American University date rape column angers students

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Men are not animals.

Has every man on this board gone all the way with every woman and/or man that they THOUGHT they would go all the way with? If she and/or he suddenly said NO, did any of you just TAKE IT because you needed to bust a nut?

NO, oh my god. I wouldn't rape someone who suddenly said no. I know, because it's happened. And I was surprised. It was her time of the month. I didn't really care if her un-used eggs and uterine lining got on my penis, but she didn't like the idea. We ended up hooking up later and actually dating for awhile.

But that doesn't change the fact that entire reason I was at the party was to get laid.

[APhiAnna]

If a drunken girl follows a guy back to their room, they are not insinuating that they want to have sex. They may just want to make-out, or they may consider the guy "a friend" and just want to hang out away from a busy party. So I think his statements were out of line.

I do, however, feel that a lot of rape laws are unfair towards men. At least in California, if a girl is inebriated and she consents to sex drunk, the next morning she can technically say she's been raped if she thinks she would not have done it sober. Obviously I think any guy who would have sex with a woman who is drunk beyond coherency (ie, throwing up, having trouble standing, clearly not aware of surroundings, etc) is disgusting. But if she is not in that state, and is just party drunk, and she consents to sex and then later cries rape I think it is incredibly unfair on her part. She chose to get drunk and should take the consequences.

If she is in a state of total incoherency like I stated above, or the guy forced himself on her when she is drunk, then that is a whole different ballgame. But I think as the law stands it gives women too much wiggle room for an action they should take the consequences for...it is unfair to the guys if she originally consented, and it is unfair to all the women who are actually raped because her claims tend to invalidate REAL date rape in many people's minds.

I do however think that the ridiculous claims (if she dressed slutty she is asking for it, "no" means yes) are absurd and disgusting.

My other pet peeve is when women claim they were rufied when it was clear to everybody at the party it was not the case...a girl I knew once claimed she was rufied when everybody at the party saw this tiiiny girl take upwards of 7-8 shots over the course of an hour...it is just as likely she blacked out. Once again, a man accused of rape/rufies is essentially guilty in the public's eyes, and it is not fair to him. It is also not fair to women that actually were rufied because when the situation is obviously "not" the case, it invalidates future claims.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I don't know whether you were being sincere or attempting smug sarcasm, so FUCK YOU just in case.

I would say when and where, but then you'd just cry date rape.

And yeah, I was just messing with you. I think this guy is a giant douche.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Guys only go to parties to look for girls to have sex with. If you go back to his room willingly, people will assume that you want to have sex with him.

No.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by sceniczip

I've never gone back to someone's room at a party other than my boyfriend's room. However, even when going to bf's room at a party they're hosting doesn't mean we're going to have sex. It means I don't want to be in the party any longer.

I do know girls who go into a male friend's room to lay down or who spend the night there without having sex. I have a very good friend who usually spends the night with one of our close male friends when his house hosts a party. They've never had sex, she just lives about 20 minutes away from him so doesn't go home when drinking.

Also, all guys don't just go to parties to find girls to have sex with. Sorry not buying that for a minute. Maybe some guys do, maybe most guys do, but not all of them.

Those are your FRIENDS though, right? Not random guys you meet.

I'm not saying every random guy is going to try force himself on you, or that you owe him any sex just because you want to leave the party at the same time, but if you are talking for any length of time with him, and you leave together, and then you go to his room, he is thinking "alright! I'm gonna get some!" He is not thinking "Alright! This girl is going to like my collection of jazz records so we can compare our thoughts on the diz and getz collaborations."

Seriously. The vast majority of people go out to parties, and bars, etc. in order to meet someone and hook up. That's why their called "parties."
Otherwise, they'd be called "meetings."

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

"no" means yes

TWICE in the last month have I heard a man say this. RI-FREAKING-DICULOUS. I can't believe there are people who actually believe that.

[DaemonSeid]

Still the bottom line is the author of the op ed is just trying to rile people up.

More than 5 glasses of liquor?

Really? Based on what scientific study?

Yes, clearly he wants to be the next Rush:

Let’s get this straight: any woman who heads to an EI party as an anonymous onlooker, drinks five cups of the jungle juice, and walks back to a boy’s room with him is indicating that she wants sex, OK? To cry “date rape” after you sober up the next morning and regret the incident is the equivalent of pulling a gun to someone’s head and then later claiming that you didn’t ever actually intend to pull the trigger.

“Date rape” is an incoherent concept. There’s rape and there’s not-rape, and we need a line of demarcation. It’s not clear enough to merely speak of consent, because the lines of consent in sex — especially anonymous sex — can become very blurry. If that bothers you, then stick with Pat Robertson and his brigade of anti-sex cavemen! Don’t jump into the sexual arena if you can’t handle the volatility of its practice!

Feminists don’t understand history, psychology, biology or sexuality. To repair this desperate situation, I have altruistically prepared a list of five favored books about sex and gender: “The Myth of Male Power” by Warren Farrell, “The Sexual Spectrum” by Olive Skene Johnson, “Vamps and Tramps” by Camille Paglia, “Philosophy In the Bedroom” by the divine Marquis de Sade, and “Who Stole Feminism?” by Christina Hoff Sommers. Put down the Andrea Dworkin and embrace the fires of sexuality!

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

TWICE in the last month have I heard a man say this. RI-FREAKING-DICULOUS. I can't believe there are people who actually believe that.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by sceniczip

I've never gone back to someone's room at a party other than my boyfriend's room. However, even when going to bf's room at a party they're hosting doesn't mean we're going to have sex. It means I don't want to be in the party any longer.

I do know girls who go into a male friend's room to lay down or who spend the night there without having sex. I have a very good friend who usually spends the night with one of our close male friends when his house hosts a party. They've never had sex, she just lives about 20 minutes away from him so doesn't go home when drinking.

Also, all guys don't just go to parties to find girls to have sex with. Sorry not buying that for a minute. Maybe some guys do, maybe most guys do, but not all of them.

Those are your FRIENDS though, right? Not random guys you meet.

I'm not saying every random guy is going to try force himself on you, or that you owe him any sex just because you want to leave the party at the same time, but if you are talking for any length of time with him, and you leave together, and then you go to his room, he is thinking "alright! I'm gonna get some!" He is not thinking "Alright! This girl is going to like my collection of jazz records so we can compare our thoughts on the diz and getz collaborations."

Seriously. The vast majority of people go out to parties, and bars, etc. in order to meet someone and hook up. That's why their called "parties."
Otherwise, they'd be called "meetings."

[christiangirl]

So at the next frat party, if he downs 6 beers then heads into the back room with a guy claiming he wants to show him his new "laptop," he doesn't get to cry foul in the morning when he's hungover and his butt hurts.

[dreamseeker]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

So at the next frat party, if he downs 6 beers then heads into the back room with a guy claiming he wants to show him his new "laptop," he doesn't get to cry foul in the morning when he's hungover and his butt hurts.

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

It was her time of the month. I didn't really care if her un-used eggs and uterine lining got on my penis, but she didn't like the idea.

LOL.

[sceniczip]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Those are your FRIENDS though, right? Not random guys you meet.

I'm not saying every random guy is going to try force himself on you, or that you owe him any sex just because you want to leave the party at the same time, but if you are talking for any length of time with him, and you leave together, and then you go to his room, he is thinking "alright! I'm gonna get some!" He is not thinking "Alright! This girl is going to like my collection of jazz records so we can compare our thoughts on the diz and getz collaborations."

Seriously. The vast majority of people go out to parties, and bars, etc. in order to meet someone and hook up. That's why their called "parties."
Otherwise, they'd be called "meetings."

True, they are friends. I would never go back to a stranger's room for many reasons. If it's a stranger then you're probably right, he's thinking you're ready to have sex with him.

And idk about going to parties and bars in order to meet someone and hook up. I know a lot of my sisters go to the bars on Thursdays to just go out. They don't go out to hook up with someone.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I don't know whether you were being sincere or attempting smug sarcasm, so FUCK YOU just in case.

No. It's that he doesn't understand the difference between "victim precipitation" and "victim blame." Date rape, as with all forms of rape, is about more than just drunk and horny people. You can advise people on how to be safer without dismissing that type of victimization altogether. I wonder what he would say if someone laughed at the homosexual victims of power-based crimes that involve sex.

He's talking about date rape at fraternity parties. That is a relatively small percentage of the total rapes and sexual assaults that occur, but a larger percentage if we're only talking about college campuses. He needs to do his research instead of sniffing his own anus (not a gay joke) just because he has an opinion that he thinks is profound and "brutally honest."

He has to do better than this if he hopes to ever be taken seriously as a political commentator. We have enough political commentators who just get attention because of their delivery instead of their ability to have intellectual discourse.

The way he said it was stupid and intended to infuriate, not to encourage intelligent discussion.

BUT.

This is a grey area a lot of the time and both men and women HAVE to understand that you can't always prove rape in that situation and you can't always prove it wasn't. I've been in a situation, before you tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

We had a guy come to our campus one time to start a discussion about that type of situation and he had people throw out situations and then he'd explain how it could be argued in court either for rape or against it. And it was really enlightening, because by the end of the discussion, we were all undecided. A girl will have her entire sexual history brought up and dissected and it's hard in most cases to prove she wouldn't sleep with a guy unless she had drinks. A guy will face judgment for not being able to tell a girl is too drunk to consent, even if he was drunk himself. What it comes down to is NEITHER should have sex drunk. It's too dangerous for both and waking up and not being able to remember what happened can be scary...and make it very hard to prove rape. It's a unique situation from rapes involving physical force or drugs. If a woman thinks she was date raped she shouldn't feel like she can't/should not report it, but she needs to understand what an uphill battle it will be if she chooses to and needs to understand the alleged rapist may not be convicted. It's a horrible choice to make, so the best advice is to use the buddy system and not go home with someone when trashed.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by sceniczip

True, they are friends. I would never go back to a stranger's room for many reasons. If it's a stranger then you're probably right, he's thinking you're ready to have sex with him.

And idk about going to parties and bars in order to meet someone and hook up. I know a lot of my sisters go to the bars on Thursdays to just go out. They don't go out to hook up with someone.

Again, those are your SISTERS. I'm not yelling, I just don't feel like dealing with the italics thing.

And sometimes I go out for other reasons to, but not so much when I was in college. And even now, in the back of of mind, is always, "you might find something."

[Prettyface08]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Those are your FRIENDS though, right? Not random guys you meet.

I'm not saying every random guy is going to try force himself on you, or that you owe him any sex just because you want to leave the party at the same time, but if you are talking for any length of time with him, and you leave together, and then you go to his room, he is thinking "alright! I'm gonna get some!" He is not thinking "Alright! This girl is going to like my collection of jazz records so we can compare our thoughts on the diz and getz collaborations."

Seriously. The vast majority of people go out to parties, and bars, etc. in order to meet someone and hook up. That's why their called "parties."
Otherwise, they'd be called "meetings."

This is stupid. But I guess since you personally KNOW the vast majority of people, you're speaking with first-hand knowledge.