People you don't want as sisters - Page 2

IvySpice · #16 10-21-2002, 06:15 PM

Optimist, sure you're normal...you're a normal guy!

There are just different cultural expectations for women. I have been in a situation where a psycho girl -- we're talking the kind of person who gives a whole room full of people the willies because she acts so crazy -- was very excited about joining my group. We had already cut her once. But when she came up to me all excited, I could never have said to her, "Listen, we just don't want you, and that's never going to change." That kind of bald truth would have, at best, made her run home sobbing and garnered me a community-wide reputation for being a coldhearted b!tch. At worst, we'd have been reading about her suicide in the campus paper the next day.

I don't think we should have taken her, but I do think we were right to try and soften the blow any way we could. We probably didn't do as good a job as we could have. She ended up flipping out over the second time she was cut, hitting her head on the wall in public, etc...very sad situation.

Ivy

CutiePie2000 · #17 10-21-2002, 06:15 PM

On the heels of what Valkyrie said, I think it's important to manage the Potential New Member's expectations (whether they are a Collegiate PNM or a Prospective Alumna Initiate).

If you have a feeling deep deep down, that the person in question will not be receiving a bid, or approved as a candidate for initiation, I think it is important to emphasize to that person that their quest may not be successful.

That way, if they are turned down, their hopes will not be as high.
If they press to know the reason why, you can say that all chapter discussions are confidential.

And..if they end up hating you, well, unfortunately, that is something that could potentially happen and is unavoidable.
Such is life....sigh......

XOMichelle · #18 10-21-2002, 06:57 PM

I gues it isn't my decision or anyone's decision in particular if someone gets a bid or not, but people can look quite normal in a half an hour chat. We have had numebrous girls who seemed perfectly fine in rush and then turned out to have 0 real social skills, or were really not interesed in being in a sorority. They way I see it, if you know a PNM, you should speak up on her behalf if warranted, or against her if necessary. I would want my sisters to do that for me!
-M

Optimist Prime · #19 10-21-2002, 07:04 PM

Yay I'm normal!!!

Anyway.

The only person I wouldn't want in my chapter is a nazi, racist, etc person. Otherwise I say give them a chance maybe. They might be surprise you.

aephi alum · #20 10-21-2002, 07:26 PM

I was in just this situation in my very first rush from the other side. I think I've posted this story in the "Rushee from Hell" thread (or whatever it was called) from a while back.

A PNM came through rush (let's call her Susie) and really clicked with one of the sisters she talked to during first round. This girl felt Susie was a bit shy and quiet but otherwise would make a good sister, and encouraged us all to try to draw her out and rush her hard. OK so far.

During second round I was one of the "lucky" sisters who got to rush Susie. Within five minutes I realized she was not just shy, she was massively insecure, and she wanted the security of a guaranteed group of friends, and the popularity, especially with the guys, that she thought Greek letters on a shirt would bring her. She wanted the support of sisters, but didn't seem to want to be supportive in turn.

She was not invited to pref by any sorority.

A few weeks later, we held a COB rush, and every sister was asked to invite at least one PNM. The sister that Susie clicked with during first round, invited her. Susie showed up with the attitude that she was guaranteed a bid, "when do I get my first letters, when is initiation, etc" ... well, she was wrong.

I truly believe - especially having observed her over the next few years that we were in school together - that, had she pledged, she would have done considerably more harm than good.

If someone I wouldn't want as a sister approached me about a rec, or I learned she was going to a school where AEPhi has a chapter, I'd send off a no-rec. If someone I wouldn't want as a sister were to approach me about alum initiation, I have an easy out in that AEPhi doesn't do alum initiation... but if that changes (as I hope it will) I would simply tell them the proper procedure to follow, then alert the national office and local alum chapters to look out. But, it would take a LOT for me to take that sort of action... I trust my sisters to know who wouldn't make a good sister.

pinkyphimu · #21 10-21-2002, 07:33 PM

well, this happened to me when i was a collegiate. there was a girl that i was friendly with who really really really wanted to be in my chapter. she had rushed the same time that i did and was not given a bid. the following year, she went through formal rush again. during each voting session, whether or not she should be invited back was the hot topic. she ended up being invited to every party. everyone knew her....everyone had seen things she had done (ie. lie to people, make up stories, etc. etc. etc) but some people were still friends with her. we did end up cutting her and i did feel badly, even tho i was one of the sisters who felt the strongest that she shouldn't be a sister. she never asked me or my roommate what happened. i know that she was devastated. but at the same time, i know that it was what was best for the chapter. she did cry to us, but all we said was that we were sorry that things worked out that way. afterwards, she would wear pink on our letter days. and she would say how she was a phi mu at heart even if she didn't get to pledge with us. it was kind of psycho, but it did let sisters know that we made the right decision.

one of my friends is an advisor. she told those women to "trust your sister." if a sister feels so strongly that someone should not be a memeber, then go with them! i guess this is my best advice. hopefully, you won't need to explain yourself! if you do know the person, i would have someone else break the news.

arrowgirl · #22 10-21-2002, 08:39 PM

Optimist Prime: Am I normal? This thread is freaking me out.

OP, I am with you.

I think this whole thread is pretty crappy.

When I rushed, I know that there were girls in the house who didn't want me there, and people who did. I had made some mistakes in my earlier college experience. However, once they offered me a bid, and I eventually decided to take it, there is no one in the house who could say I am a bad sister. My pledge term, I went to every single meeting, function, random get together they planned. And now, no one can say that I don't look out for my sisters. I love them to death.

You're right that you don't know what each person is like, that you don't get the time to know them well. But not everyone is going to mess up and give your group a kick in the ass.

You're doing one thing I hate the most of any personality trait. You are judging these girls by who you THINK they are, without trying to get to know them better. And in the Greek world, I would think that everyone would be about not perpetuating stereotypes, and getting along.

Or maybe it is just me.

carnation · #23 10-21-2002, 08:57 PM

Arrowgirl, we're mostly talking about girls whom we know to be disturbed. In the case I cited, I had seen the girl have irrational screaming fits, go off on several supervisors at different times, and finally, slap another employee in the face who was disagreeing mildly with her. There was no way I wanted her wearing the arrow--nor did my AOII daughter care to have her wearing her pin either. When the girl pledged, tore up her sorority, and was kicked out, our fears were justified.

I would never no-rec someone I just didn't like! But I'm confident I did the right thing with the one on her.

Does anyone else remember the stories that dzsaigirl and dzrose93 both told about the psycho rushees at their schools on the thread "Weird Rush Stories"? It would be horrible to have women like that in your sorority.

breathesgelatin · #24 10-21-2002, 09:57 PM

ok, i have to speak in the vaguest, vaguest terms, since i go to a school with a very competitive rush.

i have a friend in my class (i'm a sophomore) who rushed last year and was not invited back to pref night. she really, really, really wanted my house. this year she's rushing again. last year she had some problems. she was insecure and needy and put-on. but after pledgeship several friends talked with her about it, in a way that was not "you have problems" but "we are worried about you". this summer, she worked through a lot of the issues in various ways i can't go into here. she has really improved her behaviour and is a lot of fun now, going to parties, meeting lots of freshmen, being active on campus, etc. so i think that there is always room for reconsideration. some people do change, and could become benefits to a chapter.

also, some stereotypes just aren't justified. there have been some big issues on our campus this year. i'm not going to go into them here, but if you read our campus newspapers online, you could probably figure it out, if you're that nosy. there have been situations with certain sorority women telling a freshmen she's "balled" TO HER FACE.

that's completely unclassy and uncalled for. they're judging her on a overblown stereotype. (not that some reputations aren't justified; there are some girls i can't stand in the freshmen class, yet, i am polite to them, if not super-friendly and available. i certainly don't seek them out to say negative things!)

in other news, my school's panhellenic decided to grant two free
sophomores to each chapter this year in rush. there are 8 sophomores rushing, and 5 houses! hopefully, this will mean that upperclass rush will become more appealing on our campus (although we are not supposed to advertise the fact that it is being instituted). there are no juniors or seniors rushing, although i am sure this rule would apply to them too.

starang21 · #25 10-21-2002, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Optimist Prime
Am I normal? This thread is freaking me out.

Actully I'd just be like "uh..."

here's an effective way...

plege the shit out of her enough to get her to drop. probably wouldn't work, huh?

CutiePie2000 · #26 10-21-2002, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by starang21
here's an effective way...
plege the shit out of her enough to get her to drop. probably wouldn't work, huh?

If it's hazing you're suggesting, that's a bad idea.
A chapter would most likely to definitely lose its charter for doing so.

I think what most people are advocating is "prevention" (i.e. do not extend a bid in the first place) rather "reaction" (i.e. saying "Oops, we extended a bid to a bad apple, how do we undo this?"). The question is, how do you let someone down easy? *That* is the crux of this thread.

starang21 · #27 10-21-2002, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IvySpice
That kind of bald truth would have, at best, made her run home sobbing and garnered me a community-wide reputation for being a coldhearted b!tch. At worst, we'd have been reading about her suicide in the campus paper the next day.

Ivy

oh well, that's the way it goes sometimes. it's not your fault she's an idiot.

starang21 · #28 10-21-2002, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CutiePie2000

If it's hazing you're suggesting, that's a bad idea.
A chapter would most likely to definitely lose its charter for doing so.

I think what most people are advocating is "prevention" (i.e. do not extend a bid in the first place) rather "reaction" (i.e. saying "Oops, we extended a bid to a bad apple, how do we undo this?"). The question is, how do you let someone down easy? *That* is the crux of this thread.

nah, no point in letting them down easy, tell them the blunt truth and call it a day. what's the point of being nice and 2 faced to someone you really don't like? just let them know they're wack and move on. after a while they'll move on, too.

dzrose93 · #29 10-21-2002, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by starang21

nah, no point in letting them down easy, tell them the blunt truth and call it a day. what's the point of being nice and 2 faced to someone you really don't like? just let them know they're wack and move on. after a while they'll move on, too.

I don't agree with that at all, and here's why: If you are brutally honest with a girl who you KNOW is not going to be extended a bid because of a very valid reason, then you will most likely embarrass and offend her. If you offend her, then you increase the likelihood of her causing problems for your organization in the future.

Generally, sororities want girls to have a favorable impression of our organizations -- ALL girls, not just the ones that we invite into our sisterhood. If we are rude to someone, then you can bet that the girl isn't going to leave our house with anything good to say about our GLO in the future. However, if we are polite and treat her nicely while she is a visitor to our rush parties, then we give her no "ammunition" with which to hold a grudge. Sure, she may be very disappointed in not receiving a bid. But that disappointment is nothing compared to the resentment that she would harbor if she was told point blank that she wouldn't be invited to pledge because of her personality, reputation, etc.

Also, something else to consider is that the girl in question may not be a candidate for pledgeship, but that she may have a friend or classmate who is. You certainly don't want her to give anyone else a poor impression of your group because some of those other acquaintances of hers may be ideal candidates for your GLO.

starang21 · #30 10-21-2002, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dzrose93

I don't agree with that at all, and here's why: If you are brutally honest with a girl who you KNOW is not going to be extended a bid because of a very valid reason, then you will most likely embarrass and offend her. If you offend her, then you increase the likelihood of her causing problems for your organization in the future.

Generally, sororities want girls to have a favorable impression of our organizations -- ALL girls, not just the ones that we invite into our sisterhood. If we are rude to someone, then you can bet that the girl isn't going to leave our house with anything good to say about our GLO in the future. However, if we are polite and treat her nicely while she is a visitor to our rush parties, then we give her no "ammunition" with which to hold a grudge. Sure, she may be very disappointed in not receiving a bid. But that disappointment is nothing compared to the resentment that she would harbor if she was told point blank that she wouldn't be invited to pledge because of her personality, reputation, etc.

Also, something else to consider is that the girl in question may not be a candidate for pledgeship, but that she may have a friend or classmate who is. You certainly don't want her to give anyone else a poor impression of your group because some of those other acquaintances of hers may be ideal candidates for your GLO.

but if you don't accept her, why would she say anything good about it anyway? i'm pretty sure she'll resent you if you've already rejected her. you're already going to burn a bridge, might as well be truthful to yourself as well as to her. if you don't like her, don't prance around like you'll be her friend after you reject her. that's bogus. why would she tell her friends to join if you didnt' even accept her? and you didn't tell her what you didn't like about her, then why would she change for better? she doesn't know her faults. its pointless to roll your eyes and just pretend there isn't a problem, that doesn't solve anything, and it's 2 faced for that matter.