choice.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by naraht

Serious question, what would be the consequences (other than an *X-ton* of screaming) to one of the members of the NPC allowing *all* students to join. (Yes, even the young man who has never thought of himself as anything other than male his entire life). Assume this actually passes at a full National Convention. Would the NPC automatically remove them from membership? I don't think the Federal or State governments would care. The most effect from a Legal Standpoint *might* be to screw up some of the bequests (sort of like what happened to BSA when they went fully co-ed).

As long as this was found to be something that falls within the unanimous agreements, they couldn’t really kick them out. The only membership requirements that are in the MOI under the UA are that the person must be matriculated at the school where the chapter is and that they can’t be enrolled in HS and college simultaneously.

That being said, any sorority that would go coed and/or remove selective membership and stay a member would be stupid, because it does cost money to be a member.

[Sen's Revenge]

Originally Posted by honeychile

One of the other strange parts is that you don't ever hear about women joining a fraternity. I think we all know how that would end.

I do not understand this comment. Could you elaborate?

[TLLK]

Artemis Langford is interviewed by MSNBC.


https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09...nal-interview/

The first transgender member of a Wyoming-based sorority appeared on the national network MSNBC this week to voice relief for a victory in a major lawsuit, and to report some instances of harassment stemming from it.
Artemis Langford, originally of Lander, Wyoming, spoke with MSNBC’s Yasmin Vossoughian in the wake of a federal judge ruling against voiding Langford’s membership in the University of Wyoming-based chapter of the Kappa Kappa Gamma sorority, and against subjecting the sorority to a civil lawsuit.
U.S. District Court Judge Alan B. Johnson said Aug. 25 that he would not invade the sorority’s right to make and interpret its own rules, including defining the word “woman.”
“Schools continue to be a frontline in these fights for LGBTQ+ rights,” said Vossoughian during the interview, which MSNBC published Sunday. “Artemis Langford, the very brave woman at the center of it all, is joining me now.”
Langford thanked Vossoughian for the opportunity to give an interview.

[lake]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

You are right, holding the threat of membership termination over the heads of those who dissent is particularly ugly.

Ugly is as ugly does.

I can't help but think: 50 or so years ago when they first pledged, would these women have believed that decades later they would lose their membership for following their convictions and stating the obvious: that men don't belong in women's organizations? Back then, would they have been able to wrap their heads around the idea that in the future, up would be down and down would be up? That right would be called wrong and wrong would be celebrated? That in this country there would be all this militancy and forced speech to discourage people from saying that the emperor is not wearing any clothing?

I hope these women continue their work to advocate for their beliefs regardless of their membership status. This is not a good look for Kappa.

[Pinkmagnolia921]

They've just kicked out two alumnae. How sad!
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/11...ender-lawsuit/

[33girl]

Another article

https://archive.ph/yaOLv

It’s important to point out that one of these two women was a past President of the national foundation. I don’t know all of KKG’s hierarchy but I would wager that is some serious cheese.

I also as an old GCer who vividly remembers the alumnae initiation debates on here and remembers that Kappa was one who pretty much never ever did it - am intrigued by the fact that they finally changed their bylaws in 2018 and are now “all in.”

In the words of Pokey from The Group, who’d a thunk it.

[carnation]

I am so glad to hear that multiple lawsuits are being planned by these alums and whose who were kicked out of Phi Mu. These nationals deserve it.

[33girl]

What happened with Phi Mu!?

[carnation]

They booted several longtime and loyal members because they "had the nerve" for expressing their views, which were against that of the current so-called leadership.