God and Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc.

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by _Opi_
Are all the divine nine orgs based on christian principles?

if so, then would you [tell] interested members who are not of the Christian religion that information upfront?

(currently not an interest of any of the divine 9...but just curious)

Delta was founded on Christian porinciples, but it is not a Christian-based organization. There is a difference. We have many members who are not Christian.

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by Iconoclastic
That is the same excuse people use when they don't want to accept Jesus no matter how He is presented. I'm not ready. Many in this audience you say I lose are only the ones you know. You don't know who calls me and how many silent, unposted visitors come here and make decisions about my demeanor whether it be positive or negative. One thing I noticed about many websites is that about 5-10% of the poeple who visit actually post. You can only attack me, but not the wisdom of God. I do not know how many times God spoke through a person about GLO's to me. The bottom line is that it was still Him. So if you insist on a direct voice, it may or may not ever happen in every situation. His Word is His voice.

The same goes for you! You'd be surprised how many people I reach, how many people PM me...so whats your point? If you think there is only one way to reach members of BGLO's, again thats your opinion, but if your work is really about the kingdom, you'd be more concerned with that..then touting your own agenda.

[Rain Man]

Here is my take on the topic at hand:

First of all, my biggest issue with such orgs claiming that they were founded on Christian principles is that they never tell you which principles they specifically were founded upon, nor do they have a scriptural basis for such principles. Say what you will on this, but I think the whole "we were founded on Christian principles" is nothing more than an PR smokescreen; sounds good on paper, but nothing of substance to support it.

LoveSpell, girl where you been. I missed ya' *hugs*. Good to see you back on GC fighting for Jesus as always. Good points you brought up. As you indicated earlier, I trust indeed that when the Holy Spirit moves you to denounce Delta, you will humbly obey. Keep your head up, and handle your (and His) business.

Iconoclastic, long time no see.

I truly support what you are trying to do, and I agree with it on many levels. However, your problem as LoveSpell indicated, is that your mininstry tends to condemn individuals more than it does convict (and it shows in your book you wrote). I applaud and appreciate your zeal to deliver people from GLOs, however your delivery in your ministry really needs some work. I am not saying to dilute your message(s), but rather I am saying to let His Word and Spirit and your testimony be your driving force to deliver people, rather than letting the end result (hell and damnation) if they don't repent. Now I know that is not what you are trying to convey to GCers, but that is how people are taking it.

Just ease up a little is all I am saying.

Again, great discussion! Keep it comin', yall.

[The Cushite]

Hello All, it's me again, Blackwatch. I have been very busy lately with a new job and new ministry responsibilies at my church, so forgive my lack of posts, but trust that my love is for My Fraternity and the beautiful brothers and sisters of the GC fam.

I have been reading this thread with particular interest, seeing as though I am A Christian and a brother of Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity, Inc. This question of whether or not one can truly be "saved" and in a fraternity is I think on some level loaded because you have to first define terms. Different people have different definitions for "saved". Some people think that saved simply means that you are in a loving relationship with God, other cite Rom. 10:9-10 and say that some type of public confession has to take place, others say that baptism has to happen, then yet others will cite passages in Acts to say that you must be baptised in the Holy spirit, as evidenced by speaking in Tongues. Others may have more definitions, but these are the most common ones.

Then there is the question of the nature of your relationship in being a brother/sister of a BGLO (before we go on, I would like to state emphatically that Alpha Phi Alpha is not a greek letter org. -peep Stolen Legacy by George James- but for the sake of argument I am including my dear fraternity among those classified as BGLO's). Do you view the BGLO as a spiritual/ worshipful entity in as much as you have devoted you mind heart and soul to a diety it has set up? Does the BGLO replace or at least answer some fundamental questions about life, life's purpose, and creaton in general? In other words, has your BGLO become your religion? Does your BGLO conflict with your understanding of righteousness? Does it (as an organization) officially sanction some activity or moral code that is totally contrary to your understanding of righteousness, love, and faith? Does it denounce the God of "our weary tears" and the "God of our silent tears" that has brought "us thus far on the Way"? ( My ode to Black History Month :-) ) If so , than denounce (I would wonder why one would join in the first place). But, the last time I checked, none of the Divine 9 orgs. ever told anyone to do anything that would deny the God that they believe in, nor to do something immoral or against SOUND DOCTRINAL teachings of the scriptures (if anyone wants to take me to task about swearing oaths and Mat. 5:33-37 please PM me). Now, individuals in the orgs have done some wild things, but so have individuals within the church, so does that mean we shouldn't associate with the church?

Iconoclast, I tend to agree with the poster that noted that your method of "wining souls" for Christ probably "needs some work". You cannot force morality on people, nor can you scare someone to love God. I think that people who try to "win souls" this way are theologically and ministerilly lazy. One should try to convince the person you are trying to reach by simply posing an argument that is so ironclad that they arrive at the only reasonably sound position, yours. Your arguments so far are falling on def ears because they are not sound, both theologically and apologetically. For example, you are saying that by simply being in a BGLO, a person cannot truly be Christian. This doesn't make since because you are saying that there is something that can seperate a willing person from the Grace of God (Check Rom 8 :35-38 for a rebuff of that notion). You also assert that since someone holds a different opinion on a subject (Your reference to Bishop Vashti McKenzie), they are not of the kingdom as well. Is there any room for any opinion other than yours in the Kingdom? Who's Kingdom is it anyway?
Your scripture references are poorly extricated. You quote Eph. 5:11 about exposing darkness with the truth, yet let's look at this passage in context. Paul is writing to the people of Ephesus, a town in present day Turkey that was a trade route and a gateway to the eastern half of the Roman empire. This caused Ephesus to really be inundated with many ideas about life, God, and religion. One of those ideas concerning religion was sex as idol worship in temples devoted to other "gods". In the midst of this, Paul admonishes the Ephesian church to not live like everyone else, who worship god through their flesh, not the spirit. The "fruitless deeds of darkness"(5:11) concern doing the things that those who do not know the truth would do, cautioning believers to live as if they know better (so to speak). Now, does this have anything to do with BGLO's? Are BGLO's religious orgs? Are they advocating temple sex? Other forms of hedonism? I think not. We as believers, if we are sincerely devoted to spiritual growth and ministry, must be more devoted to responsible biblical teaching and application. We must be careful to not take scriptures out of context. The proper application of a text like this would prbably sound more like this: , "you know better, so live your life like you know better, don't believe in God the way those do that do not know the truth. Be more of an advocate for understanding what you believe and live in that understanding."

Does this scripture require those Christians in BGLO's to denounce simply because of the "Teachings" of the BGLO's? Honestly, I didn't know the Divine 9 had teachings and sages and an official philosophy on God (Doctrines, worship rituals, laity, etc.). Now, does this stop individuals from being influened by the principles that the orgs. expouse? Not at all, but , last time I checked, none of the orgs have posited themselves as religions, destined to do the work of "Satan". Any view of these orgs that surmises this conclusion is purly THE OPINION of the person holding it. So if someone else disagrees, you have to convince them (not condemn them because your arguement doesn't hold up) of the TRUTH of your stance, if there is any truth in it.
Just my 06 cents worth,
Blackwatch!!!!!!

[SummerChild]

Cush, I like your new name. It means Black right? As in the Land of Cush was called that b/c the people there were Black right?

SC

Originally posted by The Cushite
Hello All, it's me again, Blackwatch. I have been very busy lately with a new job and new ministry responsibilies at my church, so forgive my lack of posts, but trust that my love is for My Fraternity and the beautiful brothers and sisters of the GC fam.

I have been reading this thread with particular interest, seeing as though I am A Christian and a brother of Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity, Inc. This question of whether or not one can truly be "saved" and in a fraternity is I think on some level loaded because you have to first define terms. Different people have different definitions for "saved". Some people think that saved simply means that you are in a loving relationship with God, other cite Rom. 10:9-10 and say that some type of public confession has to take place, others say that baptism has to happen, then yet others will cite passages in Acts to say that you must be baptised in the Holy spirit, as evidenced by speaking in Tongues. Others may have more definitions, but these are the most common ones.

Then there is the question of the nature of your relationship in being a brother/sister of a BGLO (before we go on, I would like to state emphatically that Alpha Phi Alpha is not a greek letter org. -peep Stolen Legacy by George James- but for the sake of argument I am including my dear fraternity among those classified as BGLO's). Do you view the BGLO as a spiritual/ worshipful entity in as much as you have devoted you mind heart and soul to a diety it has set up? Does the BGLO replace or at least answer some fundamental questions about life, life's purpose, and creaton in general? In other words, has your BGLO become your religion? Does your BGLO conflict with your understanding of righteousness? Does it (as an organization) officially sanction some activity or moral code that is totally contrary to your understanding of righteousness, love, and faith? Does it denounce the God of "our weary tears" and the "God of our silent tears" that has brought "us thus far on the Way"? ( My ode to Black History Month :-) ) If so , than denounce (I would wonder why one would join in the first place). But, the last time I checked, none of the Divine 9 orgs. ever told anyone to do anything that would deny the God that they believe in, nor to do something immoral or against SOUND DOCTRINAL teachings of the scriptures (if anyone wants to take me to task about swearing oaths and Mat. 5:33-37 please PM me). Now, individuals in the orgs have done some wild things, but so have individuals within the church, so does that mean we shouldn't associate with the church?

Iconoclast, I tend to agree with the poster that noted that your method of "wining souls" for Christ probably "needs some work". You cannot force morality on people, nor can you scare someone to love God. I think that people who try to "win souls" this way are theologically and ministerilly lazy. One should try to convince the person you are trying to reach by simply posing an argument that is so ironclad that they arrive at the only reasonably sound position, yours. Your arguments so far are falling on def ears because they are not sound, both theologically and apologetically. For example, you are saying that by simply being in a BGLO, a person cannot truly be Christian. This doesn't make since because you are saying that there is something that can seperate a willing person from the Grace of God (Check Rom 8 :35-38 for a rebuff of that notion). You also assert that since someone holds a different opinion on a subject (Your reference to Bishop Vashti McKenzie), they are not of the kingdom as well. Is there any room for any opinion other than yours in the Kingdom? Who's Kingdom is it anyway?
Your scripture references are poorly extricated. You quote Eph. 5:11 about exposing darkness with the truth, yet let's look at this passage in context. Paul is writing to the people of Ephesus, a town in present day Turkey that was a trade route and a gateway to the eastern half of the Roman empire. This caused Ephesus to really be inundated with many ideas about life, God, and religion. One of those ideas concerning religion was sex as idol worship in temples devoted to other "gods". In the midst of this, Paul admonishes the Ephesian church to not live like everyone else, who worship god through their flesh, not the spirit. The "fruitless deeds of darkness"(5:11) concern doing the things that those who do not know the truth would do, cautioning believers to live as if they know better (so to speak). Now, does this have anything to do with BGLO's? Are BGLO's religious orgs? Are they advocating temple sex? Other forms of hedonism? I think not. We as believers, if we are sincerely devoted to spiritual growth and ministry, must be more devoted to responsible biblical teaching and application. We must be careful to not take scriptures out of context. The proper application of a text like this would prbably sound more like this: , "you know better, so live your life like you know better, don't believe in God the way those do that do not know the truth. Be more of an advocate for understanding what you believe and live in that understanding."

Does this scripture require those Christians in BGLO's to denounce simply because of the "Teachings" of the BGLO's? Honestly, I didn't know the Divine 9 had teachings and sages and an official philosophy on God (Doctrines, worship rituals, laity, etc.). Now, does this stop individuals from being influened by the principles that the orgs. expouse? Not at all, but , last time I checked, none of the orgs have posited themselves as religions, destined to do the work of "Satan". Any view of these orgs that surmises this conclusion is purly THE OPINION of the person holding it. So if someone else disagrees, you have to convince them (not condemn them because your arguement doesn't hold up) of the TRUTH of your stance, if there is any truth in it.
Just my 06 cents worth,
Blackwatch!!!!!!

[Dex1906]

This is my 1st post, I was reading the seriousness of this topic and I figured I had this joke that would lighten up the mood in this room. I hope you all enjoy it.

One day a SIGMA arrived in heaven and God greeted him at the gate and
welcomed him into his new home. God led him to a blue track home with a
white roof that was surrounded by pretty flowers. The SIGMA knew he was
in heaven and was so pleased.

The next day a KAPPA arrived in heaven and God greeted him at the gate
to take him to his new home. God brought him to a cute Creme ranch style
home with a Crimson roof that had sugar canes all around and even stained
glass pictures of kanes on the windows. The KAPPA loved it and thanked
God and went in to enjoy his new home.

The next day an OMEGA arrived in heaven and God greeted him and took him
to his purple mansion with a gold roof. There were beautiful and
elaborate pit bulls and great Danes everywhere in the neighboring fields
and the OMEGA loved it!

Then all of a sudden the ALPHA looked up the mountain and saw sitting
on its peak the most beautiful palace he had ever seen! This BLACK
palace had an OLD GOLD roof and roaming all about were elegant and
distinctive men with with much class. In the driveway were BLACK
Mercedes and there were BMW's with OLD GOLD leather interior. A pair of
BLACK and OLD GOLD Bentley's were parked in the garage that had ALPHA PHI ALPHA
on the tags and elaborately written across the front of the
palace were the words ALPHA PHI ALPHA. The OMEGA got all rude and
started yelling, "WHY DO THE ALPHA'S" have that huge palace!! That's
not fair.



God turned to him and said, "Brother Man, that's MY house, I am ALPHA"!!!!

[AKA2D '91]

Welcome to GC!

At first, I thought you were your frat brother Dexter. He's straight MIA!

[CrimsonTide4]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
Welcome to GC!

At first, I thought you were your frat brother Dexter. He's straight MIA!

That's what I thought as well.

[pearls]

I agree very much with Love Spell about God asking you about the number of souls that you led into His kingdom. I'm glad of that reminder myself.
We are to do things which glorify Him and not necessarily a GLO. and as you know, we are to love Him because it's not about the "works". All good things come from Him and we are to acknowledge that. It seems that if all credit is given to GLO's then people may not see Christ and give Him credit. We were made in His image, so all of the great things that we do represent His handiwork, but we have to verbally say it because people will think we/ they are doing everything on their own and we/they don't need Him. Some people feel that there is alot of self-glorification and pride going on within many community service groups. How does God feel about excessive pride?
This topic is very interesting and very controversial. I know that the Bible states that you should seek Godly counsel. That is what I think that you should do. If you know a minister or pastor who can refer you to more scriptures (because you should read it for yourself) then that will help.
Also, you can pray, fast, study the Bible, and ask for guidance.
Other people that I think would be good to talk to would be people that are very knowledgeable about the Bible, and have other sources of information. They may be in some of these groups: Seventh Day Adventists, members of (something like this) the Hebrew Israelites, Black Muslims, and Christians. I mentioned the Adventists and the (something like that) Hebrew Israelites and Black Muslims because these are movements. Although I think that you should refer to the Bible, some of them seem to use some other resources, they can provide you with personal, instructional, as well as Biblical principles on these issues which might convinct you.
Family members of mine are separated on this issue. Personally, I truly felt that it would be ok for me to join AKA, and I felt that it would bring me closer to God, and I still have a ways to go. I did not understand why, but it was a conviction. Many of my sorors are church members and I attended a church service with them today, as a matter of fact, prior to a special event.
In my opinion, God must be trying to reach you.
Alot of times people say that others can see the Christ in you through your lifestyle, and the Bible refers to Christians possessing the fruit of the spirit. If you do become an Alpha, people will see who you worship by your attitude and actions, and when they inquire about it, you've got to let them know. Best wishes, and I hope you'll let me know what you hear. I'd like to know.

[pearls]

You get my vote for an excellent thread!

[YAHSHUA's son]

www.ephesians5-11.org


all former freemasons and eastern stars who are now born again believers


as a former q i know the mason connection in my ritual if you look you will find it in yours too


and i am not Min. Hatchett i was never a mason my granddad was

[BusinessApe1906]

What is an Ex Greek?

I'm not looking for a literal definition; I just have never heard of a BGLO member (even inactive ones) just dismiss the org. altogether or write to the org and officially renig their membership.

Has anyone heard of that?

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by BusinessApe1906
What is an Ex Greek?

I'm not looking for a literal definition; I just have never heard of a BGLO member (even inactive ones) just dismiss the org. altogether or write to the org and officially renig their membership.

Has anyone heard of that?

Yes. It happens, but I suspect more do it informally than formally--you know in case they change their minds later.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by ladygreek
Yes. It happens, but I suspect more do it informally than formally--you know in case they change their minds later.

Yep. Too "lazy" or too "unconcerned" to return their stuff to NHQ.

Some of them are "unlazy" and "concerned" enough to auction their stuff on EBAY and send 'nalia to Goodwill, though.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Primetime9191

Are there any ex-greeks in South Carolina interested in giving their testimony?

They would have no business being on GreekChat now would they?

But thank you for your constant concern.