What would you do if your son...

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by KAPPAtivating

I know have a couple that want to pledge other orgs., and I can respect their choice to do so, but there are two orgs. that I will automatically be like...

LMAO!

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

AKA_Monet thanks for posting this. This is exactly what I'm talking about, and the reason why I wouldn't want my sons or daughters pledging or getting involved in any of the white glos. They were founded on racist beliefs and they are still racist.

btw: You jokers outside of the NPHC can comment on my post here if you want to, but my opinions about your glos are going to remain unchanged.

That's funny.... wasn't your fraternity the first of the NPHC to also join the NIC?

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

That's funny.... wasn't your fraternity the first of the NPHC to also join the NIC?

doesn't seem like an apples to apples comparison to me.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

doesn't seem like an apples to apples comparison to me.

Kappa being part of the umbrella organization established for fraternities founded on "racist beliefs" is ironic to me.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

AKA_Monet thanks for posting this. This is exactly what I'm talking about, and the reason why I wouldn't want my sons or daughters pledging or getting involved in any of the white glos. They were founded on racist beliefs and they are still racist.

btw: You jokers outside of the NPHC can comment on my post here if you want to, but my opinions about your glos are going to remain unchanged.

By your logic, you shouldn't wish to be a part of this country as it was found more on racist ideals than any fraternity. I don't know any fraternity with racist ideals. Racist past, yes, racist members, yes, but that is because of the society we live in.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

By your logic, you shouldn't wish to be a part of this country as it was found more on racist ideals than any fraternity. I don't know any fraternity with racist ideals. Racist past, yes, racist members, yes, but that is because of the society we live in.

Based on my logic I shouldn't wish to be a part of this country? Are you nuts!? Dude, I'm very proud to be a part of this country, because African Americans took a large part in building it to what it is now. On top of that, this all came with FREE labor too. You could have kept that comment.

Racist past? Huh? Girl, this stuff is still going on today. Rather it's the society we live in or not, judging anyone based on skin color alone is wrong and there's no excuse for that. It's just flat out wrong.
Also, there are still chapters within the NPC and IFC that to this very day have not initiated a black student. So it's still very much present. Again, I wouldn't be able to stop my children from joining outside of the NPHC umbrella group, but if they did, I would be very concerned for their safety and well being. I'm glad African American fraternities and sororities were founded, because if they weren't, then I wouldn't be greek at all, because I wouldn't be a part of an organization that was founded on racist beliefs. We helped in the process of building this country, so I'm proud to be a part of that. We didn't build your glos, we were and still are at some colleges across the country rejected from them for being black.


I think the best thing is for you and I to just agree to disagree.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Kappa being part of the umbrella organization established for fraternities founded on "racist beliefs" is ironic to me.

It was the vision of these astute men that enabled them in the school year 1910 - 11, more specifically the night of January 5, 1911, on the campus of Indiana University at Bloomington, Indiana, to sow the seed of a fraternal tree whose fruit is available to, and now enjoyed by, college men everywhere, regardless of their color, religion or national origin. It is a fact of which KAPPA ALPHA PSI is justly proud that the Constitution has never contained any clause which either excluded or suggested the exclusion of a man from membership merely because of his color, creed, or national origin. The Constitution of KAPPA ALPHA PSI is predicated upon, and dedicated to, the principles of achievement through a truly democratic Fraternity.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

It was the vision of these astute men that enabled them in the school year 1910 - 11, more specifically the night of January 5, 1911, on the campus of Indiana University at Bloomington, Indiana, to sow the seed of a fraternal tree whose fruit is available to, and now enjoyed by, college men everywhere, regardless of their color, religion or national origin. It is a fact of which KAPPA ALPHA PSI is justly proud that the Constitution has never contained any clause which either excluded or suggested the exclusion of a man from membership merely because of his color, creed, or national origin. The Constitution of KAPPA ALPHA PSI is predicated upon, and dedicated to, the principles of achievement through a truly democratic Fraternity.

Copying and pasting information from your fraternity's website is meaningless to me, even moreso when you put it in bold. In that vein, I reformatted it to match its value to me.

Now, if you would READ what I said.... YOUR fraternity was first among black fraternities to join the so-called "racist" fraternities' umbrella organization. Why is that?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

Based on my logic I shouldn't wish to be a part of this country? Are you nuts!? Dude, I'm very proud to be a part of this country, because African Americans took a large part in building it to what it is now. On top of that, this all came with FREE labor too. You could have kept that comment.

Racist past? Huh? Girl, this stuff is still going on today. Rather it's the society we live in or not, judging anyone based on skin color alone is wrong and there's no excuse for that. It's just flat out wrong.
Also, there are still chapters within the NPC and IFC that to this very day have not initiated a black student. So it's still very much present. Again, I wouldn't be able to stop my children from joining outside of the NPHC umbrella group, but if they did, I would be very concerned for their safety and well being. I'm glad African American fraternities and sororities were founded, because if they weren't, then I wouldn't be greek at all, because I wouldn't be a part of an organization that was founded on racist beliefs. We helped in the process of building this country, so I'm proud to be a part of that. We didn't build your glos, we were and still are at some colleges across the country rejected from them for being black.


I think the best thing is for you and I to just agree to disagree.

You wouldn't want your children to be part of an organization you believe was "founded on racist ideals" but you're ok being part of a country that was founded on more racist ideals than any fraternity every could be?

Just as this country was founded with a "white male only" idea of freedom, many of our GLOs were founded with a "white male" then "white female" only idea of brotherhood or sisterhood. Our founders probably did not even consider the fact that a black person would be in college, much less interested in membership. They were products of their times.

Yes, there are members who are still racist. You ignored that part of my comment in your effort to emphasize how it's not all in the past. There are also campuses where not a single black person goes through recruitment (for men or women) because of a percieved bias that isn't necessarily there. Are there chapters of Kappa Alpha Psi that have never initiated a non-black person? A white person? Do you have members who would never accept a white person for membership?

Our society has these divisions in them and Greek life is a cross section of people. You cannot expect every Greek to be this perfect unbiased person.

That said, my sisters were of all colors. They were all supported, they were all loved. There was no distinction made either in their selection or in their membership. Things aren't all the same everywhere.

ETA I don't think I'm ever going to be ok with your mischaracterization of "white" GLOs. So no, I can't in good conscience "agree to disagree." I only hope your children would be able to follow their own heart and not their fathers.

[PrettyBoy]

Drolefille and Senusret 1 I just typed a whole book in response to your posts and it didn't post. Starting all over.

Well, anyway, Drollefile and Senusret I don't want you two to get offended my my opinions. I think you two are two of the more intelligent members on this website, based on some of your previous postings on past topics. I can't say I agree with them all but I still have the highest respect for the both of you based on your postings.

o.k. Senusret 1, my copying, pasting, and bolding from our fraternity's website was not to offend you or belittle your post. I have no clue why we joined up with NIC, but I think it's a great step in the right direction for more integration, which is why I bolded what we were founded upon. wglos and blgos are still largely segregated, and making a decision to join another umbrella group outside of the NPHC is a good thing. The fact that we have joined the NIC still shows we're following the principles of Kappa Alpha Psi. You stated that what I posted is meaningless to you, I can't change your opinion on that, but what I can say is all glos under the NPHC umbrella group and what they stand for are very meaningful to me.

Drollefile, like I said before, I'm very proud to be a part of this country, because we helped in the process of building it. We did not build your glos so therefore they mean very little to me. Your're right, there are probably some glos under the NPHC umbrella group that deny membership to whites, but I think the reason behind that is not only because we were and still are denied membership in your glos, but because of the way we were violently treated in the past and in some cases we still are. Though I don't agree with it, but I understand the reason behind it. Your oganizations had no other reason to deny membership to us other than the fact of being black. So in turn we started our own fraternities and sorortities. Kappa Alpha Psi was founded not to exlude anyone who wasn't black. Anyone about achievement creates a green light for membership. I can't say the same for Sigma Kappa. As you stated, Sigma Kappa may have some non-white members, but your founders would have denied membership to a black woman in a heartbeat, for one simple reason. She's black. I'm sure they would have called her something else, if you know what I mean. I'm not sure when your sorority was founded, but I'm sure it was founded when a lot of African Americans weren't enrolled in college, but as the numbers increased I know good and well your sorority would have denied a black woman membership. You stated that blacks generally don't have much intersest in joining your glos, and personally I don't think they should have any interest in joining. Why join an organization whos founders denied membership to people who were non-white? How can someone tell another human being you can't be apart of this because you're not white? That is so stupid to me and it's pointless. Sorry Drolefille but it's very difficult for me to have respect your organizations. Nothing against you as a person, but I hate the fact that your sorority and the other 25 sororities under your umbrella group denied membership to non-whites and in some cases still do. The same to traditionally white fraternities.

What really gets me is now NPC sororites are now stepping like us. If they want to step, that's fine, but I hope they don't try and call it there own one day.

Though I enjoyed chatting with you two, we can debate until we're blue in the face, but I still don't agree with you.

Also Senusret, check your PM. I'm sending you something from youtube, look at all of it and tell me what you think.

Sorry for the book.

[ladygreek]

Still trying to figure out why Senusret and Drolefille are jumping down PB's throat for HIS opinion, which he has stated in HIS org's forum and which I can understand.

And I still don't understand why Kappa becoming a member of the NIC is ironic. Maybe it's a matter of working from within to change the org. Not to mention that our orgs generally are ruled by majority vote which could mean that 49 percent of the members could have different personal views from the actions of the org.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Still trying to figure out why Senusret and Drolefille are jumping down PB's throat for HIS opinion, which he has stated in HIS org's forum and which I can understand.

And I still don't understand why Kappa becoming a member of the NIC is ironic. Maybe it's a matter of working from within to change the org. Not to mention that our orgs generally are ruled by majority vote which could mean that 49 percent of the members could have different personal views from the actions of the org.

ladygreek, I'm with you, and I'm trying to have more of an open mind, but it's very difficult to, knowing the racial issues behind their glos. I went to a black college, so I had no exposure to NPC or IFC glos, so I knew nothing about them. I still don't know much about them, and I really don't care to know. I have two friends in NPC glos and one friend in an IFC glo, and I only know what they told me. I have nothing against them as individuals but everytime they try to have a conversation with me about their glos, it goes in one ear and out the other. It's like hearing a foreign language. I've gotten into the same debates with them on this same topic. At one time I didn't even consider their glos to be real. I kind of still don't. I hope if I'm fortunate enough to have children, I hope they don't even consider joining outside the NPHC.

[bluethunder]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing that my son is a member of an organization who's founders judged men by the color of their skin rather than by the content of their character. On another note, there are still some chapters that still segregate to this very day. I wouldn't want my son to be apart of that.

While I understand your stance (really, I believe I get where you are coming from), weren't there NPHC orgs that have been historically NOTORIOUS for doing the very same thing-- judging potential members by the color of their skin as opposed to the full content of their characters? Perhaps "colorism" wasn't necessarily built into any of our founder's requisites for membership into any of our organizations, skin color hasn't been an issue solely affecting groups outside of the NPHC... and there are TONS more chapters in the NPHC who "segregate" amongs US (meaning people of color), too...
just a thought.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by bluethunder

While I understand your stance (really, I believe I get where you are coming from), weren't there NPHC orgs that have been historically NOTORIOUS for doing the very same thing-- judging potential members by the color of their skin as opposed to the full content of their characters? Perhaps "colorism" wasn't necessarily built into any of our founder's requisites for membership into any of our organizations, skin color hasn't been an issue solely affecting groups outside of the NPHC... and there are TONS more chapters in the NPHC who "segregate" amongs US (meaning people of color), too...
just a thought.

Read the letter form Willie Lynch and you'll see where this came from.

[Senusret I]

The Willie Lynch letter isn't real. http://blackeducator.blogspot.com/20...ch-speech.html