Transwomen and rush.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by bevinpiphi

They wouldn't know, per se...we don't ask for birth certificates, so it's all down to disclosure...and I feel like that gets sticky. The qualification for memberships in many organizations is, "are you a woman?" and since trans women are women...

Loop back to the situation when a specific religion was a membership requirement? You can't ask in rush (or might get a lie during rush), but you can throw them out if it comes out in pledging/as a sister??

[carnation]

A private group can throw out anybody they want. They may not give the real reason why but I doubt that they would have to.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by naraht

Loop back to the situation when a specific religion was a membership requirement? You can't ask in rush (or might get a lie during rush), but you can throw them out if it comes out in pledging/as a sister??

If their rules prevent a PNm from being a member whatever it is the PNM may be/have done/have said, then of course they can deny the person membership.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Dumb question - how would they know? They'd have to either ask or surmise. Surmising could lead to all kinds of stereotypical reactions.

I ask this because I have an acquaintance with whom I've had several long discussions. To look at her, one would immediately think trans woman, but she has mentioned to me more than once hormonal issues she's had throughout her life. I certainly would not dream of asking.

Originally Posted by bevinpiphi

They wouldn't know, per se...we don't ask for birth certificates, so it's all down to disclosure...and I feel like that gets sticky. The qualification for memberships in many organizations is, "are you a woman?" and since trans women are women...

Speaking for Alpha Sigma Tau, our membership eligibility requirements currently read: "Membership in Alpha Sigma Tau is open to women and transgender persons who identify as women."

There are so many variations across organizations that there's really no way to say that a PNM would benefit from disclosing more information or disclosing less. Regardless, some chapter members are going to make their own assumptions and conclusions and base membership decisions based on those assumptions. That's just how it is sometimes.

To answer naraht's question, it really would come down to a question of what each national organization - and each chapter - is willing to accept. Membership selection is private, so we never really know why a PNM is selected or not.

Based on how you asked the question, I admittedly only thought about this in the sense of gender and religion (historically). But GPA is certainly a very good example of a similar situation where one org will bring a PNM through to the next round, and another won't.

All this being said, I would bet good money that all of our orgs currently have at least one transgender and one non-binary member, regardless of national policy.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Speaking for Alpha Sigma Tau, our membership eligibility requirements currently read: "Membership in Alpha Sigma Tau is open to women and transgender persons who identify as women."

There are so many variations across organizations that there's really no way to say that a PNM would benefit from disclosing more information or disclosing less. Regardless, some chapter members are going to make their own assumptions and conclusions and base membership decisions based on those assumptions. That's just how it is sometimes.

To answer naraht's question, it really would come down to a question of what each national organization - and each chapter - is willing to accept. Membership selection is private, so we never really know why a PNM is selected or not.

Based on how you asked the question, I admittedly only thought about this in the sense of gender and religion (historically). But GPA is certainly a very good example of a similar situation where one org will bring a PNM through to the next round, and another won't.

All this being said, I would bet good money that all of our orgs currently have at least one transgender and one non-binary member, regardless of national policy.

Thank you very much for your response. Oddly while I expect that while each NPC sorority has at least one transgender and one non-binary, I would *not* expect the same of the NIC. (At least one of the newer members of the NPC is sufficiently religious that I think it more likely that they don't)

[PKT4LIFE]

Originally Posted by naraht

Thank you very much for your response. Oddly while I expect that while each NPC sorority has at least one transgender and one non-binary, I would *not* expect the same of the NIC. (At least one of the newer members of the NPC is sufficiently religious that I think it more likely that they don't)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...and_sororities

"Delta Tau Delta, Tau Kappa Epsilon, Sigma Phi Epsilon, Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia, Phi Mu Delta, Pi Lambda Phi, and Delta Chi are explicitly inclusive of gay and transgender men".

[naraht]

Originally Posted by PKT4LIFE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...and_sororities

"Delta Tau Delta, Tau Kappa Epsilon, Sigma Phi Epsilon, Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia, Phi Mu Delta, Pi Lambda Phi, and Delta Chi are explicitly inclusive of gay and transgender men".

I know there are a number (perhaps even a majority) of NIC fraternities that would welcome them. However unlike the 1980s/1990s/200Xs where I believe that all members of the NIC would admit all men, I don't believe that that is true today.

[jbakajp]

Originally Posted by bevinpiphi

They wouldn't know, per se...we don't ask for birth certificates, so it's all down to disclosure...and I feel like that gets sticky. The qualification for memberships in many organizations is, "are you a woman?" and since trans women are women...

But are they? Not everyone agrees.

Some members of the KKG chapter at University of Wyoming are suing their national president and organization for "betray[ing] the central purpose and mission of Kappa Kappa Gamma by conflating the experience of being a woman with the experience of men engaging in behavior generally associated with women." according to Fox News:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/lawsui...cbo=v2-gXlIl0H

Who else was wondering when this was going to happen?

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by jbakajp

But are they? Not everyone agrees.

Some members of the KKG chapter at University of Wyoming are suing their national president and organization for "betray[ing] the central purpose and mission of Kappa Kappa Gamma by conflating the experience of being a woman with the experience of men engaging in behavior generally associated with women." according to Fox News:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/lawsui...cbo=v2-gXlIl0H

Who else was wondering when this was going to happen?

I came across this story this morning. Seems like there are more details here: https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/03...gender-member/

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by jbakajp

But are they? Not everyone agrees.

Some members of the KKG chapter at University of Wyoming are suing their national president and organization for "betray[ing] the central purpose and mission of Kappa Kappa Gamma by conflating the experience of being a woman with the experience of men engaging in behavior generally associated with women." according to Fox News:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/lawsui...cbo=v2-gXlIl0H

Who else was wondering when this was going to happen?

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I came across this story this morning. Seems like there are more details here: https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/03...gender-member/

Thank goodness a few persons have been paying close attention to their situation, and have the wherewithal to take steps to improve their best interests and satisfy their outcome.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by bevinpiphi

They wouldn't know, per se...we don't ask for birth certificates, so it's all down to disclosure...and I feel like that gets sticky. The qualification for memberships in many organizations is, "are you a woman?" and since trans women are women...

After reading the article with the Kappa lawsuit, I'd say an erection is definitely a sign that this person should not have been pledged in the first place. Add the 1.9 GPA, and I'm vey surprised that he even got a bid!

[carnation]

Originally Posted by honeychile

After reading the article with the Kappa lawsuit, I'd say an erection is definitely a sign that this person should not have been pledged in the first place. Add the 1.9 GPA, and I'm vey surprised that he even got a bid!

This whole thing is so gross.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by honeychile

After reading the article with the Kappa lawsuit, I'd say an erection is definitely a sign that this person should not have been pledged in the first place. Add the 1.9 GPA, and I'm vey surprised that he even got a bid!

One of the stories (perhaps more; I didn't read more) strongly indicated pressure from a national and/or alumnae group. Sadly, many of our collegians don't know how to say "no" to that kind of pressure, even if it's a person they wouldn't otherwise choose to pledge.

Without knowing other groups' policies, I do know Delta Gamma reserves new member selection for collegians. It's an honor and a privilege reserved for them, but in my (very limited) experience, it's not often stressed.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I came across this story this morning. Seems like there are more details here: https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/03...gender-member/

How does Kappa, or how do the offended Kappa women, prevent Artemis from writing articles/books about his experience and/or give interviews regarding same?

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by naraht

Thank you very much for your response. Oddly while I expect that while each NPC sorority has at least one transgender and one non-binary, I would *not* expect the same of the NIC. (At least one of the newer members of the NPC is sufficiently religious that I think it more likely that they don't)

the newest members of NPC have been in since the 1950s.