Christian Fraternities

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Xplosive

Hazed for not confessing Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior? Wow....thats just as bad as early Christians being KILLED for not confessing that Jesus Christ was NOT Lord and Savior. I dont know what Christian GLO is doing that but that is totally not Christ-like. Although Wolfman, could you put the last paragraph in laymen terms, im trying to understand what you're saying...lol

Sorry. In the early church the greatest issue was regarding the inclusion of Gentiles as equals and not simply as Jewish converts (thus second class Jewish Christians), so that the church is the Jew-Gentile people of God in Christ. (Per Galatians,if we have one God, we have one people of God in Christ.) Paul's energy and effort went into establishing Jew-Gentile churches and the central issue he addresses in the aforementioned books revolves around giving a theological rationale and practical strategies for this in a Jewish and Gentile world with increasing sociopolitical tensions--which led to the Jewish revolt in 70A.D.--which fell along ethnic/religious/socioeconomic lines. For Paul,this was the central implication of the Gospel, as in Galatians and Ephesians, and the substructure of Romans; and figures very highly in the Corinthian Correspondance. Paul chose Timothy,a person of mixed Jewish-Gentile heritage to be his aide and a church planter;this was an intentional choice--a very controversial one for Jewish Christians in Palestine!--;namely Paul's "diversity program," but one Paul knew would be right for the spread of the Gospel of the kingdom in the eastern Mediterranean. But as history would have it, Paul's vision and work failed in the subsequent generations; just as many places experienced "white flight" when desegregation occurred, and many white conservative Christians left the public schools in the South to form private "Christian" schools & academies, there was "Jewish Christian" flight in the early church and the movement eventually became a Gentile phenomenon. So, this is the irony for me: I see this phenomenon replicated amongst the so-called "Christian" GLOs also.That's the point I was trying to make:To be authentically Christian is to be multicultural, if that's what the group is professing itself to be. That's a witness to the Lordship of Jesus Christ; that's what Paul would say.

[LouisaMay]

Very interesting! I've enjoyed reading your take on this. I've thought about the same thing often, not in terms of GLOs though. Rather, I wonder about the very clear racial divide that occurs in congregations across the country.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by LouisaMay

Very interesting! I've enjoyed reading your take on this. I've thought about the same thing often, not in terms of GLOs though. Rather, I wonder about the very clear racial divide that occurs in congregations across the country.

Check out this relatively new blog that seeks to engage this issue:
http://edwardg.wordpress.com/
Blessings!

[Xplosive]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Sorry. In the early church the greatest issue was regarding the inclusion of Gentiles as equals and not simply as Jewish converts (thus second class Jewish Christians), so that the church is the Jew-Gentile people of God in Christ. (Per Galatians,if we have one God, we have one people of God in Christ.) Paul's energy and effort went into establishing Jew-Gentile churches and the central issue he addresses in the aforementioned books revolves around giving a theological rationale and practical strategies for this in a Jewish and Gentile world with increasing sociopolitical tensions--which led to the Jewish revolt in 70A.D.--which fell along ethnic/religious/socioeconomic lines. For Paul,this was the central implication of the Gospel, as in Galatians and Ephesians, and the substructure of Romans; and figures very highly in the Corinthian Correspondance. Paul chose Timothy,a person of mixed Jewish-Gentile heritage to be his aide and a church planter;this was an intentional choice--a very controversial one for Jewish Christians in Palestine!--;namely Paul's "diversity program," but one Paul knew would be right for the spread of the Gospel of the kingdom in the eastern Mediterranean. But as history would have it, Paul's vision and work failed in the subsequent generations; just as many places experienced "white flight" when desegregation occurred, and many white conservative Christians left the public schools in the South to form private "Christian" schools & academies, there was "Jewish Christian" flight in the early church and the movement eventually became a Gentile phenomenon. So, this is the irony for me: I see this phenomenon replicated amongst the so-called "Christian" GLOs also.That's the point I was trying to make:To be authentically Christian is to be multicultural, if that's what the group is professing itself to be. That's a witness to the Lordship of Jesus Christ; that's what Paul would say.

You know what, I agree...I almost got offended but when I read over it again, I understood what you meant. To be authentically Christian IS to be multicultural but some orgs don't see this. Which so-called "Christian" GLOs do you see that phenomenon with?

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Xplosive

You know what, I agree...I almost got offended but when I read over it again, I understood what you meant. To be authentically Christian IS to be multicultural but some orgs don't see this. Which so-called "Christian" GLOs do you see that phenomenon with?

Fundamentally, this was a "global" statement. My issue is that most of these groups are following the same pattern as the general GLOs. If one professes something, then it becomes an issue of the follwing question:Is this really the case? Will Christian GLOs allow themselves to be judged in the same way that they are positioning themselves over against other groups as representing Jesus,the Messiah,the Lord of all? He is the one who said: "Not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but only those who do the will of my Father."The history of Christianity in America is replete with these type of incongruities between confession and praxis (act) in this area,and others. It should lead to more self-reflection and humility for those who confess the name of Jesus, Christian GLOs included. Just food for thought.

[Xplosive]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Fundamentally, this was a "global" statement. My issue is that most of these groups are following the same pattern as the general GLOs. IF one professes something, then becomes an issue of is this really the case? Will Christian GLOs allow themselves to be judged in the same way that they are positioning themselves over against other groups as representing Jesus,the Messiah,the Lord of all? He is the one who said: "Not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but only those who do the will of my Father."The history of Christianity in America is replete with these type of incongruities between confession and praxis (act) in this area,and others. It should lead to more self-reflection and humility for those who confess the name of Jesus, Christian GLOs included. Just food for thought.

food is duly noted...

[CUPrez]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

It's interesting because "Christian" Greeks, from the listing we have so far,seem to mirror general Greek groups in terms of their breakdown along racial/ethnic lines.

I don't know who posted this list, but to clarify. Delta Psi Epsilon works hard to be multicultural. The racial/ethnic division is not a function of our organization, but a function of our society.

People tend to flock to those with whom they feel the most comfortable. For this same reason, all the black kids sit together in the cafeteria at school.

As national president of Delta Psi Epsilon, I try so hard to reach out to women of various cultures, denominations and ethnicities. We want our organization to represent the body of Christ which includes ALL of us. However, these efforts are sometimes not reciprocated because of the barriers and prejudices that people have. It's unfortunate, but true.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by CUPrez

I don't know who posted this list, but to clarify. Delta Psi Epsilon works hard to be multicultural. The racial/ethnic division is not a function of our organization, but a function of our society.

People tend to flock to those with whom they feel the most comfortable. For this same reason, all the black kids sit together in the cafeteria at school.

As national president of Delta Psi Epsilon, I try so hard to reach out to women of various cultures, denominations and ethnicities. We want our organization to represent the body of Christ which includes ALL of us. However, these efforts are sometimes not reciprocated because of the barriers and prejudices that people have. It's unfortunate, but true.

I commend you for having the vision and making the effort to be Christian--that's what Paul attempted to do.

[ProPhetic1]

I agree with CU Prez. As National President for Gamma Psi Lambda Christian Fellowship we try to break the mold. We do have an ALl white chapter in our organization. But as CU Prez stated we tend to flock to what we are most comfortable with.

[lambdalady]

Before I became a member of a christian sorority I was a civil rights activist at a prodominently white school. What I have noticed over the years is not that groups aren't willing to integrate, but its hard to get individuals to integrate.
I beleive that all of the christian orgs. don't intend to be racially divided and the ones I have seen do try to reach out to ALL cultures. But in the end individuals seem to be choosing orgs that they feel most comfortable in.
Its not a spiritual thing it's a historical thing. Historically people of the same race have related better to those of the same race. So human nature is to go where they "look" like they will fit in the best. And because of culture and customs that is usually the case.

I believe as history evolves the problem will one day correct itself. For now, orgs keep reaching and expanding the kingdom (to whomever where ever regardless of race.)

God Bless.

Alpha Lambda Omega Christian Sorority, Inc.
Founded 1990
www.alocs.org
Giving back to Jesus what he gave to us...Our lives!

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by lambdalady

Before I became a member of a christian sorority I was a civil rights activist at a prodominently white school. What I have noticed over the years is not that groups aren't willing to integrate, but its hard to get individuals to integrate.
I beleive that all of the christian orgs. don't intend to be racially divided and the ones I have seen do try to reach out to ALL cultures. But in the end individuals seem to be choosing orgs that they feel most comfortable in.
Its not a spiritual thing it's a historical thing. Historically people of the same race have related better to those of the same race. So human nature is to go where they "look" like they will fit in the best. And because of culture and customs that is usually the case.

I believe as history evolves the problem will one day correct itself. For now, orgs keep reaching and expanding the kingdom (to whomever where ever regardless of race.)

God Bless.

Alpha Lambda Omega Christian Sorority, Inc.
Founded 1990
www.alocs.org
Giving back to Jesus what he gave to us...Our lives!

Lambdalady-
I understand what you are saying but dundamentally think it's wrongheaded theologically. IF one really understood what Paul was trying to do (ie, what he was called to do) one realizes that one cannot separate the "spiritual" from the "historical." This is not Christian. Nor is it human nature:human being weren't created to sin. Sin is unnatural. This is not a value neutral phenomenon. White supremicist thinking and the interpersonal and institutional outworkings are the result of an intentional program of propaganda, historically speaking. We've accepted the lies so much that it warpes our perception of reality. It effects us all in some ways, but for many the Enemy has used this to blind the hearts of human beings in a spiritual stronghold which,according to Jewish and NT understandings, the spiritual and institutional are two sides of one coin. Note how small children are not prejudiced. They are socialized into this behaviour. It's not "natural." Christians have to get to the point where they have to stop making excuses and repent, just like they ask others to do. I say this as one who at various times of my life has been called into fellowship in church contexts in which I was one of a few or the only African American. I speak from experience.

[lambdalady]

Wolfman, there is no sin in joining a christian orgnization. Repent from what? You sound as confused as the message you just sent. Please don't take offense to that, im just trying to make sense of your thinking.
The sin that you are trying to get at in your message would be rejecting others based on how they look. No one here is doing that. You are assuming that just because one person joins a group that is prodominently one race that they are automatically rejecting people of another race. But that is not it. People join organizations for a number of reasons. You can still be in an organization that is prodominently one race and reach out to others. Like your trying to say "christianity is color blind right?" So why are you putting so much emphisis on race in certain organizations?
And the last time I checked your fraternity was still prodominently black with "christian principles" and I use that term lightly.
But I do have a question for you. Do you not feel convicted about the things that go on in your fraternity that need repentence?

[lambdalady]

We have brothers Gamma Phi Delta Christian Fraternity, Inc. www.gphid1988.org

Alpha Lambda Omega Christian Sorority, Inc.
Founded 1990
www.alocs.org
Giving back to Jesus what he gave to us...Our lives!

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by lambdalady

Wolfman, there is no sin in joining a christian orgnization. Repent from what? You sound as confused as the message you just sent. Please don't take offense to that, im just trying to make sense of your thinking.
The sin that you are trying to get at in your message would be rejecting others based on how they look. No one here is doing that. You are assuming that just because one person joins a group that is prodominently one race that they are automatically rejecting people of another race. But that is not it. People join organizations for a number of reasons. You can still be in an organization that is prodominently one race and reach out to others. Like your trying to say "christianity is color blind right?" So why are you putting so much emphisis on race in certain organizations?
And the last time I checked your fraternity was still prodominently black with "christian principles" and I use that term lightly.
But I do have a question for you. Do you not feel convicted about the things that go on in your fraternity that need repentence?

Read carefully: I was responding to one thing you said.It was meant to underscore the point about what constitutes Christianity--it's more than nomenclature, it's a serious theological issue that even Christians don't address properly. We, Christian and non-Christian, alike live in a fallen world;everything we do is sullied in some way. We all sin;all our institutions,Christian and non-Christian,are corrupted in some way.My point is this:if one says one is a Christian or one proclaims that a particular institution is,then it should mean that one should be sure of what one is saying.The issue of race/ethnicity and religion was THE issue that was a dividing line in terms of what was the true gospel in earliest Christianity. It was the earliest controversy in the church, the one which caused the Apostle Paul to start his own mission outside of the Jerusalem/Antioch ambit.Christians should be the leaders in "diversity" if they understood what the Pauline gospel is about.It's not simply one thing among others, a historical thing, or the "natural" way people behave..Paul spent his all his energy traveling around the eastern Mediterranean to found and build Jew-Gentile churches of God as a sign of the eschatological fulfillment of advent of the age to come when God would reconcile all in his Messiah,Jesus.Paul failed but what he taught and lived was the truth. To say one is a Christian means that one is held to a higher standard than others,esp. if one is proclaiming to be a light to others.Invariably, we,Christians,show our feet of clay,too.This should lead to a type of Christian humility and empathy with all people.
I don't think--I know, based on sound biblical theology and experience--that Christians aren't inherently better than anybody else.It's by God's grace that we grow and are transformed as we walk in this way of life.It doesn't really bother me theologically that many brothers in my Fraternity don't really live up to the profound Christian principles it was founded upon.I've seen Christians who are liars,cheats,racists,violent bullies,greedy scoundrels, adulterers,fornicators in churches.In fact, some of the most profound Scripture is the Psalms, of which many were written by (or ascribed to) David, a murderer,adulterer, liar,bloody warrior,etc. And the greatest leader of God's people was a murderer (Moses).I have to repent everyday myself so I understand this. In my Fraternity, we have these discussions all the time--sometimes very charged! There's a bit of a difference if one is founding Greek orgs as Christian over against other organizations,many of whom were founded by Christians or have a strong Christian heritage or ethos. I can understand the rationale if there are some things that most Greek orga do that they don't consider "Christian" or if they have a specific evangelistic purpose. My provocative argument is this:if one is doing this on theological grounds, then why not go all the way and conform to the vision of the Gospel.Like I said,none of us are what we should be. We ask for forgiveness and struggle to do and be better. It's okay to admit that we may not be all that we should be--whether for individuals or for oganizations and institutions.That's better than watering down the Gospel or denying it by rationalizing our sub-Christian praxis.