Should we change the way PNMs think of Recruitment?

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Mathematically, the PRUSH (PNM's make their selections immediately after their parties) makes more sense than SORUSH (PNM's get a list of invites and choose which to accept). In PRUSH with RFM, both the PNM's and the chapters have flexlists, so the right number of women end up at each chapter during each round. If a campus used RFM and SORUSH, they could end up with too few women, and couldn't go back and add via the flexlist.

Are there any RFM schools who DO use SORUSH? I think most schools switched to PRUSH when they started implementing RFM.

[28StGreek]

Thank you everyone for the good discussion. Especially to learn about how recruitment used to be structured

Originally Posted by 33girl

Absolutely. This is the same ridiculousness that keeps college Panhellenics from being able to say "you don't have a snowball's chance in hell if you don't have recs/know people from Foofoo High/go to Roundup etc." Which is stupid, because the TRULY politically correct thing to do would be to make sure EVERYONE is informed of this, not just the "old girl network" who knows you have to have recs/Foofoo/Roundup etc - and who therefore keeps tight rein on the membership of the groups.

And if this means that chapters at less competitive schools get recs that they really don't need, well, that's not that big of a deal. Seriously.

Is it really 'mean' and 'politically incorrect' to remind the PNMs that while their preferences are taken into account, not to forget that their preferences only are considered AFTER the Chapters have have made their selections of who to invite back to the next day?

[carnation]

There are many of us who desperately wish that NPC would tell the schools to be upfront about that. Every year, we watch these girls go off to the SEC schools saying that they're only "rushing for" certain groups and then the debacle begins after second parties.

[southbymidwest]

Originally Posted by carnation

There are many of us who desperately wish that NPC would tell the schools to be upfront about that. Every year, we watch these girls go off to the SEC schools saying that they're only "rushing for" certain groups and then the debacle begins after second parties.

And then you get the girls going through non SEC schools who have heard that recruitment is not as competitive as SEC schools and are flabbergasted when they are dropped by their favorites- hello, you are, in reality, competing against the rest of the PNM pool for a few spots that most girls going through also want.

[carnation]

Yes!! That too!!

[28StGreek]

Originally Posted by carnation

There are many of us who desperately wish that NPC would tell the schools to be upfront about that. Every year, we watch these girls go off to the SEC schools saying that they're only "rushing for" certain groups and then the debacle begins after second parties.

My personal recruitment experience benefited from having 2 older siblings and 1 older cousin having gone through recruitment at the same school previously. So I definitely knew the reality of the process. After the PC rose tinted glasses have been taken off.

I just can't help but wonder with all the resources/scary stories on the internet now, that some girls going to the really competitive SEC, Big12 (+ SMU) schools not to mention FSU, Arizona, Southern Cal (and maybe even Cornell) that they don't have a realistic expectation. I guess every girl wants to believe they are the best and will be everyone's rush crush, but thats just a recipe for disappointment for the vast majority of PNMs

[KSUViolet06]

We've talked about this in other threads, but PNMs fail to realize (particularly at competitive schools) that while they may very well be awesome, so is everyone else.

I think it's funny when a PNM comes here and is all "I have a 4.0." Great, you're rushing at USC though, so you won't be the only one.

Or saying "well I'm a legacy" when rushing at Bama/Ole Miss/etc. So are lots of other girls and you'll need more than that to get past first round.

[MaryPoppins]

^^^^ And the PNMs at supercompetitive schools. who drop out after second round, when their top three houses had to cut them, thinking they'll make it next year as Sophomores.

[KSUViolet06]

^^^^Not realizing that the three that she loves aren't likely the ones who take sophomores.

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

^^^^Not realizing that the three that she loves aren't likely the ones who take sophomores.

nor are they the ones who COB once recruitment is over.

[AXOmom]

I have never felt like it was my place (not having ever been through a recruitment) to bring this topic up - but I'm glad that you did 28stgreek because I had resolved that if it ever did come up - I wanted to share daughter's experience with this subject since she saw the honest approach and the "rainbows and ponies" approach used in her two recruitments and she knows which one worked better in the long run. Warning: this is long and windy.

As I mentioned in her recruitment story, daughter was a sophomore with grade issues (not to mention a few other issues) when she went into recruitment at her first school. She had spent enough time reading on GC to know she might have a problem on her hands.

After reading on here at least 1,747, 657 times that your best bet if you had specific questions about recruitment at your school was to call your Greek life office and ask, she did just that. The person in charge of Greek life at WSU in 2008 (want this to be mentioned because whoever she was - kudos to her) was polite but honest in telling her that she was facing an uphill battle, the odds were not in her favor, she would probably face stiff cuts and if that was going to devastate her she might want to get her grades up first and go through next year or think about informal although she couldn't say if that would be happening. In other words - the sororities make the decisions and as it stands they have better options than you (her wording was much nicer, of course).

At the time, daughter thought the woman was one of many big meanie witches who was conspiring to keep her out of a sorority. Two weeks later, after she had dropped out of recruitment, she had a different opinion. Getting cut by chpaters she loved and where she had friends, hurt, but having someone honestly prepare her for what could happen and why helped her accept it and move on fairly quickly. Now, she is grateful to that woman. Her honesty was a kindness - it saved daughter a world of hurt.

Fast forward to the next recruitment (current school). Daughter understood it was up to sororities -not her. Roomate, who was also going through recruitment, was a bright eyed freshman who had drunk the "recruitment isn't very competitive here and everyone finds a chapter they love" kool-aide. She couldn't understand why daughter was stressed - after all - they were guaranteed bids (as she understood it) and at orientation they told them it was mutual selection and you'd find a home you loved. What could possibly go wrong?

Next day, roommate was upset to find out the chapter she absolutely loved had cut her. The next day, same thing. Then, she got her second choice on bid day (she liked the chapter - it just wasn't her first choice).

It took her a while to get past it and I think a lot of that had to do with drinking that kool-aide. She loves her chapter now - couldn't be happier, and I'm fairly certain she is one who now couldn't see herself anywhere else, but I believe if Greek life had been a little blunter in explaining things at that orientation - she would have been happier quicker.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Are there any RFM schools who DO use SORUSH? I think most schools switched to PRUSH when they started implementing RFM.

Oh, I don't know of any, I was saying that SORUSH wouldn't work with RFM. I went through with SORUSH, and we got the wrong lists one round. Whoops.

[28StGreek]

Well thank y'all for the discussion!

Just a thought are the opinions of "Blunt, Rational, Transparent recruitment" vs "inclusive, every PNM has an equal chance recruitment" philosophies vary depending on whether a campus' Panhellenic recruitment is considered competitive?

Does the Panhellenic community at very competitive schools feel that PNMs should know how competitive it is and that they really are being chosen from a very similar field with many PNMs having stellar resumes?

This might go in the same box as "All PNMs need recs to every house or they will be cut, but Panhellenic can't explicitly state this"?

Or is this feeling present throughout Panhellenics across the majority of campuses big or small; and its just the PC police that makes the situation misrepresented to the PNMs?

Am I making sense?

[DubaiSis]

It's competitive if you're the one getting cut. If the school uses RFM, then it's competitive. Period. We've discussed here quite a bit that competitive generally means that you will likely find A home (presuming you have all the required credentials for your campus) but you may not find THE home.

And it IS a mutual selection process if you go all the way through rush as the superstar rushee who doesn't get cut by any chapters. Then the rushee gets to participate in the deciding. It does happen, even at the mega schools, just not very often, like I'd bet it goes that way for a handful of girls per school per year. Out of 1000+. If a girl can do SOME deciding, then that's great, but she shouldn't expect (although they do every year!) to get her top list for every round without having to go to any ranked chapters through the process.

KUDOS to the Greek adviser AXOMom mentioned. More of that and less of unicorns pooping rainbows would be extremely helpful to a lot of girls.

[AOII Angel]

I think people are misunderstanding the process. The "chapters" don't get to make the decisions first. The lists of chapters and PNMs are matched together every day. Top performing chapters and top performing PNMs get what they want first which leaves both weaker performing chapters and PNMs to take what is left over on their lists that makes them think it's not mutual selection. The "chapters" as a group aren't getting any choices before the PNMs. The lists must be matched. If chapter XYZ wants the top PNMs and they don't list XYZ, there is nothing they can do about it. PNMs want to whine when they get XYZ on their list, but XYZ also whines when they get PNMs they don't want every single day. It works both ways. In the end, this is the point of RFM...to make these women think about what is in front of them instead of what they can't have (from the PNM side and the chapter side.)