Law School...

[kddani]

Originally posted by USCTKE
ok passion was the wrong word...but the only thing I could think of at the time...should have said very strong interest I guess, even spent a lot of time around the county courthouse the summer after my senior year just trying to get a feel for some of the things that lawyers had to do. My general education classes are the ones that drag my GPA down...because they just arent interesting to me and sometimes I do not devote as much time to them as I should...my philosophy (Intro to Logic) class this semester for example, my professor spent almost a month going over the simpliest material (mostly just common sense stuff (like if a=b and b=c then a=c very simple stuff)...I ended up getting bored in class because she went over the same thing day after day. I was half paying attention in class by the end of September when she started moving on and then she went through the rest of the class (the harder part) spending only one class (on average) per topic...I am not doing that bad in the class (I should be able to pull out a B if I get a good grade on my final)...it seems like the easier the material taught is the less time I spend studying...which is completly my fault...next semester I am taking a Constitutional law class and the Judicial process class that USC offers.

Starting paying attention in logic. It will help you a TON on the logic games portion of the LSAT. I took Intro to Logic my freshman year, thought it was a breeze and got an A+, but didn't retain as much as I would've liked to. If you do well and review it every so often after the class is open, it will help you a lot with the LSAT.

[ZetaPhi708]

Originally posted by kddani
Starting paying attention in logic. It will help you a TON on the logic games portion of the LSAT. I took Intro to Logic my freshman year, thought it was a breeze and got an A+, but didn't retain as much as I would've liked to. If you do well and review it every so often after the class is open, it will help you a lot with the LSAT.

Hey Kddani, here is a course description from the UTC catalog about a logic course they offer. Do you think that this would qualify for a good logic course? I too am trying to get prepped for law school by also getting my GPA up to an acceptable level and prep for the LSAT.

Phil 211 Logic, Language, and Evidence (3)
An examination of accepted forms of reasoning and of the varied ways in which language functions; fallacy, definition, metaphor, and theories of meaning; examples from such areas as science, law, politics, theology, and philosophy; classical and symbolic logic; deductive techniques; induction and deduction contrasted.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by ZetaPhi708
Hey Kddani, here is a course description from the UTC catalog about a logic course they offer. Do you think that this would qualify for a good logic course? I too am trying to get prepped for law school by also getting my GPA up to an acceptable level and prep for the LSAT.

Phil 211 Logic, Language, and Evidence (3)
An examination of accepted forms of reasoning and of the varied ways in which language functions; fallacy, definition, metaphor, and theories of meaning; examples from such areas as science, law, politics, theology, and philosophy; classical and symbolic logic; deductive techniques; induction and deduction contrasted.

That sounds like it would be great for LSAT stuff.

[kddani]

Doesn't sound too bad to me, but it may also be overkill and make you overanalyze stuff! The joy of being in the law is that you overanalyze everything to death that sometimes you miss the simple stuff.

Basic logic stuff is great for the LSAT. After your finals, while you're kickin' it over Christmas break, start in on some LSAT stuff. Logic games is the one section where practice really can help your score. Plus continually applying what you learned in logic class will help you retain it.

[CarolinaDG]

Originally posted by USCTKE
ok passion was the wrong word...but the only thing I could think of at the time...should have said very strong interest I guess, even spent a lot of time around the county courthouse the summer after my senior year just trying to get a feel for some of the things that lawyers had to do. My general education classes are the ones that drag my GPA down...because they just arent interesting to me and sometimes I do not devote as much time to them as I should...my philosophy (Intro to Logic) class this semester for example, my professor spent almost a month going over the simpliest material (mostly just common sense stuff (like if a=b and b=c then a=c very simple stuff)...I ended up getting bored in class because she went over the same thing day after day. I was half paying attention in class by the end of September when she started moving on and then she went through the rest of the class (the harder part) spending only one class (on average) per topic...I am not doing that bad in the class (I should be able to pull out a B if I get a good grade on my final)...it seems like the easier the material taught is the less time I spend studying...which is completly my fault...next semester I am taking a Constitutional law class and the Judicial process class that USC offers.

All right, stand back folks, here's advice from someone who went to USC and has a TON of friends in law school from there....

1-I'm a little pissed at you that you think you can get into law school if you don't get intro to logic.... HELLLOOOO... what do you think that law school/the LSAT is. I made a 105 in Intro to Logic. Yes, that's right folks, 105. I also scored perfect (like, none wrong) on my LSATs in the logic-game portion. Coincidence? I think not. Wake up. Pay attention. It's an easy class, but it's important for your LSAT's. Usually they'll tell you that the first day.

2-One of my good friends is currently at Columbia Law School. To give you a little hint, when he and I took our LSAT's, I scored in the top 50% and he scored in the top 97%. He got into Georgetown, USC (Carolina), Columbia, and was waitlisted at Harvard. Here is what I know about his resume:
-Social Fraternity (he dropped out, but I'm sure he still listed it)
-APO
-Dance Marathon Exec
-Student Senate
-Student Body Treasurer
-Honors College
-Philosophy Award
-Swanger Award
-Raquetball Club
-Who's Who
-Outstanding Senior
-Alpha Lambda Delta
-Omicron Delta Kappa
-I'm not sure his GPA, but my guess is 3.75 or higher
He also had the Director of Student Activities as a reference... of course, it wouldn't surprise me, knowing him, if he had the president as well.


Here is another friend of mine who got into USC:
-Social Fraternity (officer)
-Dance Marathon Morale
-Student Senate
-Honors College
-Sullivan Award
-Who's Who
-Outstanding Senior
-Alpha Lambda Delta
-Omicron Delta Kappa (president)

Another friend, USC:
-Social Fraternity (officer)
-Dance Marathon Exec
-Student Senate (I think, I'm not sure)
-Honors College
-who's Who
-Outstanding Senior
-Alpha Lambda Delta
-Omicron Delta Kappa

Here's one of the weaker resumes that I've seen get into USC:
-Service Sorority
-Student Senate
-Alpha Lambda Delta
-Omicron Delta Kappa (officer)
-Who's Who


You get my point. You need to do two of the big three: Dance Marathon Exec or Morale, Student Senate, or Carolina Productions. You also need to be prepared to answer the question, "What do you feel that you have contributed to the USC community" because that's what wins you Who's Who, Outstanding Senior, Swanger, and Sullivan. Your GPA needs to be a 3.5, although you could probably get by with a 3.25 with a killer essay and LSAT score. You need to be in Honors College. If you're not, get in. If you never want to be there, keep your GPA above a 3.5. Alpha Lambda Delta's a given. ODK is for junior year, but you'd best be using your best political skills to get in. Of course, all of this depends on what school you're planning on going to. Not that people don't get in without doing these things, but these are the people that I know that got in.

Let me know if you need any more help. Politics are huge at USC, so be aware of that ahead of time to make sure you get into these orgs. If you want more specifics, PM me.

[unspokenone25]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kddani
[B]Doesn't sound too bad to me, but it may also be overkill and make you overanalyze stuff! The joy of being in the law is that you overanalyze everything to death that sometimes you miss the simple stuff.

This is definitely true of being in law school. I am in my last year at University of Houston Law Center. Being in law school definitely changes how you perceive life in general. Like Kddani says, you overanalyze everything. I have constantly been into arguments w/ my boyfriend over just the simple things.

Anywhoo...law school is a drag your first two years but after that hump it's pretty cool. You get used to rigors of school, the late nights, no sleep, constant stress (whether it be grades or trying to find a job), boring-ass classes w/ boring professors, the backstabbing section-mates, the tons of writing...and you roll with the punches.

Being a former Black Law Students Association Pres., who was very involved in admissions at my school, here is my advice:
1) If you can take a LSAT class (Princeton Review or Kaplan) take it
2) if you don't have the money to do it, get the books w/ CDs (and do the test online from the publishers' website)
3) order old LSAT books (if you do take the class and if you don't take the class)
4) Get a mentor--a lawyer, a law student, professor...someone!
5) WORK ON YOUR PERSONAL STATEMENT (Yes, your resume is important but trust me, you really need something else to distinguish yourself from the other hundreds of applications w/ similar GPAs and LSAT scores)

Any other questions, feel free to PM me.

Law school is do-able but you have to be committed and realistic.

[GeekyPenguin]

I really think LSAT classes are a waste of money unless you score below 150 on your first diagnostic.

[unspokenone25]

I agree but to each his own. I got into law school and didn't take a class. Some individuals might want the class as a security blanket.

[kddani]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I really think LSAT classes are a waste of money unless you score below 150 on your first diagnostic.

I agree, though maybe I might bump up that 150 to a 155.

Though each person knows themself the best. I knew that if i went through a few books, i'd be fine. My scores on the first practice tests were high enough to get into most of the schools I wanted.

Kaplan (and other) classes are a HUGE time commitment. It may very well end up in your GPA dropping because you were too busy doing Kaplan stuff.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by kddani
I agree, though maybe I might bump up that 150 to a 155.

Though each person knows themself the best. I knew that if i went through a few books, i'd be fine. My scores on the first practice tests were high enough to get into most of the schools I wanted.

Kaplan (and other) classes are a HUGE time commitment. It may very well end up in your GPA dropping because you were too busy doing Kaplan stuff.

I would say 155 too, except that a lot of people think 155 is a good enough score for where they want to be, so that's okay. I think the classes help people who are bad test takers, but if you are a decent test taker and are willing to commit a few hours a week to studying, you'll be fine.

[KSigkid]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I would say 155 too, except that a lot of people think 155 is a good enough score for where they want to be, so that's okay. I think the classes help people who are bad test takers, but if you are a decent test taker and are willing to commit a few hours a week to studying, you'll be fine.

That's the category where I fell. I'm a good test-taker, and it worked out better for me (and cheaper) to study on my own. I committed a certain number of hours each week to studying, took a few practice tests, and ended up with a score good enough for the schools I want to attend.

Really, you have to know yourself and your study habits, and whether the cost of Kaplan or something like that would pay off come application time.

[Coramoor]

I'm interested in how law school stacks up to engineering.

I have about 10 hours left to grad. with a B.S. in engineering, I've taken the lsats, and right now I'm kind of waiting to see what the Army does with me before I apply.

I have friends that are in law school that say they've put in more effort in one semester than the put in an entire year in undergrad....but they were like international studies, poli. sci., and economics.

I really have nothing to go by other than how my some of my brothers are doing and what they say. Like I said though....just how far can you trust someone with an easy degree to comment on the workload in law school.

[IvySpice]

I'm a former Kaplan LSAT instructor and graduate of a top-3 law school. I've been advising law school applicants professionally for six years.

My primary advice to someone at this stage of the game is to be realistic about what you need to do. Both law school admissions and the legal profession are brutally hierarchical. Your GPA/LSAT and where you went to undergrad will largely determine where you can go to law school; your law grades and where you went to law school will largely determine what jobs you can get. So the first step is to figure out what kind of lawyer you want to be and where (small firm in South Carolina? Prosecutor in Richmond?), and then work backwards to figure out what credentials you need to get those jobs. Will your GPA and LSAT get you the necessary credentials for the job you want? Figure that out BEFORE you decide to go to law school.

Whether law school is easy or difficult, and whether it is fun or miserable, depend completely on who you are, where you go, and what you're trying to achieve there. I had a blast in law school, but I went to a school where you don't have to worry about grades. As a rule of thumb, the less competitive it is to get into the law school, the more competitive it is once you're there. Outside of the very top tier, your law grades will matter. A LOT. That doesn't usually make for a pleasant lifestyle.

[kddani]

Engineers are usually pretty successful in law school. I think because you're already trained to be detail oriented. The undergrad engineering majors I know that were in law school all did quite well. Their biggest problem was more when it came to writing style. They were great at thinking analytically, but needed work on their writing. Writing can be improved quite easily, though.

Also, with an engineering/science background, you're a prime candidate to take the patent bar, which can lead to a higher income $$$

[G8Ralphaxi]

This is from a earlier post I wrote on another thread...

Almost every law school (at least every one I've heard about)manages their admissions process by dividing the applicants in 3 groups. Every decent law school gets many more applications than they have spots.

The division is based on a math formula derived from your LSAT and GPA. Different schools might place a little more weight on one factor or the other, but both numbers will be very important. The number the school gets from that factor will decide which group you belong to:

1. Admit (high GPA, high LSAT, would be in top % of incoming class)
2. Needs further consideration
3. Deny (low GPA and LSAT)

Group 1 will be admitted automatically, unless there is some kind of extremely major problem with the applicant - like a series of felony arrests, getting caught in a serious cheating violation, etc.

Group 3 will be denied automatically, unless there's some (very very rare!) reason to excuse the deficiency.

Only if you're in Group 2 will anyone read your application, essays, recommendation letters, etc.

What you need to do is research the schools where you're applying - most will release info about the GPA and LSAT scores for their most recent 1L class - usually give you info like averages, and top 25%/middle 50%/bottom 25%. You should be able to predict where you fall.

If you're not in the top 25% of the school's class, you need to show the admissions people that you are prepared for law school, you have thought carefully and intelligently about your choice to attend (i.e., you care about the law, it's not about being rich and famous), and you are an interesting person who will add something to the class.

What others have said already is right - you need quality, not quantity on your resume. It will always look better to be an officer in one club, and maybe manage a big project than list 42 different organizations and then just "..., Member" afterwards.

Regarding recommendation letters, I managed to get one that was so wonderfully perfect, I didn't even realize it until later. I had worked for the alumni association as a part time job for just over a year - just a student assistant, minimum wage deal. My boss was one of the people in charge of alumni fundraising. She wrote a letter saying that I was a super-devoted Gator, and if I stayed at UF for law school, I would be extremely likely to donate $$$ to the university later. (Turns out she was right - I just headed up my graduating class gift project!)

I would definitely recommend getting a job on campus, with whatever alumni association type group you have. You make great connections too.