PNM advice: the importance of personal connections in recruitment

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

STOP THINKING ABOUT TIERS AND YOU'LL BE FINE.

I really want to use this as my siggy.

[AXOrushadvisor]

Originally Posted by LuvMyPNM

Thanks for your insight. I'm certain my PNM doesn't have heart or mind set on any particular group. And I get that each house has their own personality and ways of going about things. That's what rush is about -- to find those that are compatible. Good fit for both house and member.

At schools where there is a big recruitment, say 50% of freshman girls who rush and pledge, but the #'s of upperclassmen in those houses aren't as strong, meaning they initiate 120 freshman, yet graduate 70-80 each year, when do members stop being so active? What are some common reasons?

Thanks again

I find money to be the single biggest factor for women quitting. How they could not know the cost is mind boggling yet every year at least one New Member quits because of cost.

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

I find money to be the single biggest factor for women quitting. How they could not know the cost is mind boggling yet every year at least one New Member quits because of cost.

Way too many schools are not up front about cost, or are vague in their promotional/informational materials. I am all for mandatory full disclosure of costs, but that just doesn't happen everywhere. I think it leads to a "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" mentality.

[BraveMaroon]

To give you a different perspective on personal connections - they can work against you, too.

Scenario 1:

There was a house I really, really liked during rush - tent talk was that they never cut anyone, and then, BOOM, after round two, they cut me.

I was so surprised, especially because I knew several girls in the chapter -they had graduated two years ahead of me...with my sister. In fact, they had all been on Dance Team together.

And that's when I remembered that perhaps there had been a little friction on Dance Team their Senior Year with my sister and one of the girls from that sorority.

That may not have been the reason I got cut, but I'm betting it was.

I got over it pretty quickly.

Scenario 2:

The "Do You Know..." game.

I was so guilty of doing this, and it's such a bad idea, but I didn't realize it until I was on the sister side of Rush. This is when you meet someone and find out you have some type of vague connection - they grew up in Anytown, and so did a few people you went to camp with. You ask them, "Do you know Patty Personality? She's from Anytown."

This can go a number of ways - maybe she doesn't know Patty and that's that. Maybe she knows Patty and they're BFFs - great! Or maybe she knows Patty because Patty stole her boyfriend. Or maybe she used to torment "Fatty Patty" on the bus every day in Middle School.

It's so tempting to do because you're in a new place with new people and it feels so good to make a connection - the problem is, you have no idea what type of connection you're making.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

I find money to be the single biggest factor for women quitting. How they could not know the cost is mind boggling yet every year at least one New Member quits because of cost.

We usually get a couple that transfer or that say they are dropping because of costs. There is always one person that says they are dropping because they have a really difficult major. This 2nd is really odd because the officers they have to sit at tell they are withdrawing are usually pre-med.

The truth is usually a combination of factors that usually includes while they like service they don't like someone telling they have to do service or they like parties but they don't like someone telling them they should go to a particular party. They don't like being required to go to chapter every week but then they get upset because they feel disconnected from their pledge class (cause they don't go to chapter every week or they scheduled a class during chapter.)

The other thing that I think contributes to a drop off between the number that pledge and the number that graduate is that CPC recruits women by saying "its a great way to meet people!" and "Find a home away from home!" Once girls have established themselves on campus and have made their core group of friends they don't always necessarily see a need to continue. On a campus that doesn't have a house or where not many women live in, its even easier to look at that cost as being an additional expense.

In that case - they aren't seeing the big picture - lifelong opportunities and friendships, a lifeline or a connection wherever you may end up either for family or career reasons, because they are thinking about it in the immediate situation.

[AXOrushadvisor]

Originally Posted by HQWest

We usually get a couple that transfer or that say they are dropping because of costs. There is always one person that says they are dropping because they have a really difficult major. This 2nd is really odd because the officers they have to sit at tell they are withdrawing are usually pre-med.

The truth is usually a combination of factors that usually includes while they like service they don't like someone telling they have to do service or they like parties but they don't like someone telling them they should go to a particular party. They don't like being required to go to chapter every week but then they get upset because they feel disconnected from their pledge class (cause they don't go to chapter every week or they scheduled a class during chapter.)

The other thing that I think contributes to a drop off between the number that pledge and the number that graduate is that CPC recruits women by saying "its a great way to meet people!" and "Find a home away from home!" Once girls have established themselves on campus and have made their core group of friends they don't always necessarily see a need to continue. On a campus that doesn't have a house or where not many women live in, its even easier to look at that cost as being an additional expense.

In that case - they aren't seeing the big picture - lifelong opportunities and friendships, a lifeline or a connection wherever you may end up either for family or career reasons, because they are thinking about it in the immediate situation.

I totally agree with all of your points. Actually on our application forms they say are you aware that sorority membership cost between $500 and $900 and you have to answer the question to submit. Also, I have found that all sororities basically cost the same but some include every thing in their dues and some don't. My daughter had a friend that went through last year and one of the factors of her choosing her group was that it was cheaper. I know for a fact it isn't it is just the other group includes every thing even the pin in their new member fees.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by HQWest

We usually get a couple that transfer or that say they are dropping because of costs. There is always one person that says they are dropping because they have a really difficult major. This 2nd is really odd because the officers they have to sit at tell they are withdrawing are usually pre-med.

The truth is usually a combination of factors that usually includes while they like service they don't like someone telling they have to do service or they like parties but they don't like someone telling them they should go to a particular party. They don't like being required to go to chapter every week but then they get upset because they feel disconnected from their pledge class (cause they don't go to chapter every week or they scheduled a class during chapter.)

The other thing that I think contributes to a drop off between the number that pledge and the number that graduate is that CPC recruits women by saying "its a great way to meet people!" and "Find a home away from home!" Once girls have established themselves on campus and have made their core group of friends they don't always necessarily see a need to continue. On a campus that doesn't have a house or where not many women live in, its even easier to look at that cost as being an additional expense.

In that case - they aren't seeing the big picture - lifelong opportunities and friendships, a lifeline or a connection wherever you may end up either for family or career reasons, because they are thinking about it in the immediate situation.

Preach it Panhellenic Sister!

[Katmandu]

Truth about the connections for sure, but for those OOS moms and daughters reading, out of state girls without personal connections get bids every year, even at the most competitive campuses. Every year, members "fall in love" with pnms they just met and fight for them like tigresses. Every year, a few stellar women inexplicably fall through the cracks, although that is far more rare than the rushees and their moms like to think. (I got dropped from EVERYONE typically means "I don't like the 3 I have left...")

Honestly, at the highly competitive campuses with 1300+ overachieving rushees, pledge classes of 100 and chapters of 300+, I almost think you could draw names out of a hat, randomly assign them to sororities, and it wouldn't look much different than it does now.

[Ladybugmom]

This thread is so great!

[misscherrypie]

Make a good impression on those you meet and be yourself. I think that if any PNM took that advice, it would set them in good stead for recruitment AND in life.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by BraveMaroon

To give you a different perspective on personal connections - they can work against you, too.

Scenario 1:

There was a house I really, really liked during rush - tent talk was that they never cut anyone, and then, BOOM, after round two, they cut me.

I was so surprised, especially because I knew several girls in the chapter -they had graduated two years ahead of me...with my sister. In fact, they had all been on Dance Team together.

And that's when I remembered that perhaps there had been a little friction on Dance Team their Senior Year with my sister and one of the girls from that sorority.

That may not have been the reason I got cut, but I'm betting it was.

I got over it pretty quickly.

Scenario 2:

The "Do You Know..." game.

I was so guilty of doing this, and it's such a bad idea, but I didn't realize it until I was on the sister side of Rush. This is when you meet someone and find out you have some type of vague connection - they grew up in Anytown, and so did a few people you went to camp with. You ask them, "Do you know Patty Personality? She's from Anytown."

This can go a number of ways - maybe she doesn't know Patty and that's that. Maybe she knows Patty and they're BFFs - great! Or maybe she knows Patty because Patty stole her boyfriend. Or maybe she used to torment "Fatty Patty" on the bus every day in Middle School.

It's so tempting to do because you're in a new place with new people and it feels so good to make a connection - the problem is, you have no idea what type of connection you're making.

Right. The "Do you know?" game is not a "personal connection," it's name-dropping which is annoying.

Additional advice:

Be aware of those "red flag" negative connections you have going into recruitment. They can tank you faster than anything else can (with certain chapters), even you think it was "forever ago."

Let's take your Fatty Patty example. You called this girl Fatty Patty under your breath all through junior high. Fast forward to recruitment. Patty is now a member of Phi Beta Popular. You've got yourself a problem. Yes, it was middle school, but unless Patty is over it (if it was traumatic enough, she might not be), they're not really campaigning to bring you back.

Your associations are important. Your crew senior year was full of rude snotwitches? Girls from your HS in Phi Beta Popular might assume you behave just like your crew did (even if it's college now and you're "a whole new person.")

I mention HS because for a lot of PNMs, that's last year and it's very possible that those things follow you. And they might not even be TRUE, but when a chapter is working with limited invites/time, these sort of things might not work in your favor.

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

Way too many schools are not up front about cost, or are vague in their promotional/informational materials. I am all for mandatory full disclosure of costs, but that just doesn't happen everywhere. I think it leads to a "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" mentality.

Originally Posted by HQWest

We usually get a couple that transfer or that say they are dropping because of costs. There is always one person that says they are dropping because they have a really difficult major. This 2nd is really odd because the officers they have to sit at tell they are withdrawing are usually pre-med.

The truth is usually a combination of factors that usually includes while they like service they don't like someone telling they have to do service or they like parties but they don't like someone telling them they should go to a particular party. They don't like being required to go to chapter every week but then they get upset because they feel disconnected from their pledge class (cause they don't go to chapter every week or they scheduled a class during chapter.)

The other thing that I think contributes to a drop off between the number that pledge and the number that graduate is that CPC recruits women by saying "its a great way to meet people!" and "Find a home away from home!" Once girls have established themselves on campus and have made their core group of friends they don't always necessarily see a need to continue. On a campus that doesn't have a house or where not many women live in, its even easier to look at that cost as being an additional expense.

In that case - they aren't seeing the big picture - lifelong opportunities and friendships, a lifeline or a connection wherever you may end up either for family or career reasons, because they are thinking about it in the immediate situation.

Amen!

[KSUViolet06]

^^^Do we have a cost thread?? I think there is some good $ discussion to be had, but it tends to come out in pieces of other threads.

[angels&angles]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Right. The "Do you know?" game is not a "personal connection," it's name-dropping which is annoying.

Additional advice:

Be aware of those "red flag" negative connections you have going into recruitment. They can tank you faster than anything else can (with certain chapters), even you think it was "forever ago."

Let's take your Fatty Patty example. You called this girl Fatty Patty under your breath all through junior high. Fast forward to recruitment. Patty is now a member of Phi Beta Popular. You've got yourself a problem. Yes, it was middle school, but unless Patty is over it (if it was traumatic enough, she might not be), they're not really campaigning to bring you back.

Your associations are important. Your crew senior year was full of rude snotwitches? Girls from your HS in Phi Beta Popular might assume you behave just like your crew did (even if it's college now and you're "a whole new person.")

I mention HS because for a lot of PNMs, that's last year and it's very possible that those things follow you. And they might not even be TRUE, but when a chapter is working with limited invites/time, these sort of things might not work in your favor.

Okay, so what would you recommend a PNM do in these situations? How do you damage control? Bring it up? Hope no one remembers?

[KSUViolet06]

That's a tricky one. I would say that if you run into Patty during recruitment, be cordial and carry on a polite conversation the best you can. Chances are, when Patty saw your name on the party list for the day, she made up her mind as to whether she was still mad or if she was going to give you a chance. But she's not going to flat out tell you to kick rocks in the middle of recruitment, so you have to keep your game face on. So just err on the side of polite and hope Patty has decided to give you a shot.