balanced man vs traditional - Page 2

SigEpVegan · #16 01-19-2002, 04:35 PM

Balanced man chapters not competing? Well that's a first. Most brothers in Non-Balanced Man Chapters do not like the ideal of the BMP. I was one of them. I dispised the project at first. It is hard to discard you misconceptions that you aquired when you are pledging. But that's something that has to be dealt with by the brother alone. If they do not change with the chapter (if it's time comes) then they will be discarded as "the bad apples".

sigep_165 · #17 02-04-2002, 12:45 AM

We all need to remember that pledging model chapters are not "traditional" chapters. To call them that, we are saying that BMP chapters have no tradition.

SigEpVegan · #18 02-04-2002, 01:46 AM

Definitely, can we all say Non-Balanced Man Project Chapters because that's the national term.

SigEp God · #19 02-04-2002, 12:21 PM

you guys are a bunch of idiots........who the hell cares whether we call them traditional or non-balanced man?

here is my take, since it seems to be so very important to you.
I'm from Texas, I call them traditional. I dont think that by calling them traditional i am insinuating that 'balanced man chapters" have no tradition. I myself am from a balanced man chapter. Calling traditional chapters non-balanced man chapters is bullshit.

"traditionally" SigEp chapters were pledge oriented. Thus they are the traditional style chapter.

BMP is a new program. Give them their due.

Emil

SigEp Alum · #20 02-06-2002, 12:42 AM

"Calling 'Non-Balanced Man' chapters 'traditional' implies that Balanced Man chapters have no tradition."

Well, individual BMP chapters may have some traditions on their own accord but the Balanced Man program is about as "traditional" as cell phones. I have no qualm with calling a spade a spade - traditional chapters are just that - traditional (ya know, with the evil pledge system and all).

Now, for truth's sake, I won't sit here and defend the "traditional" (pledge) system with claims that "its always been done that way." First of all, I may be an alumni, but I'm only 22, and secondly, the truth is that for the first few years of the Fraternity, there was no pledge system. But for that matter, there was no Ritual as we know it, either. These things took a few years to develop.

I think that the Balanced Man program is a travesty because it says to the world that SigEp was sub-par before the institution of this system. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying there is nothing good about the BMP, but the good aspects could have been implemented without doing away with the traditional pledge system and completely (in my opinion) shredding the Ritual by dividing it into unnatural "rites."

Another problem (and probably my biggest problem) with the BMP is the way it is being handeled by Nationals. I realize that, at this point, a traditional chapter cannot be forced to adopt the Balanced Man program (unless they are kicked off campus) but I am affraid that in the not-so-distant future, we will see a move to force all remaining traditional chapters to become BM chapters.

I think that it is asanine that new and re-chartered chapters do not have the choice as to whether or not they will be traditional or Balanced Man. Does our Fraternity really have something against traditional chapters? Evidently so. Just look at the current policy- it makes it look as though BMP chapters are preferable to traditional chapters. If they are not, why not give newly chartered chapters a choice as to whether they want to be traditional or Balanced Man? The answer to that question is right up there with "Where is Jimmy Hoffa?"

My opinion is that all of the traditional chapters that are left should band together (with friendly BMP chapters) at the next Conclave and get a bill passed protecting existing traditional chapters from being forced to go BM, ever.

Sorry about the ranting and raving but coming from a traditional chapter (and a Southern one at that), I was there as we swatted Nationals' not-so-subtle suggestions year after year that we become Balanced Man. And believe you me, it is very disHEARTening to feel like you are a "second-class" chapter in the eyes of your national fraternity simply because of your age and by virtue of the fact that you cherish your Fraternity's heritage and tradition.

In the Heart,
SigEp Alumni - HFF

SigEp God · #21 02-06-2002, 01:29 AM

Right on dude,

The BMP is totally just a marketing move and nationals is "forcing" everyone to go balanced man. I like some aspects of the BMP and I like some things about the traditional chapters. I dont think nationals should be forcing bmp on everyone, but thats whats happening. Anyhow,

whatever.

Emil

sigep860 · #22 02-10-2002, 06:33 PM

i am a brother of a traditional chapter and i am obviously biased to traditional. I loved my PLEDGE semester, and loved my fellow pledge brothers, and i dont see that love being stronger in a BMP. We worked together, got messed with together, and had hell week together...Now there isnt one single moment in my life that i can compare the moments to my hell week with ..NOTHING..all the mental anguish all the struggles all THE DAMN JOY OF THE HUGS and LOVE that that week produced is impossible to put into words...i am sure BMP has its good points but right off i see the main loss of unity which in my eyes equals love........860

SigEpGodUDM · #23 02-18-2002, 05:30 PM

I am a Sig Ep in MIchigan. I just finshed pledging last term. I had a blast. Sure I went through a lot and there were mental struggles but there was no hazing. The principle of bringing a group of brothers together is preserved in a pledge class. It forces the pledges to get to know their older members. Going BM gives me no incentive to get to know the older brothers and as for the chapters I have visited that are balance man I have met no new members who understand the full concept of being a brother. I was taught the address and songs the grip and the way a true brother should be. On our road trip i met new members who didn't even know the address to their house let alone the songs in which our fraternity lies dear. True our founding fathers were not traditional but who would have pledged them because there was no one in front of them. Obviously at some point the founders decided to go with a traditional style chapter and I think it was a right thing to do. It promotes unity amongst all not some. I will keep my fraternity traditional till the day i die and as for you guys who say traditional is subpar well my chapter just doubled numbers from 16 to 32 and we hold 4 out of five positions on ifc including pres. We have the second highest g.p.a on campus and we have the strongest group unity. We run our campus and we love it. Not to mention we love each other.

On an ending note, as fitting as this may seem. We need to stop arguing about which style is better. We all have our preferences and we should be allowed to go as we choose. We must remember we are all brothers and brothers should not dislike each other nor argue to change each other. Sigma Phi Epsilon is not just a fraternity but it's a way fo life we need to keep sacred and entrust. We cannot just let anyone in then what our we the Boy scouts. Pledging eliminates the weak and the ones who can't commit full time. For the people who are music majors or athletes maybe the fraternal life is not for them. If they don't have the time to pledge then how do I know they will have the time for my fraternity which I hold dear. Think about it! Maybe the fraternity life is best left to those who can give it their all from the start not to be molded or shaped to fit a standard. Our diversity is what keeps us unique let's stay traditional and prevent a nazi like regime from running our fraternities.

SigepSoulja · #24 04-10-2002, 02:39 PM

We here at Washington Alpha are traditional and will remain that way as long as at least one of my boys has some say in our fraternity. We almost got shut down last year and we had nationals sending everybody they could out to us to give us a BMP sales pitch and threaten to take our charter away unless we droppped traditions that are 90 years old in favor of a program that might make the university like us a little bit more. We have always had one of the biggest houses on campus, always ranked top 5 in grades, and have been turning out balanced men since 1912. Hell Oscar Draper, Grand President-1928, who wrote the Creed of Sigma Phi Epsilon (page vii, LROB) put in a year of pledgeship and experienced the same week of initiation that everyone since has done in my house. EVERYTHING we do has meaning and is revealed during "I" week or pledgeship. True, the BMP program has a lot going for it, and has helped many chapters. Ive visited other houses, both BMP and traditional, and formed my own opinions from what Ive seen. So let me invite you to visit my house, and I will show one of the biggest, strongest, and most respected brotherhoods you've seen. But be forwarned, walk through the red door without being fully initiated and shit will hit the fan.

SigEpRaider · #25 04-15-2002, 02:52 AM

Gentlemen,

This is my first ever posting on greek chat as I have just signed up. Ms. SigEpRaider got me signed up. But I digress.

I am an alumni from University of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Gamma. During my 5 years at my chapter, I acquired a lot of knowelege that I'd like to share.

First of all, those of you who are saying that the founding fathers didn't have a pledge program are absolutely right. Pledging and "Hazing" didn't officially come into existance until after World War 2. After the war, There was a flood of people attending college due to the GI Bill that FDR instituted. After the Mental and Physical rigours that the men were expoesed to, they decided that they needed to "Haze" new members coming in to bond with them, because that's how they related to their comrades in the war. Obviously, this notion is now extremely outdated.

I am from a Traditional Chapter, and during my tenure there, I saw first hand how numbers dwindled and the quality of those we recruited fall along with the numbers. I now feel that the only way my chapter will survive another 5 years is if they go bmp. We had guys, about 80% of the chapter, get initiated, and then do NOTHING but take up space and valuable oxygen. With the BMP plan, if you don't participate, you eventually lose your membership status. It's that simple. NO Dead Wood. No Apathy, which is the main reason chapters die out. If you don't care enough to particiapte, than you have no buisness being a brother of this Fraternity. BMP will help weed out those weak links that we all have in our traditional chapters, making us stronger over all. And that's the real goal here.

SteveHofstetter · #26 04-17-2002, 05:49 PM

A few clarifications...

-SigEp has been growing nationally. So it couldn't have possibly shrunk due to the BMP.
-"Nationals" does not use the term "non-BMP" chapters. The idea is that we're all supposed to be balanced men, whether or not we pledge. Pledging is not an excuse to be balanced.
-There are arguments for both sides, but neither is a cure all. Both pledging and non-pledging model chapters can be wonderful, if they have the right men. Both will fail with the wrong men.

Also, "nationals" is not a faceless entity, as it seems to be portrayed here. The men (real people) who work as HQ staff put in several dozen hours each week for very little pay trying to help undergraduates have the best fraternity experience possible. There are also hundereds of unpaid volunteers who work towards the same goal. To think that HQ is in the business of closing chapters is sort of silly. If they kept closing chapters, where would they work? If a chapter behaves like the gentlemen they claim to be, there's not much chance of being "closed down." And if you don't want to be a gentleman, I say you need to examine why you chose to be a SigEp in the first place.

I'm not saying that everyone needs to be perfect--far from it. But the only way to be able to work hard and play hard is to start by working hard.

SigEpVegan · #27 04-18-2002, 01:25 PM

Sorry but that is all I hear from the headquarters staff is non-balanced man project chapter, which has the pledge model development system, when I used to refer to them as traditional. Agreed we are all balance man chapters but not all of us are balanced man project chapters.

endo · #28 05-24-2002, 06:11 PM

I come from a traditional chapter.

In my chapter you are either a brother or you are not!
There is no I've finsihed the sigma challenge so now I know a 1/3 of the ritual, or i've finished the Phi section now I'm 2/3 on my way.

BMP may be right for some chapters, but let the chapters decide. Just as diversity of men is the key in each chapter. So should diversity of each chapter be to the whole.

Our chapter program is not perfect by any means, however I hope natioanls will be generous with our faults, as we are with theirs and allow us to continue in peace and harmony.

SigepSoulja · #29 10-07-2002, 08:07 PM

Last week our loving naitonal HQ flew in our RD, director of expansion, and our old RD (Czar, good guy but not today) along with a board of our local alumni. The took our charter away and put my house under a "membership review". This entailed a one on one interview with the national reps and our own alumni where we were told that they are eliminating our pledgeship and implementing the BMP WITHOUT our vote. They can do this because when they took our charter we no longer had a say. This was ALL a result from a parent of a pussy PLEDGE (thats freshman or sigma challenge now I guess) whom called the University about our late night workoffs. The result of these interviews was expulsion of 35 members and 2 freshman, leaving 21 guys in the house who pleased the alumni. WE WERE TOLD THAT OUR LOCAL TRADITIONS AND PARTS OF RITUALS WILL NO LONGER CONTINUE BECAUSE THEY CONTAIN SOME FORM OF HAZEING. We are the 2nd oldest and one of the last tradional chapters on the westcoast, and in this past week Ive seen everything Ive loved and thought my house stood for crumble. Traditions that have gone down here for 90 years and that have made me a much better person has stopped and will no longer continue. I am no longer allowed on our property, cannot wear letters, cannot identify myself as a sigep, and am definatly not supposed to take part in house functions anymore. ALL because my boys and I were keeping shit alive that we loved and respected and all went through ourselves. Apperently once we graduate we get alumni status, I suppose thats so nationals can hit me up for cash one im a wealthy alumn. whatever. They destroyed the strogest and most respected brotherhood at WSU. They cut my pledge class in half and only allowed half to stay. "Stick with your boys..no matter what" was beat into my head for an entire year. The times I went through during my pledgeship was some of the best of my life. The last day of my initiation was probally the greatest.They have taken a tried and proven method of developing strong brotherhood makeing truly better men and abolished it. I was tought to love the house with all I had. I can tell you how many tiles are on our chapter room floor, planks on the wall, steps in the house and the initiation number of every one of my seniors. This all stopped. I feel worst for the sophmores who signed at semester last spring and are due up for thier "I" week. They will never be a true member. They will not do the same thing that the 1647 before them had. They wont have the experience, the growth, and the understanding. I learned the true meanings of virtue, diligence, brotherly love and most importantly HFF. Where is any of that now? I had so much pride and faith in this brotherhood and I feel like Ive been stabbed in the back. Its a dark day for WA Alpaha, and if this is the way our fraternity is headed on a national scale then I am sorry for us all.
-ALI, 1650 (did I mention they eliminated #s, one of the most respected things in my house?)

Leiser · #30 03-20-2003, 02:28 AM

I went to a BMP "leadership program" a few months ago and all of the BMP guys that I met were dorks. I also met a few other traditional pledges and they were cool as hell. Maybe I just met a bad group of BMP members, but I think that the balanced man chapters recruit different types of kids who just are not same as many of the traditional chapters, but I could be wrong.