Biggest Rush Mistakes at any institution

[Elephant Walk]

Why is this being talked about on "Biggest (Fraternity) Rush mistakes at any institution"...create your own thread, jesus.

[SWTXBelle]

Maybe using "sorostitute" is a big rush mistake.

Back on topic.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

If a man uses the term, I don't see how anyone could believe he holds a high regard for women. Any women, greek or no.

It is like a racial slur in that it is deliberately demeaning - reducing women to sex objects. If I were to refer to a dark minority member as a "Sambo", he would be rightly offended, because I have reduced him to a stereotype. If indeed other women use it, it doesn't make it any better than minorities using racial slurs affectionately or as a joke. Some women will refer to others as c**** - I think that's wrong, too.

So the score - Offensive - 1
Not offensive, hey, it's joke - 1

eta - hey, how many of you fraternity men object to the term "frat" - a far less loaded term?

Big Co-sign!

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Maybe using "sorostitute" is a big rush mistake.

Back on topic.

It is. Never use "sorostitute" during rush. Many fraternity men have family members who are sorority women. Our Mothers, our sisters, our cousins, and girlfriends and friends in general. You may think you are being funny and cute, but you may very well be disrespecting someone's family.

[skylark]

I hope my vote is counted on the offensive side in SWTX's poll.

I totally agree with the above explanation of why: it equates women with sexual objects as their only worth. If you don't think it is offensive, then try to imagine calling your mother (or grandmother) a "sororstitute" to her face and imagine her reaction.

And I think racial slurs are very comparable because many people who are racial minorities will use the term as slang, but it doesn't make the word less loaded.

I promise to judge every person on this board who uses the term "sororstitute" so don't feel picked on, Phi Gam.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by skylark

I hope my vote is counted on the offensive side in SWTX's poll.

I totally agree with the above explanation of why: it equates women with sexual objects as their only worth. If you don't think it is offensive, then try to imagine calling your mother (or grandmother) a "sororstitute" to her face and imagine her reaction.

And I think racial slurs are very comparable because many people who are racial minorities will use the term as slang, but it doesn't make the word less loaded.

I promise to judge every person on this board who uses the term "sororstitute" so don't feel picked on, Phi Gam.

Of course I think you ought to judge anyone you want to judge and be offended by anything that offends you. But based on the number of my former students who have used the term in my presence and their varying attitudes about women, I don't think it's going to be a valid and reliable indicator that a person who uses the term hates or wants to abuse women.

Personally, I don't think a derogatory word based on a bad stereotype of a small subsection of a group, like "sorostitute," is ever going to equate to a racial slur that denigrates a whole group, but to each her own, I suppose.

ETA: if you said it to my mother, she would just think you were kind of an idiot, but she wouldn't see it as a reflection on her or assume than you showed a disregard for anyone other than sorority women. Showing disregard for sorority women is a problem if you are one AND you think the person using the term is implying something about your character, rather than making fun of the stereotype.

I don't think you should ever talk about anyone's mother or grandmother during fraternity rush. It would be a mistake.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Of course I think you ought to judge anyone you want to judge and be offended by anything that offends you. But based on the number of my former students who have used the term in my presence and their varying attitudes about women, I don't think it's going to be a valid and reliable indicator that a person who uses the term hates or wants to abuse women.

That is all I ever wanted to say.

Personally, I don't think a derogatory word based on a bad stereotype of a small subsection of a group, like "sorostitute," is ever going to equate to a racial slur that denigrates a whole group, but to each her own, I suppose.

ETA: if you said it to my mother, she would just think you were kind of an idiot, but she wouldn't see it as a reflection on her or assume than you showed a disregard for anyone other than sorority women. Showing disregard for sorority women is a problem if you are one AND you think the person using the term is implying something about your character, rather than making fun of the stereotype.

Would you recommend that a woman going through sorority recruitment use "sorostitute"? Even if she was trying to make fun or light of the stereotype? Most - if not all - of the ladies I have the pleasure of of being acquainted with, would find it's use offense. As do the gentlemen. It is crass and common. Which is why if a man wants a bid to a fraternity, he should never use it.

To be clear, I am directing this toward fraternity rush. Even an active - who might use the term "in private" or with his friends - may find it offense when someone he does not know feels free to use it around him. This is similar to profanity. So if he wants a bid, he needs to be certain he does not offend any one member. Remember that in some chapters/fraternities it may only take one no vote to keep someone from receiving a bid.

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I don't think you should ever talk about anyone's mother or grandmother during fraternity rush. It would be a mistake.

I wanted to address this separately. I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing your Mother or Grandmother as long as the context is appropeate. A simple example may be "My Mother is an XYZ." when asked if anyone in your family belongs to a GLO. How a gentleman shows respect to women - and especially to his kin - is something that a lot of fraternities want to know. Especially before they consider extending him a bid. (Been there, heard it discussed.)

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Would you recommend that a woman going through sorority recruitment use "sorostitute"? Even if she was trying to make fun or light of the stereotype? Most - if not all - of the ladies I have the pleasure of of being acquainted with, would find it's use offense. As do the gentlemen. It is crass and common. Which is why if a man wants a bid to a fraternity, he should never use it.

To be clear, I am directing this toward fraternity rush. Even an active - who might use the term "in private" or with his friends - may find it offense when someone he does not know feels free to use it around him. This is similar to profanity. So if he wants a bid, he needs to be certain he does not offend any one member. Remember that in some chapters/fraternities it may only take one no vote to keep someone from receiving a bid.



I wanted to address this separately. I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing your Mother or Grandmother as long as the context is appropeate. A simple example may be "My Mother is an XYZ." when asked if anyone in your family belongs to a GLO. How a gentleman shows respect to women - and especially to his kin - is something that a lot of fraternities want to know. Especially before they consider extending him a bid. (Been there, heard it discussed.)

I was kidding about the mother and grandmother comment for the most part; it was just thrown in to pretend I was addressing the topic of the thread. I intended it to be along the lines of someone being dumb enough to say something bad about someone's mother. I think it would be a bit odd to bring up someone's mom or grandmother, but there wouldn't be a reason, if topical, that moms and gmoms are specifically off limits. I agree that most fraternity men want to pledge other men who would treat the female members of their families with great respect.

I wouldn't recommend anyone use the word sorostitute. As I said in my first post, I'm not a fan of the term, and I don't see how it really behooves any member associated with Greek life to perpetuate bad stereotypes, but the kids these days, some of them who bear women no ill will, are using the term quite a bit. If we were on campus to hear the current undergrads, I think we'd spend a lot of time being offended.

I think any person going through rush should be even more cautious than the people who are members of a group although I think they should be careful too. To some degree, I think if a rusher used the term in conversation with a PNM, it might actually be kind of test to see if the PNM believed the stereotype, and it might reflect on her very poorly if she picked the term up and made a joke herself. ETA: I think this would also be true for men going through rush.

EagainTA: if you run a facebook search for "sorostitute" it returns 279 groups (at least mine does). Many of these end up being "Fratdaddies and Sorostitute" groups for individual campuses, and the membership in these groups seems to be primarily, if not exclusively Greek. (I can't really tell since I'm not in their networks to look at their profiles.) It appears to be the case that around half the members are women. I offer this as evidence NOT that the term is okay; simply that it is in current usage with a large number of undergraduates who I don't think are especially self-loathing or misogynistic, but are instead using the term publicly as a joke.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I was kidding about the mother and grandmother comment for the most part; it was just thrown in to pretend I was addressing the topic of the thread. I intended it to be along the lines of someone being dumb enough to say something bad about someone's mother. I think it would be a bit odd to bring up someone's mom or grandmother, but there wouldn't be a reason, if topical, that moms and gmoms are specifically off limits. I agree that most fraternity men want to pledge other men who would treat the female members of their families with great respect.

I wouldn't recommend anyone use the word sorostitute. As I said in my first post, I'm not a fan of the term, and I don't see how it really behooves any member associated with Greek life to perpetuate bad stereotypes, but the kids these days, some of them who bear women no ill will, are using the term quite a bit. If we were on campus to hear the current undergrads, I think we'd spend a lot of time being offended.

I think any person going through rush should be even more cautious than the people who are members of a group although I think they should be careful too. To some degree, I think if a rusher used the term in conversation with a PNM, it might actually be kind of test to see if the PNM believed the stereotype, and it might reflect on her very poorly if she picked the term up and made a joke herself. ETA: I think this would also be true for men going through rush.

Bingo!

I have seen these "tests" used as a way to "weed out" rushees. As such, some members are actually "happy" when some high school kid comes in and uses this or any other offense term. Similar to what people have been posting here about what not to wear. They pretty much know right then and there that this is one less guy to rush.

This is why many people are an advocate of telling rushees to "be yourself". They want to know about the person they might bid and end up calling brother. As such, is this guy some sort of yahoo who does not know how to act appropriately for the particular college environment? (college environment differs college to college) Frankly, how they act during rush can be an indicator on how they might present themselves out in "real" society. And how they represent the fraternity.

Again, many fraternities require yet another vote prior to initiation. So unless you are desperate for numbers, why bid a guy that you know you are going to black ball later? Better to cut them during rush than spend time trying to change them. Pledge those that are worthy.

[PhiGam]

I have yet to meet a girl who is offended by the term "sorostitute." It is a funny, endearing term and they understand that.
Obviously if a girl is able to take care of the financial burden ($2000+ per semester) of being greek then she is never going to have to be a prostitute. Its just a harmless term, another thing that a lot of people will never understand.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

I have yet to meet a girl who is offended by the term "sorostitute." It is a funny, endearing term and they understand that.
Obviously if a girl is able to take care of the financial burden ($2000+ per semester) of being greek then she is never going to have to be a prostitute. Its just a harmless term, another thing that a lot of people will never understand.

Originally Posted by SECdomination

I consider it a harmless term, too. Plenty of people say it and no one actually takes it seriously. I really don't see why some women on here are uptight about it. ( unless someone was actually trying to be rude )

Then those girls are either playing along to curry favor (which is sad) or they haven't been raised well with self-confidence.

You say you respect women, but will you tolerate someone calling your future wife (or mother or sister or daughter) any derivative of "prostitute"?

One day when your daughter comes home from high school and says "Hey, guess what, Daddy, all the boys on the football team call me a cheer-whore, isn't that funny and cute?", will you tell her that yes, sweetie, that's a term of endearment, you should roll with it and let the boys call you that adorable, demeaning term. Or, will you tell her that she is better than that and worth more than that and she shouldn't accept that kind of diminution for someone else's entertainment?

[SWTXBelle]

Co-sign. Just because you haven't been told that some women of your acquaintance find it insulting doesn't mean they don't - they may well hate it but not have the courage to confront you. Especially if they are trying to impress you with how "cool" they are.

As to not understanding why some find it demeaning, might I direct your attention to several previous posts which make it clear why a term equating Greek women with prostitutes is not funny, endearing, or cute? It's not that anyone thinks you are literally saying they are prostitutes - it's the whole "reducing women to sexual objects" thing that is offensive.

eta - To see if it is an age thing, I asked my 18 year old if she would offended by the term - yes, she would. Admittedly, she has been raised by me, so it's perhaps a little skewed, but let me state that she has absolutely no problem in letting me know when she disagrees with me!

Perhaps you really haven't ever come across women who are offended by it. I guess it could happen. But you are now aware that there are indeed educated, competent Greek women who find it to be insulting. Why would you run the risk of inadvertently offending them by continuing to use the term?

And to get back on topic, shouldn't a rushee be careful about saying anything that might be seen as offensive (I leave it to the "frat" men to define what that means)?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Then those girls are either playing along to curry favor (which is sad) or they haven't been raised well with self-confidence.

Yeah, that's it. Girls who joke around about the term "sorostitute" are all devoid of self respect, self-confidence, and they were all raised poorly.

Are you kidding me?

You say you respect women, but will you tolerate someone calling your future wife (or mother or sister or daughter) any derivative of "prostitute"?

....because your immediate family and wife are exactly like a bunch of college aged people who are comfortable with using some crude humor around each other in friendly settings.

It's almost as if some of you think guys just call random girls they don't know a derivative of "prostitute".

One day when your daughter comes home from high school and says "Hey, guess what, Daddy, all the boys on the football team call me a cheer-whore, isn't that funny and cute?", will you tell her that yes, sweetie, that's a term of endearment, you should roll with it and let the boys call you that adorable, demeaning term. Or, will you tell her that she is better than that and worth more than that and she shouldn't accept that kind of diminution for someone else's entertainment?

Does this need to be done again?

.......because a random high school football player calling your daughter a whore is obviously the EXACT same situation as you joking around with a group of PERFECTLY GOOD FRIENDS who understand that the term "sorostitute" is a joke, used in jest.

[Elephant Walk]

GreekChat gets fairly overbearing with the amount of old people who are determined to be politically correct all the time. It's rather boring when this occurs.

That being said we say "frat brah" alot...if we're mocking a fraternity brother who has acted like a GDI in some way. or "broski"

[catiebug]

old = alumni + money = support for your chapter

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

GreekChat gets fairly overbearing with the amount of old people who are determined to be politically correct all the time. It's rather boring when this occurs.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by catiebug

old = alumni + money = support for your chapter

Alumni from my chapter don't sit around on GreekChat all day, they're busy running the country.