Would you support raising the minimum GPA for freshman PNMs?

[DoeofDenmark]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

This. I call shenanigans. I know girls with a 3.6 (and then some) out of high school who have not been admitted. With fall recruitment for UT, we're not talking about their college GPA, we're talking about their HS GPA, and I just don't buy that someone was admitted with a 1.9. It's gotten so impossible to get in these days.

For those who don't know the situation...read this blog post: https://www.theparentsdean.com/blog-...GGp38mnllcauAI

Adding - just saw the part about 2nd year. Even with that being a separate quota...I'm not convinced.

For a sophomore to be given a bid when she has legacy, a roster of activities, a pretty face, popular with the sisters, was a debutante, and her family gives money to the school and to the sorority. It is not unheard of at all, but if you would like to call doubt onto me, feel free.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

Adding - just saw the part about 2nd year. Even with that being a separate quota...I'm not convinced.

It happens...esp those with big Greek systems where there is a lot of $$$$ and/or influence(like the daughter of a sitting AAA national council member, etc.).....

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by Titchou

It happens...esp those with big Greek systems where there is a lot of $$$$ and/or influence(like the daughter of a sitting AAA national council member, etc.).....

Exactly.

Thank you.

I have first hand personal knowledge of at least one situation which is pretty much what you just described, Titchou. Order came from HQ to extend a bid. Not saying which chapter or where. Again, we're dancing around MS territory. That's all I got.

[APhi2KD]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

Adding - just saw the part about 2nd year. Even with that being a separate quota...I'm not convinced.

Really? In the land of PKT, glitter and dance parties, your summer camp determining your placement, etc?
Stranger things, I’m sure.

[33girl]

If anything, I think that the state of affairs re that blog post would increase things like OP girl’s situation happening.

[navane]

Originally Posted by DoeofDenmark

For a sophomore to be given a bid when she has legacy, a roster of activities, a pretty face, popular with the sisters, was a debutante, and her family gives money to the school and to the sorority. It is not unheard of at all, but if you would like to call doubt onto me, feel free.

It's that sorority's right to choose their own new members. If they felt that family prestige, looks and whatever else were going to add just as much, if not more, value to the chapter than a higher GPA, then so be it. It's their chapter GPA they're going to tank by bidding the 1.9 GPA girl. If they have 200 members, the one bad GPA might have little to no overall poor effect anyway.

And it may be a one-off situation. Maybe the chapter doesn't routinely do this and we're blowing the one-time exception out of proportion. We can play what-if all day. "What if" a PNM is a highly qualified and a genuinely sweet and outstanding girl, but sustained a terrible family tragedy her first semester which negatively affected her GPA? Does she not possibly deserve to receive an exception? Even if a chapter wants to bid random, low-achievers all day long, they can. So, no, I don't support raising the GPA minimums as it's something of an artificial fix if a chapter is still allowed to override the policy. All we can do is continue to impress upon our members the importance of maintaining the highest of ideals when approaching our membership selection.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by 33girl

That’s high school GPA.

Still, a 3.8 on a 4.0 scale? That still would knock out a majority of potential pledges at almost any school (maybe not Yale or MIT)

[33girl]

Originally Posted by naraht

Still, a 3.8 on a 4.0 scale? That still would knock out a majority of potential pledges at almost any school (maybe not Yale or MIT)

With AP classes being weighted differently, many incoming students have higher than a 4.0.

She also said that’s for every Greek org on campus, not just NPC sororities.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by 33girl

With AP classes being weighted differently, many incoming students have higher than a 4.0.

She also said that’s for every Greek org on campus, not just NPC sororities.

Agreed and that really messes things up. Within my local area, there are school systems where a B in AP Calculus counts as 4.0, others where it counts as a 3.75 and some where it counts as a 3.0 (And then there are IB programs). Sometimes I wonder if the colleges should recalculated it for consistency.

OK, I wonder what GLOs have the 3.8 then. None of the honoraries are likely to pay attention to HS GPA's at all...

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by DoeofDenmark

For a sophomore to be given a bid when she has legacy, a roster of activities, a pretty face, popular with the sisters, was a debutante, and her family gives money to the school and to the sorority. It is not unheard of at all, but if you would like to call doubt onto me, feel free.

Apologies...wasn't meaning to call doubt onto you at all! I'm just shocked actually because of how stressful the whole academic situation is at UT. How is the person in question able to go through recruitment when she doesn't meet the panhellenic minimum GPA to do so? I just am surprised...that's all, I guess.

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If anything, I think that the state of affairs re that blog post would increase things like OP girl’s situation happening.

Care to elaborate? I'm not being snarky, honestly curious. I'm sitting watching girls with 3.7+ (unweighted) coming out of high school that can't get in to save their lives, but getting into more "prestigious" private schools...it's really bizarre particularly this year.

Originally Posted by APhi2KD

Really? In the land of PKT, glitter and dance parties, your summer camp determining your placement, etc?
Stranger things, I’m sure.

I'm just surprised that Panhellenic let her go through with a GPA less than their minimum?

Originally Posted by navane

It's that sorority's right to choose their own new members. If they felt that family prestige, looks and whatever else were going to add just as much, if not more, value to the chapter than a higher GPA, then so be it. It's their chapter GPA they're going to tank by bidding the 1.9 GPA girl. If they have 200 members, the one bad GPA might have little to no overall poor effect anyway.

And it may be a one-off situation. Maybe the chapter doesn't routinely do this and we're blowing the one-time exception out of proportion. We can play what-if all day. "What if" a PNM is a highly qualified and a genuinely sweet and outstanding girl, but sustained a terrible family tragedy her first semester which negatively affected her GPA? Does she not possibly deserve to receive an exception? Even if a chapter wants to bid random, low-achievers all day long, they can. So, no, I don't support raising the GPA minimums as it's something of an artificial fix if a chapter is still allowed to override the policy. All we can do is continue to impress upon our members the importance of maintaining the highest of ideals when approaching our membership selection.

I'm not questioning the chapter...it's their business for sure (and as you said, likely a one-off) but it's the UT panhellenic I'm more surprised about?

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

I'm just surprised that Panhellenic let her go through with a GPA less than their minimum?

Whoa!! College Panhellenic may NOT establish a minimum GPA for PNMs to participate in rush, per the MOI.

" College Panhellenics that wish to highlight the importance of academics by communicating GPA standards for women participating in recruitment shall do so through educating potential new members, not through setting a minimum GPA. "

[33girl]

Not only that, she may not have gone through formal rush at all. There’s nothing that says a sorority can only choose their pledges from women participating in formal rush.

Originally Posted by shirley1929

Care to elaborate? I'm not being snarky, honestly curious. I'm sitting watching girls with 3.7+ (unweighted) coming out of high school that can't get in to save their lives, but getting into more "prestigious" private schools...it's really bizarre particularly this year.

This is pure speculation, and is going to be really politically incorrect.

“We may have had to endure the indignity of Li’l Poundcake not getting admitted directly onto main campus while OTHERS did, but boy howdy, we can make it certain that she gets into XYZ.”

Again, all speculation on my part.

[DistantXOcousin]

Originally Posted by DoeofDenmark

For a sophomore to be given a bid when she has legacy, a roster of activities, a pretty face, popular with the sisters, was a debutante, and her family gives money to the school and to the sorority. It is not unheard of at all, but if you would like to call doubt onto me, feel free.

I speak for my own experiences when I say that I’ve seen this all the time at our larger chapters with more popularity (Arkansas, Alabama, and Texas, for example). A bit of money, some prestige, legacy, and the potential to be great wipe away all worries of GPA. It happens today and it happened back in the Stone Age when I was a PNM. The simple fact of the matter is that sororities depend on their alumnae groups and angering an alumna by not letting in her legacy is something that’s worried about. It’s sad but it’s the way of sororities these days. Without support, some chapters don’t thrive, letting in a legacy and keeping everyone happy is the easiest route, it may not be the right one but it’s definitely done.

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by thetalady

Whoa!! College Panhellenic may NOT establish a minimum GPA for PNMs to participate in rush, per the MOI.

" College Panhellenics that wish to highlight the importance of academics by communicating GPA standards for women participating in recruitment shall do so through educating potential new members, not through setting a minimum GPA. "

My bad. All the "super highly suggested above 2.5 stuff" gets twisted sometimes in conversations.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Not only that, she may not have gone through formal rush at all. There’s nothing that says a sorority can only choose their pledges from women participating in formal rush.

This is pure speculation, and is going to be really politically incorrect.

“We may have had to endure the indignity of Li’l Poundcake not getting admitted directly onto main campus while OTHERS did, but boy howdy, we can make it certain that she gets into XYZ.”

Again, all speculation on my part.

Absolutely makes sense.

From my standpoint, most (all?) of the women I see that get CAPed (being allowed to go to another UT school and transfer in later) elect NOT to do that, and instead go to Austin Community College, live in the private dorms with their friends and then transfer into UT Austin as a 2nd semester freshman or 1st semester sophomore. This was an option that was less "socially acceptable" (for lack of a better phrase?) as recently as 4-5 years ago, but because of the situation there has become more "normal".

Thus the 1.9 makes me skeptical of transferring in...whether it be from another UT school or ACC - they still have to be admitted to UT Austin, and I know several who were not admitted as transfers. Obviously there's exceptions to every rule and the exception in question may have had two semesters in UT (spring freshman and summer freshman) to tank her GPA.

Originally Posted by DistantXOcousin

I speak for my own experiences when I say that I’ve seen this all the time at our larger chapters with more popularity (Arkansas, Alabama, and Texas, for example). A bit of money, some prestige, legacy, and the potential to be great wipe away all worries of GPA. It happens today and it happened back in the Stone Age when I was a PNM. The simple fact of the matter is that sororities depend on their alumnae groups and angering an alumna by not letting in her legacy is something that’s worried about. It’s sad but it’s the way of sororities these days. Without support, some chapters don’t thrive, letting in a legacy and keeping everyone happy is the easiest route, it may not be the right one but it’s definitely done.

Again, totally makes sense.

Thanks for everyone's input. This is a personally interesting conversation to me (obviously!) and I didn't mean to stir the pot at all and have people pearl-clutching (ha!) over my comments. I know enough about the situation there (enough to be dangerous anyway!), so I'm invested.