Sexism or Pack of Professionalism?

[Nanners52674]

Originally Posted by FL_grad_student

And if you're offered a last minute interview you can't make it to, offer to meet at a different time to ensure you're not late. If it's a new area, leave early - way early. Better to sit in your car waiting for 20 minutes than be late.

My daddy always said the "if you're early you're on time, if you're on time you're late, if you're late don't bother showing up." It's served me well. Plus with something stressful like an interview it's always nice to have time to collect yourself once you get to your destination. Bathroom, check your clothes etc...

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

There's also a class element to this. I don't know about this specific situation, but in general, students who are first-generation college attendees don't have the level of guidance some of us did. Of course, career centers and the like have resources, but it's not the same as coming from a white-collar family.

Oh, hellz no.

I was a first gen college student too, as were many of my classmates, and we all knew that you didn't go to an interview in a jersey knit dress with a sloppy sweater over it - even if it was for a job where you'd be wearing jeans every day. Don't college women read Glamour anymore? They always talked about this stuff.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Oh, hellz no.

I was a first gen college student too, as were many of my classmates, and we all knew that you didn't go to an interview in a jersey knit dress with a sloppy sweater over it - even if it was for a job where you'd be wearing jeans every day. Don't college women read Glamour anymore? They always talked about this stuff.

EXACTLY. There's little to no class element to this, only an entitled special snowflake element. First-generation college students weren't raised in a barn--and they're not always working class or poor, either.

Also, can we please stop acting like Millenials are the source of all problems in this world? It's tired, trite, and incorrect. The issue is generational--the same complaints Boomers are making about Millenials, the Greatest Generation was making about Baby Boomers. People in their early 20s tend to be narcissistic. The Millenials aren't the first, nor are they the last, narcissistic group of adolescents and young adults.

One major thing that has changed is the level of formality expected in some job fields, even at the interview process. My partner interviewed for a position at one of the nation's top companies--a place that's notoriously laid-back and informal. He was told specifically by the company's recruiter NOT to wear a suit and tie. That's rare, however, and reflects the fact that this company is in a very laid-back area of the country, and tends to hire people with 20 years of experience, and not just kids out of college. Even if this was the case, she seriously misfired. Hopefully she's learned her lesson, fit of pique aside.

ETA: I read this pretty quickly and overlooked the fact that she went to Oberlin. This all makes sense now.

[Sciencewoman]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Also, can we please stop acting like Millenials are the source of all problems in this world? It's tired, trite, and incorrect. The issue is generational--the same complaints Boomers are making about Millenials, the Greatest Generation was making about Baby Boomers. People in their early 20s tend to be narcissistic. The Millenials aren't the first, nor are they the last, narcissistic group of adolescents and young adults

No generation is good or bad, but there are particular characteristics. One of the characteristics noted in Millenials is a confidence that they can change the world. Their parents tended to have children later, hovered over them more, and protected them from failure. I've participated in several "working with Milennials" workshops, for professors and one sponsored by Gamma Phi, and some of her comments struck me as spot-on stereotypical of how Millenials have been characterized by those who study generational commonalities. What she views as confidence, we view as "attitude."

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Sciencewoman

No generation is good or bad, but there are particular characteristics. One of the characteristics noted in Millenials is a confidence that they can change the world. Their parents tended to have children later, hovered over them more, and protected them from failure. I've participated in several "working with Milennials" workshops, for professors and one sponsored by Gamma Phi, and some of her comments struck me as spot-on stereotypical of how Millenials have been characterized by those who study generational commonalities. What she views as confidence, we view as "attitude."

Yes, you're correct that there are particular characteristics of today's generation of adolescents and young adults. I believe David Brooks calls it "concerted cultivation," where a lot of energy is spent on children by adults. It will pose challenges as they continue to work with older people--but nothing so earth-shattering as the articles, seminars, and workshops that make money off this so-called divide would have you believe.

So in other words--yes, there is a generation gap. But this young woman is just an entitled brat who went to a college where everyone is a special snowflake!

[sugar and spice]

Programming is a weird field because the typical interview dress code is assumed to be business casual or even casual. Suits aren't really done in most parts of the field, even for interviews. It isn't uncommon to find places who'll cut a candidate for dressing too formally because they assume it means she'll be too straight-laced to work for them. (Which is hella stupid, but whatever.) So yeah, for a normal job interview, this outfit would have been far too casual—in tech . . . eh. It depends on the company. I know of plenty of companies where that would have been fine as an interview outfit (and others where it wouldn't). She gambled and lost. It happens.

Cutting an otherwise stellar candidate because they had a run in their stockings is idiotic—I guess maybe if it was a male interviewer/an all-male office, they might not know that if you put them on in the morning you've got a 50/50 chance of having a run in them by the end of the day? But I suspect that her lateness was the biggest issue—either she didn't actually warn them that she was going to be late, that message was not noted/passed on from whomever she did tell, or when she told them that she was going to be “a few minutes” late, they assumed 5, not 20.

[tcsparky]

Originally Posted by sugar and spice

Or when she told them that she was going to be “a few minutes” late, they assumed 5, not 20.

This.

If they had allotted an hour for her interview, and lined up another one for five, then she missed half of the interview time. This could have made them feel that they had wasted the hour, because if they had it down to a routine that took an hour, they had to cut parts of it due to her lateness, and therefore would not have been able to consider her due to lack of information from the interview.

I work with teachers, and our beginning teachers, fresh out of university, often have the same issues with clothing and timelines. I try to gently make "suggestions" but not criticize their clothing, because it's such as personal issue. The wild wigs, strange hair colors and odd-fitting clothing can make them look less than professional, but they see it as " showing their personality." By the end of year three, they tend to be blending more with the rest of the staff.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by sugar and spice

Programming is a weird field because the typical interview dress code is assumed to be business casual or even casual. Suits aren't really done in most parts of the field, even for interviews. It isn't uncommon to find places who'll cut a candidate for dressing too formally because they assume it means she'll be too straight-laced to work for them. (Which is hella stupid, but whatever.) So yeah, for a normal job interview, this outfit would have been far too casual—in tech . . . eh. It depends on the company. I know of plenty of companies where that would have been fine as an interview outfit (and others where it wouldn't). She gambled and lost. It happens.

Cutting an otherwise stellar candidate because they had a run in their stockings is idiotic—I guess maybe if it was a male interviewer/an all-male office, they might not know that if you put them on in the morning you've got a 50/50 chance of having a run in them by the end of the day? But I suspect that her lateness was the biggest issue—either she didn't actually warn them that she was going to be late, that message was not noted/passed on from whomever she did tell, or when she told them that she was going to be “a few minutes” late, they assumed 5, not 20.

Yeah, she totally gambled. When my partner interviewed at the company he's at now, which is in the tech field, the recruiter was very clear NOT TO WEAR A SUIT AND TIE to this interview (that was one of the companies where someone wearing that would be considered a "bad fit"). If this was one of those jobs, then the recruiter may have told her. That said, her outfit was kind of eh for architecture and design, too. If someone came dressed like how she was, I wouldn't count it against her.

What I WOULD hold against her, however, was being late. And that's what the issue more than likely was. She learned a painful lesson--made more painful by the fact that when you Google her, this is what will come up.

[PSKsilver]

You would hope she would learn from this, but....

http://oberlinreview.org/8024/opinio...onal/#comments

Nope.

Listen here miss entitled, t-shirts aren't interview appropriate. Bright colors aren't interview appropriate. Heavy makeup isn't interview appropriate.Being late...oh, you best believe that isn't appropriate.

"They would have hired me based on my personality" bull. Her Facebook rant and ability to just ignore people who disagree tell me otherwise. I hope that these "potential employers" hire her for her ability and not because of this fantasy fight against sexism.