D was told she would be offered a bid at Preference Night and then did not receive th

[QLB817]

Originally Posted by JLCo

I did not mean to offend by saying "substitute family". I am sure I could have worded that better or gone into more detail about what I meant. I simply meant that I did not face the loneliness that I think students deal with when they go away to school. All my family was within a 30 minute drive. I was simply trying to explain I understand that this a good reason for my daughter's and other's desire to become part of an organization that does, for many, become like a family to them.

"Your post infers that sorority members are privileged...... "I paid it all myself" "

Well yes, I do think those who had college mostly paid for by their parents and are able to afford to also pay sorority dues are privileged. As the saying goes, college is not a "right" in this country; it is a privilege.

My daughter is mostly paying for school herself through scholarships and a loan. (Plus living at home for a year or so to save money.) We helped out a little with books and other expenses until she is able to get a job. (Interview on Friday!) She's planning to pay the majority of her sorority expenses herself as well. We have a total of 6 kids/stepkids to assist with or have already assisted with putting through college, so we can't just foot the bill for everything and they know it.

Don't make assumptions that those joining sororities are able to do so because parents are paying. I knew many of my sisters were paying their own bills for school and dues and I see plenty of actives doing the same now.

I get the feeling that you have a lot of pre-conceived notions about what being greek means and maybe you are more than a bit wrong? Perhaps your experience on the outside led you to feel certain things, but I'd probably watch the attitude you give about it.

[Sciencewoman]

+1 to FSUZeta's and QLB817's posts.

I guess the moral of the story is not to count your chickens before they're hatched -- Pref isn't Bid Day and until the bid is in hand, you just can't be sure which group you'll match to. Recruitment is really exhausting/emotional/drama-filled, on both sides, and these are 18-22 year-olds on both sides, and some members say things in the heat of the moment, or without an awareness of exactly how rankings, bid lists, and the computerized matching process plays out. I don't think this is any indictment of sororities -- it's just the age group, the emotions, the nature of the process.

I hope your daughter has a great sorority experience.

[FSUZeta]

From the outside looking in, it might appear that sorority members are privileged. While I would fall into your privileged category, many of my sorority sisters paid their way. I knew of plenty of girls in other sororities that also did. I have been an advisor to several chapters where the majority of the members held down part time jobs. That dog simply doesn't hunt. It's best not to generalize.

[NYCMS]

As FSUZeta said, you have received numerous sympathetic replies. It seems to me, based on your responses, that you're unwilling to hear the input from women who are members of their respective sororities and some who've been actively involved with a college chapter as an adviser so they're even more immersed with recruitment.

Consider this: your daughter is very fortunate. There are thousands and thousands of girls who rush every year who would have loved to have been in her shoes with such wonderful choices. There are the rare cases where a girl goes bidless or is dropped completely during rush (rare indeed but it happens) and there are the girls who have only one house for pref and have no other to consider.

i would stop questioning what happened - you've gotten many answers - and encourage your daughter to make the most of Greek life.

[AZTheta]

At the core, isn't this a valuable lesson in the School of Life? As Mr. Jagger so eloquently sang, "you can't always get what you want".

That's all I have. Oh, a huge +1 to everything my Panhellenic sisters have written in response to the OP's posts.

ETA: OP, there's this that you wrote that really sticks in my craw:

"Just to clarify, it isn't so much what tier sorority she is in. I think she did well, given that she is an out of state student. Also of note, is the sorority she is joining seems to be moving up in her school's ranking & has a fabulous house (probably part of the reason they are moving up) . I think the issue is a loss of face; falsely being told that someone would be in a certain sorority. They lied to my daughter and she believed them and indirectly lied to him thru her. Again, the issue here is not that she was accepted to the other sorority (which she does like), it is being duped and lied to. It would not have been an issue if they had never lied to her and created false expectations."

You know you tipped your hand here, right? Which is it, actually? There's a lot of "top tier got away" and then there's the "been lied to" stuff. But the scales are tipping towards the top tier being what's got you upset. If it had been the reverse, and she didn't get into the middle tier, would we be hearing from you?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[JLCo]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

From the outside looking in, it might appear that sorority members are privileged. While I would fall into your privileged category, many of my sorority sisters paid their way. I knew of plenty of girls in other sororities that also did. I have been an advisor to several chapters where the majority of the members held down part time jobs. That dog simply doesn't hunt. It's best not to generalize.

You are the expert at sorority membership, so I would have to assume what you are saying is true. And, I do admit I have a tendency to over-generalize.

However, in my own defense, I will have to say I know of only two women who paid their own sorority dues. Both my mother and sister-in-law. And they had similar circumstances; both of their mothers were widowed and had limited income for extras such as these. My mother said she ended up dropping out of sorority when she was a senior because money became too tight at the end. My sister-in-law said the same thing. My SIL is rather bitter about the whole thing because she was explaining how her sorority had meeting and philanthropy requirements and that her work schedule (she had to work 25 hrs/ week) interfered with fulfilling those requirements. When she took her work schedule to someone within the sorority organization to see if they could work something out, they refused to change anything for her so she was forced to quit.

Most of the other people I know whose daughters are in sororities are from the dance studio. Dance there is very expensive and most of the parents are very high earners. I would guess that the average household income is around $600 K/ year, with I think a large percentage of parents being doctors, CEOs, CFOs, Vice-Presidents/ Presidents of Corporations, etc. I know quite a few have income in excess of $1 million/ year. So, I guess my more recent thoughts are that sorority dues are a drop in the bucket for these people. Everyone I currently know pays for their daughter's sorority dues. Hence, Yes I admit to over-generalising from my recent and long-term experiences.

Regardless, thanks to all who repled in a genuine manner and took the time to go into a more in-depth explanation of the probable causes of this situation. My first instinct was that surely the girl(s) who promised her a bid did not intend to lie to her; that they sincerely believed she would get a bid. From what has been shared here, I think that is what happened. Its just that they did not really understand the process that well + some added immaturity. Their mistake resulted in a painful experience for my daughter.

However, I am one of those do-gooder types who likes to bring about change when there are problems. I am thinking about contacting the Panhellenic Council at her school (anonymously) and explaining what happened so they can talk to the girls, better educate them for future rush classes, and to at least better minimize the chances of this happening to other girls in the future.

[Xidelt]

Please stop being a helicopter parent and don't contact the campus Panhellenic. You daughter should be able to handle this on her own.

[JLCo]

Originally Posted by NYCMS

As FSUZeta said, you have received numerous sympathetic replies. It seems to me, based on your responses, that you're unwilling to hear the input from women who are members of their respective sororities and some who've been actively involved with a college chapter as an adviser so they're even more immersed with recruitment.

Perhaps you could give me a few minutes to respond before you accuse me of taking a stance on the imput I have received here. I am one person responding and doing other things at the same time while you are many who are commenting. Just as the other poster said I should not over-generalise, you should not jump to conclusion about my thoughts on these posts before I have even had a chance to respond.

[QLB817]

Originally Posted by Xidelt

Please stop being a helicopter parent and don't contact the campus Panhellenic. You daughter should be able to handle this on her own.

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^

[Sciencewoman]

Honestly, if your daughter is happy, I would just let it go. Celebrate the fact that she's happy.

[JLCo]

It seems to me that sorority rush has many problems inherent in the process. Everyone on this board admits it. But when an outsider comments that things went wrong and criticizes some part of the process, some of the posters go into attack mode. And some offer positive critique or advice. Some just hunt for a way to discredit what you are saying (AZTheta). I really appreciate the ones who have gone out of their way to explain things (KSUViolet06, FSUZeta, QLB817, Sciencewoman, etc). It really has made me feel much better about what my daughter is getting involved in.

[JLCo]

Originally Posted by Xidelt

Please stop being a helicopter parent and don't contact the campus Panhellenic. You daughter should be able to handle this on her own.

Did you read what I said? I said I might contact them anonymously. How exactly do you think I would be able to enact any kind of change for her benefit by contacting them anonymously????????

I said it should be addressed in a general manner. If my daughter wants to address the issue, that is up to her. While I may be a "helicopter parent" I am certainly not one in this situation. If I were, I would be trying to change things to benefit her, not to benefit future PNMs.

[Sciencewoman]

The recruitment process isn't perfect, but it's been designed to efficiently manage the process of placing hundreds of interested PNMs. There will always be disappointments and hurt feelings -- and again, it's 18-22 year-olds we're talking about -- who are stressed, emotional, managing class work along with recruitment, etc. No policy or Panhellenic Council will ever be able to completely assuage disappointments and hurt feelings or control what every member says during recruitment, but the policies do try to do just that.

[clemsongirl]

Originally Posted by JLCo

It seems to me that sorority rush has many problems inherent in the process. Everyone on this board admits it. But when an outsider comments that things went wrong and criticizes some part of the process, some of the posters go into attack mode. And some offer positive critique or advice. Some just hunt for a way to discredit what you are saying. I really appreciate the ones who have gone out of their way to explain things. It really has made me feel much better about what my daughter is getting involved in.

I completely agree that there are some issues in how the sorority recruitment process works. No one here will claim that it's perfect, and if they do I'll bop them upside the head. That said, it's your daughter's experience, not yours. You can encourage her to report to Panhellenic, and it does sound like these women at a minimum need a refresher on how not to promise a bid, but anything you convey to the fraternity and sorority life office will be filtered through your words.

Imagine her saying "this experience happened to me, and I want to make sure it won't happen again" versus "this experience happened to my daughter, but I wasn't there". One is more impactful than the other, and I think to effect meaningful change out of an anonymous report the information should come from the person it happened to.

[QLB817]

Originally Posted by JLCo

Did you read what I said? I said I might contact them anonymously. How exactly do you think I would be able to enact any kind of change for her benefit by contacting them anonymously????????

I said it should be addressed in a general manner. If my daughter wants to address the issue, that is up to her. While I may be a "helicopter parent" I am certainly not one in this situation. If I were, I would be trying to change things to benefit her, not to benefit future PNMs.

This is your daughter's campus. Unless you are an alumna advisor to any of the Panhellenic groups, it really isn't your place in any form. If anyone is to address the council, it should be your daughter. Even anonymously, it shouldn't be done by you. Stay in your lane.

She is an adult now. Your job is advice to her. Your job is guidance to her. Advise her that she can make a complaint with Panhellenic. If she chooses to do that, great. If not, step back and move on.

(Now, if it was a situation where the groups were doing something illegal or dangerous, you might have a case where you could contact them, but this is neither. This is internal Panhellenic rules that govern the recruitment process. As a non-Greek and a parent, your role should be much more detached.)