What is Kappa Kappa Psi?

[Sticky]

in response to co'ed chapters.

I am a female brother of KKPsi , the Iota Kappa chapter. It is true that Boise State does not have a TBS chapter, but if we did... I personally would still be a brother of KKPsi. One of few distinguishable differences between the two organizaitons is that Tau Beta Sigma "promotes women in the band" versus Kappa Kappa Psi which "promotes members of the band" this isn't any sort of crack on TBS and the written language doesn't effect their ability to serve in ANY manner. I am just a stickler for words and it is my political take to be against many things categorized as womens right's.

TBS and KKPsi are very very closely related. In fact the Alpha chapter of each are located at the same school. THere is a very interesting story behind the formation of TBS, but to sum it up, KKPsi was not opposed to being a co'ed frat at any point to my knowledge. Originally there wasn't an alternative for women.

[psi_chotic02]

my opinion is that if the founding fathers wanted to send a clear message about women being in the frat......they would've had at least one women founder (I mean, i know there had to be at least ONE female member in the band).....THEY wouldn't call themselves fathers.........WE wouldn't be called brothers.......and THIS wouldn't be a brotherhood!!!

Now that's my 2 cents.....

Stephen I.
Kappa Kappa Psi/Epsilon Theta
Fall 2K2 #1
"Psi-chotic" Double Psi-ded

[PandaOnProzac]

At the same time you gotta think about the change over time. Progression doesn't stop and it can only get slowed down. It was inevitable that women would be allowed into the fraternity.

Personally I've played what if games about the founding fathers. Back in the day what would have gone through their minds if they knew a non white male was in the fraternity? I often wonder beyond the Guide to Membership hand book what they really were as people in terms of equality and racism.

[psi_chotic02]

I have no doubt that our fathers knew that other races would soon be initiated into our frat....You can tell by the oaths and charges that we take in our rituals....I mean, how can you say what an outstanding musician looks like. An outstanding musician has no face.....no matter what race or gender.......BUT TBS was created in light of KKPsi to do basically the same things under the understanding of SISTERHOOD. I know that this is the era of Title IX's and women's independence, but the Bible speaks of women as "the weaker vessel.." This doesn't mean spiritually, because your spirit has no limitations on how strong it can be. I know many women that are much closer to God than men. This text is obviously referring to the physical limitations that a woman has, in respect to that of a man. To me, women that join KKPsi instead of the ajoining TBS chapter at their school, are basically slapping Wava Banes in the face.....

[bonelifer]

To me, women that join KKPsi instead of the ajoining TBS chapter at their school, are basically slapping Wava Banes in the face.....

What, by being strong enough of a woman to make their own choice as to what organization they were in. I doubt very seriously if Wava would give a flying-squirrels-ass as to what choice a particular person makes. In fact if Wava felt that way then she'd be slapping herself with 4ton block of shit, because TBS was started to give women the chance to make their own choices in the realm of the band, when bands where mostly men. So if a woman chooses KKPsi over TBS then she has made a choice to "THINK" for herself and not let others tell her what people she will associate with.

Delta Chi Chapter, Kappa Kappa Psi
(yeah, that's right, it's the dirty dirty
south smacking you in the face.)

[psi_chotic02]

Actually.......Wava had a specific purpose in mind when making the our beloved sister organization......i mean, ....u have to ask yourself the question........Why is there a TBS??? I'm not saying that i wouldn't accept a female brother anyway.......but the phrase "female brother" is an oxy moron by itself......
I equally hate to see male sisters!!! I mean, what the heck is that??? A MALE sister???? It's just unbelievable what America sees as legit these days........
I'm sure that Wava would much rather see a Sorority full of girls than a sorority full of guys.....As well as the fathers a frat. full of guys than full of girls........i mean, lets be honest!

[WCUgirl]

Originally posted by psi_chotic02
Actually.......Wava had a specific purpose in mind when making the our beloved sister organization......i mean, ....u have to ask yourself the question........Why is there a TBS??? I'm not saying that i wouldn't accept a female brother anyway.......but the phrase "female brother" is an oxy moron by itself......
I equally hate to see male sisters!!! I mean, what the heck is that??? A MALE sister???? It's just unbelievable what America sees as legit these days........
I'm sure that Wava would much rather see a Sorority full of girls than a sorority full of guys.....As well as the fathers a frat. full of guys than full of girls........i mean, lets be honest!

and

Originally posted by psi_chotic02
my opinion is that if the founding fathers wanted to send a clear message about women being in the frat......they would've had at least one women founder (I mean, i know there had to be at least ONE female member in the band).....THEY wouldn't call themselves fathers.........WE wouldn't be called brothers.......and THIS wouldn't be a brotherhood!!!

First of all, most of the guys who are members of TBS say they are brothers of TBS. I haven't met a guy yet who calls himself a sister of TBS. And even if I do, that's perfectly fine.

Second of all, what does it matter what sex you are if you are joined together with a group of people for the same purpose? What does it matter if the founders of your org. are men and it is now full of women? Or vice versa? One of Chi Omega's founders was a man but you won't hear one of them complain about it! We learned that women were admitted into KKPsi during WWII when the men were all shipped off to war...they were initated to keep the fraternity from dyeing off due to low numbers. Kinda' like in the movie "A League of Their Own" when women start playing baseball.

You should already know the purposes, but here they are again:

"Be it known that Kappa Kappa Psi, National Honorary Fraternity for College Bandmembers, is an organization operating exclusively in the field of the college and university bands, and for the following several purposes:

(1) To promote the existence and welfare of the college and university bands and to cultivate at large a wholesome respect for their activities and achievements.

(2) To honor outstanding bandmembers through privilege of membership extended as a reward for technical achievement and appreciation for the best in music.

(3) To stimulate campus leadership and promulgate an uncompromising respect through the medium of the college band for gracious conduct, good taste and unswerving loyalty.

(4) To foster a close relationship between college bands and promote a high average of attainment by the performance of good music and selection of worthwhile projects.

(5) To provide a pleasant and helpful social experience for all engaged in college band work and to cooperate with other musical organizations in any manner consistent with the purposes of the institution at which chapters are located."

Nowhere does it say "brother" or "men" or "boys" or "brotherhood." So really, by calling ourselves "brothers," it's not really something that is official. There is currently a thread on this board somewhere and I'm sure there are several more where the different sororities discuss whether they were founded as a "sorority" or a "fraternity." My sorority is known as Alpha Xi Delta National Fraternity. That does not in any way make us "brothers" of our fraternity. Fraternity is just a word, and defined by the dictionary as "a body of people associated for a common purpose or interest, such as a guild." Where does that mention that it is chiefly male or that the members are known as "brothers" or "sisters?"

If you have such a problem with this, why did you join KKPsi to begin with?

[PandaOnProzac]

We all have our opinions but keep in mind we're all brothers that experienced the same ritual and principles. I personally accept anyone as a brother in the bond of music and service.

I don't want to stir up trouble but if you have a problem with KKPsi being coed then there are things you can do to deal with it. Personally I wanted the all male fraternity experience and that's why I pledged Phi Delta Theta. As a dual greek I can see it from both perspectives. If you want the all male experience then there are plenty of other greek organizations out there. Some people have given me crap for being in both. Some feel I may have left the brotherhood of KKPsi but the truth is I love both equally. But anywho yeah if you want there are other opportunities out there.

[Attractive#7]

Originally posted by psi_chotic02
I'm not saying that i wouldn't accept a female brother anyway.......but the phrase "female brother" is an oxy moron by itself......

Is it really??? The word brother is not always used to describe gender.

Brother
1. A male person who has the same father and mother with another person, or who has one of them only. In the latter case he is more definitely called a half brother, or brother of the half blood.
2. One related or closely united to another by some common tie or interest, as of rank, profession, membership in a society, toil, suffering, etc.;
3. One who, or that which, resembles another in distinctive qualities or traits of character.

I could go on with the defintions of the word brother that have nothing to do with your gender, but you get the point...I hope

[Measi]

The co-ed chapters in KKY and TBS can (and are) a problem in many schools, yet others seem to handle it just fine.

My class was the last year that both the KKY and TBS chapters at my school were single-sex. The next year, KKY went co-ed. TBS did not. Three years later, TBS was gone. The chapter has been reborn, and is now co-ed, although is by far still majority female. I would prefer single-sex chapters, but at the same time... our chapters of KKY and TBS have such different personalities and different goals-- the co-ed chapters work well to offer different possibilities for each incoming band member.

The most important thing, I think, is that each member who joins the organization does so because they want to, not because it's the only choice available to them.

~ Mel.

[Measi]

Originally posted by AXiD670
Nowhere does it say "brother" or "men" or "boys" or "brotherhood." So really, by calling ourselves "brothers," it's not really something that is official. There is currently a thread on this board somewhere and I'm sure there are several more where the different sororities discuss whether they were founded as a "sorority" or a "fraternity." My sorority is known as Alpha Xi Delta National Fraternity. That does not in any way make us "brothers" of our fraternity. Fraternity is just a word, and defined by the dictionary as "a body of people associated for a common purpose or interest, such as a guild." Where does that mention that it is chiefly male or that the members are known as "brothers" or "sisters?"

If you have such a problem with this, why did you join KKPsi to begin with? [/B]

For what it's worth, my Tau Beta Sigma shingle has "Tau Beta Sigma National Honorary <b>Fraternity</b>" on it. Both organizations are officially fraternities.

The terms sister and brother are used loosely in our chapter... the guys in TBS go with what they're comfortable with.

[WCUgirl]

Originally posted by Measi
For what it's worth, my Tau Beta Sigma shingle has "Tau Beta Sigma National Honorary <b>Fraternity</b>" on it. Both organizations are officially fraternities.

The terms sister and brother are used loosely in our chapter... the guys in TBS go with what they're comfortable with.

Thanks, Measi, for bringing up this point. I do not know much about TBS other than that it is KKPsi's "sister" organization. We had a TBS chapter at my school (it was also co-ed), but they closed a little over a year after I pledged.

I don't know what happened to the original poster who got us on this tangent (psi_chotic), but I somehow doubt any of this really matters to him.

[Contessima]

.

[looseneck4]

I personly don't like the idea of women in the frat but I would never (and never will...with or without estrogen) would turn a brother away....
The only music fraternities I know of are KKPsi ,PMA, and SAI
TBS is a sorority *it states this on your constitution*...sure it may may use a unisex word like band member but you are a sorority non the less and any man that joins your ranks a sorority sister regaurdless of what u may call him ..........personly I can only aprove of men joining in certian situations...honorary and restablishment of a dead chapter....but to each his own......

But this coed thing is/does causing a problem ......."if you have one then why the need for the other".......ask a few Universities that have run into this problem with the administration if men and women can join an org that is coed and serve the same purpose then y let u have both....

might as well disolve TBS and only have PSI...and tell Wava thanks for the memories!!!!

[Measi]

Originally posted by looseneck4
I personly don't like the idea of women in the frat but I would(and never will...with or without estrogen) turn a brother away....
The only music fraternities I know of are KKPsi ,PMA, and SAI
TBS is a sorority *it states this on your constitution*...sure it may may use a unisex word like band member but you are a sorority non the less and any man that joins your ranks a sorority sister regaurdless of what u may call him ..........personly I can only aprove of men joining in certian situations...honorary and restablishment of a dead chapter....but to each his own......

But this coed thing is/does causing a problem ......."if you have one then why the need for the other".......ask a few Universities that have run into this problem with the administration if men and women can join an org that is coed and serve the same purpose then y let u have both....

might as well disolve TBS and only have PSI...and tell Wava thanks for the memories!!!!

Of course--- dissolve TBS. Very typical of brothers who have some insecurity complex. Honestly, I don't know where KKPsi brothers have developed this b.s. I hear it all the time from brothers. I've rarely heard it from sisters-- and when I have heard it, it's been out of frustration in response to this posturing.

Do yourself a favor and get rid of the attitude-- because it HURTS your organization. BOTH organizations are equal in worth. If you think TBS should be dissolved, then KKPsi should be as well.

Do both organizations serve the same purpose? Yes. Do they go about it in the same way? Depends on your school. I can say for sure that Theta Beta (for KKPsi) and Eta Gamma (for TBS) are completely different organizations. Completely different dynamic, and they attract completely different types of people. Both chapters are co-ed. I can't speak for Theta Beta's feeling toward their female brothers, but I wouldn't trade our male sisters for anything.

Co-ed chapters CAN create problems if both organizations don't agree it's a good thing. But schools such as UConn have had both co-ed chapters for years, and it's never been a problem there.