two groups with the same name

[Interest2008]

Originally Posted by BlueNYC2

i understand back in the days when communication was more difficult, but today with the advent of the internet and other forms of communication, there should be no reason for groups to have more than one name. if you're gonna have a 3 letter org, there are 13824 possible letter arrangements. i know there are bout probably between 200 & 300 already taken up by Social, Honorary, Music, Service & Professional orgs, but you still got a whole lot left to choose from.

Look at that intelligent use of statistics. Talk about applyin' mathematics to real situations, ya digg?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Interest2008

Look at that intelligent use of statistics. Talk about applyin' mathematics to real situations, ya digg?

What?

[Interest2008]

How else would he discover that there are 13824 possible ways to rearrange 3 letters without applying basic statistical methods?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Interest2008

How else would he discover that there are 13824 possible ways to rearrange 3 letters without applying basic statistical methods?

Yeah so type that next time and leave "ya dig" out.

[Taualumna]

Isn't there another post like this somewhere on GC?

[Interest2008]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Yeah so type that next time and leave "ya dig" out.

Yes, ma'am.

[SAEalumnus]

SAE has an issue with a group in the Philippines sharing our name. That group was originally organized in the 1940s as a Society of Agricultural Engineering, but later changed their name to 'Sigma Alpha Epsilon.' They weren't recognized by their founding campus until 1966. At some point early on an actual member of Sigma Alpha Epsilon Fraternity visited the Philippines and came across this group and, thinking they were members, attempted to make contact. He realized quickly enough that it was a mere coincidence with respect to the name, and that they were not, in fact, members of our Fraternity.

For a very brief period about 20 years ago as best I can tell, some communication took place between their governing body and our executive director, including sending them some pledge manuals in the hopes they might lead to an expansion of our Fraternity abroad. They were unable to put together the standard chartering fee or otherwise obtain Colony status, nevermind status as an actual charterered chapter. So instead they began incorporating our trademarks, copyrights, and service marks into their own group, claiming them as their own, and attempting to make it appear as though they shared a common ancestry with the rest of our chapters. A review of any of their websites will show images that include or are clearly based upon our flag, our coat of arms, and/or the images of our Founders.

[DSTCHAOS]

I remember when someone from the Philipines group created a thread on here last year, I believe.

It confused me. I thought they were just a chapter in the Philipines.

[SAEalumnus]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I remember when someone from the Philipines group created a thread on here last year, I believe.

It confused me. I thought they were just a chapter in the Philipines.

Exactly. That's precisely what they're trying to convey: that they're in some manner an extension of our Fraternity. The fact is, they have never been formally associated with our Fraternity beyond being very briefly an 'interest group.' To me, what they're doing is analagous to expressing an interest in pledging, but not being able/willing to even start, much less complete the process, dropping out, and 'creating' their own 'SAE' using our protected marks. Then they wonder why those who hold SAE dear to their hearts would take offense to their actions.

They've attempted to justify their actions by relaying that they're recognized by their local government and educational authorities as a fraternity with this name, but they can't ever present a rational argument to justify why so many of their websites, t-shirts, flags, and other imagery are clearly stolen from our Fraternity. They've even gone as far as using terms of SAE-Philippines vs. SAE-USA, as though both are two halves of the same whole. Considering our Founding date predates their whole organization by a century, we are the original, the real, and the only SAE, not just SAE-USA. They squandered the opportunity they once had to become legitimate members of our Fraternity in favor of defining themselves as impostors simply because it was easier and less expensive.

They can assert their standing as an officially recognized organization in their country all they want. It's bad enough that they're using our name, but they'll continue to be considered impostors with respect to Sigma Alpha Epsilon Fraternity unless and until they cease and desist with all use or display of any and all of OUR protected marks by all of their chapters and members. To be explicitly clear, those include all of the following and any derivative works thereof [ref: United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO)]:

• Trademarked flag (Serial# 75538565, Reg.# 2346560)
• Trademarked coat of arms (Serial# 71670125, Reg.# 0617623)
• Trademarked name/letters (SAE) (Serial# 71589597, Reg.# 0538680)
• Trademarked name/letters (FA) (Serial# 71302055, Reg.# 0277162)
• Trademarked typed drawing - True Gentleman (Serial# 76330928, Reg.# 2674447)
• Trademarked typed drawing - Sigma Alpha Epsilon (Serial# 76198084, Reg.# 2665456)
• Trademarked pledge badge design (Serial# 74187138, Reg.# 1706605)
• Trademarked Active badge design (Serial# 71670126, Reg.# 0617624)
• Trademarked design - True Gentleman Initiative (Serial# 76330930)
• Trademarked design - crosses (Serial#76330929)
• Content taken from The Phoenix (our pledge manual) or from any of our other published literature.
• Imagery taken from any of our websites or publications including images of our Founders.

This means no banners, flags, website images, website backgrounds, text, advertisements, tshirts, or media of any form or reproduced in any manner which contain or are otherwise based upon any of the above material. Any such existing material must be taken down or discarded, and no future material may be made. Do this, and they will no longer be impostors, but merely a totally separate organization in another area of the world that by coincidence has the same name.

[NutBrnHair]

When I was an undergrad (back in the day!) I remember hearing of a local group at Furman Univ. (SC) that was called the Chios. We were told that Chi Omega never challenged their use of the name because eventually, it might be possible to have them as a part of Chi Omega when/if the campus decided to allow NPC groups.

In 1995, the Chios Society became the Epsilon Lambda Chapter of Chi Omega Fraternity.

[Leslie Anne]

Darn it! The SAE Philipines guy deleted his post before I could quote him.

At any rate....this is what I just found from a video on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMCsjg4pBu4)

"Their" flag:

and

SAE's official flag:


One of them wearing a t-shirt with "their" coat of arms:

Hmm, looks suspiciously like SAE's coa:


Seems they even stole your True Gentlemen slogan:

as well as your colors and "Phi Alpha."



A coincidence of having the same letters is one thing, but IMO this deserves some serious a**-kicking!

ETA: SAEalumnus, you just updated your post while I was typing. How on earth are they getting away with this? I noticed that none of these things are on their official website but they're using them just the same. Very sneaky. and smarmy

[DSTCHAOS]

That's beyond crazy.

[DSTCHAOS]

Now THIS is more like it *applause*: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JhXO...eature=related

The Philipines SAE videos (there's more than one) are ridiculous. The comments under them are even more ridiculous.

[SAEalumnus]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

Darn it! The SAE Philipines guy deleted his post before I could quote him.

ETA: SAEalumnus, you just updated your post while I was typing. How on earth are they getting away with this? I noticed that none of these things are on their official website but they're using them just the same. Very sneaky. and smarmy

Actually I deleted the post. What you've just found is exactly what I've been talking about.

[SAEalumnus]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

At any rate....this is what I just found from a video on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMCsjg4pBu4)

Notice they're stealing the 20th Century Fox clip and a Nickleback song in addition to all of our imagery. I wonder if Fox or Nickleback are receiving any royalties from that or if any permission was obtained?

ETA: I love how at the end of that video they have the balls to say "copyright 2007" and "all initiation rights reserved" after lifting material from three different owners.