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  #271  
Old 06-15-2005, 05:58 PM
ZTABullwinkle ZTABullwinkle is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by lifesaver

guess the autopsy debunks that crap her parents were saying that she was looking at them and all lit up when they walked into the room.
You took the words right out of my mouth. I didn't beleive the video of her following the balloon. If you watched close enough, you could tell whoever was holding the balloon would move it when she moved. Not the other way around.

Please, let this be a lesson to everyone who fought so hard to keep her alive. IMHO, there was no quality of life. I (PERSONALLY) would have wanted my loved ones to let me go.


--> Please, don't flame me. I am just stating my opinion. I work in the medical field. I have seen cases like this WAY too many times.
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  #272  
Old 06-15-2005, 07:16 PM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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The article I read on CNN even said that her brain was significantly smaller than Karen Quinlan's was at the time of her death (Karen was taken off life support, began to breathe on her own but was in a persistent vegetative state for 10 years before she died, for those who are too young to remember that case). They said Karen's was 875 grams.

Jeb Bush was quoted in that article too:

Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, who tried to intervene on the Schindlers' behalf, said in a written statement Wednesday that "Terri's life and her death remind us all that life is so fragile and must be valued."

"We will continue to strive to protect our most vulnerable citizens. All innocent human life is precious and government has a duty to protect the weak, disabled and vulnerable," he wrote. "Our thoughts and prayers remain with the Schindler family during this most difficult time."

And, the Schindler family attorney: "Their report shows what we have said -- that Terri was not terminal," said the Schindlers' attorney, David Gibbs. "Terri Schiavo was not in an end-of-life situation. The decision was made to end her life, and we believe it was done in a barbaric manner."

Ultimately, I don't think you can change the minds of people like that, no matter what the scientific evidence says.

Dee
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  #273  
Old 06-16-2005, 02:15 PM
PsychTau2 PsychTau2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZTABullwinkle
You took the words right out of my mouth. I didn't believe the video of her following the balloon. If you watched close enough, you could tell whoever was holding the balloon would move it when she moved. Not the other way around.
Did anyone notice also that every picture and video that was shown was from 2001 and before? Through the whole battle I never saw a picture or a video dated 2004 or 2005. In 2001 she may have still been able to move her head/eyes/whatever...but probably not 4 years later. Not as much atrophy as she had.

The parents worked hard to build a case on old information...at least in the public eye. Who knows what the judges saw.

In any case, I feel for the parents. I'm sure it's so very very hard to let a child go so young, especially when people suspect an eating disorder and you constantly have in the back of your head "I should have done something...I should have done something." Sometimes there's just nothing else to do...it's really hard to accept that helplessness.

Regarding the cause of her collapse, there's no way they'd be able to figure that out this late in the game. I don't think they would be able to diagnose an eating disorder on her now...seems like the prudent thing to do would be to review her ER records. On the other hand, sometimes shit happens and people drop dead without warning or apparent cause.

I hope everyone involved can find some peace.

PsychTau
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  #274  
Old 06-16-2005, 02:46 PM
DeltaSigStan DeltaSigStan is offline
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http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/06/16...cnn_topstories


Schiavo's parents not swayed by autopsy results

Thursday, June 16, 2005

LARGO, Florida (AP) -- An autopsy that found Terri Schiavo suffered from severe and irreversible brain-damage has done nothing to sway her parents' position that she deserved to live and may have gotten better with therapy.

The long-awaited report Wednesday found Schiavo's brain had shrunk to about half the normal size for a woman her age when she died March 31 after her feeding tube was disconnected. (Full story)

The autopsy also determined she was blind.

Bob and Mary Schindler disputed the results, insisting their daughter interacted with them and tried to speak. Their attorney said the family plans to discuss the autopsy with other medical experts and may take some unspecified legal action.

"We knew all along that Terri was profoundly brain damaged," said Schiavo's brother, Bobby Schindler. "We simply wanted to bring her home and care for her. It all goes back to this quality of life."

The findings vindicated Schiavo's husband in his long and vitriolic battle with his in-laws that engulfed the courts, Congress and the White House and divided the country. Michael Schiavo and court-appointed doctors have said she had no hope of recovery. She died at age 41.

The autopsy also found no evidence that Terri Schiavo was strangled or otherwise abused before her sudden 1990 collapse -- countering allegations by the Schindlers that she was abused by her husband.

Yet medical examiners could not say for certain what caused the collapse, long thought to have been brought on by an eating disorder.

George Felos, attorney for Michael Schiavo, said the findings back up their contentions made "for years and years" that Terri Schiavo had no hope of recovery. He said Michael Schiavo plans to release autopsy photographs of her shrunken brain.

"Mr. Schiavo has received so much criticism throughout this case that I'm certain there's a part of him that was pleased to hear these results and the hard science behind them," Felos said.

The Schindlers fought their son-in-law in court over their daughter's fate for nearly seven years, battling to the end with conservatives at their side.

The autopsy counters a widely seen videotape the Schindlers released of Schiavo in her hospice bed. Schiavo appeared to turn toward her mother's voice and smile. She moaned and laughed. Her head moved up and down and she seemed to follow the progress of a brightly colored Mickey Mouse balloon.

Her parents said that showed she was aware of her surroundings, but doctors said Schiavo's reactions were automatic responses and not evidence of thought or consciousness.

"There's nothing in her autopsy report that is inconsistent with a persistent vegetative state," said Dr. Stephen J. Nelson, a medical examiner who assisted in the neurological portion of the autopsy.

Cause of death was dehydration from removal of the feeding tube, but the underlying reason for her brain damage was officially listed as "undetermined."

The autopsy included 274 external and internal body images and an exhaustive review of Schiavo's medical records, police reports and social services agency records.

Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Dr. Jon Thogmartin said the autopsy produced no conclusion on what triggered the temporary heart stoppage that caused her collapse and brain damage. He said there was no evidence of drug use, though he cautioned that Schiavo was not tested in 1990 for every conceivable substance that could have been in her blood.

He said there was no proof she suffered from an eating disorder such as bulimia, which can disrupt the body chemistry with lethal effect. The main piece of evidence cited for an eating disorder -- the low levels of potassium in her blood in 1990 -- could have been caused by the emergency treatment she received at the time, Thogmartin said.

While she had lost more than 100 pounds since high school, Schiavo never confessed to an eating disorder, she did not take diet pills and no one had witnessed her purging food, the medical examiner said.

He discounted the possibility that she had overdosed on caffeine from drinking large amounts of tea in an effort to keep her weight down.

In addition, the autopsy found no traces of morphine in her system at her death, although she had been given two doses in the days before she died. The Schindlers had contended that morphine might have been used to speed their daughter's death.

In Washington, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the autopsy did nothing to change President Bush's position that Schiavo's feeding tube should not have been disconnected. He had signed a bill, rushed through by Congress in March, that was a last-ditch effort to restore her feeding tube.

Experts said that the autopsy demonstrates how difficult it is for people to recover from severe brain damage.

"People should understand that sometimes, for known or unknown reasons, individuals sustain massive brain injury that for which healing is not possible," said Dr. Karen Weidenheim, the chief of neuropathology at Montefiore Medical Center in New York. "Everything that could have been done was done for this lady for 15 years, and this case is very tragic."

Last edited by DeltaSigStan; 06-16-2005 at 02:49 PM.
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  #275  
Old 06-16-2005, 03:11 PM
kddani kddani is offline
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Her parents didn't believe reality?

In other news: water is wet
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  #276  
Old 06-16-2005, 07:13 PM
ZTAngel ZTAngel is offline
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I hope Michael Schiavo sues the Schindlers for libel and slander.
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  #277  
Old 06-17-2005, 01:24 AM
lifesaver lifesaver is offline
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Autopsy results and her parents denial of it proves they have moved further from reality, truely DIDNT have Terri's best interests at heart and were beholden to the zealots (who were bankrolling them).

Love is understandable, but at this point they are denying science and standing there like a 3 year old with fingers in their ears saying "You cant make me listen!!!"

They probably also believe that the Earth is still the center of the universe.
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  #278  
Old 06-17-2005, 12:08 PM
WCUgirl WCUgirl is offline
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Further proof that Jeb is an idiot:

Gov. Bush Wants Investigation into Schiavo 911 Call

Friday, June 17, 2005 Posted: 11:58 AM EDT (1558 GMT)

TALLAHASSEE, Florida (AP) -- Gov. Jeb Bush asked a prosecutor Friday to investigate why Terri Schiavo collapsed 15 years ago, calling into question how long it took her husband to call 911 after he found her.

In a letter faxed to Pinellas-Pasco County State Attorney Bernie McCabe, Bush said Michael Schiavo testified in a 1992 medical malpractice trial that he found his wife collapsed at 5 a.m., and he said in a 2003 television interview that he found her about 4:30 a.m. He called 911 at 5:40 a.m.

"Between 40 and 70 minutes elapsed before the call was made, and I am aware of no explanation for the delay," Bush wrote. "In light of this new information, I urge you to take a fresh look at this case without any preconceptions as to the outcome."

Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment Friday from The Associated Press. In comments in The Miami Herald, he said Terri Schiavo would not have survived if her husband had not immediately called 911.
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  #279  
Old 06-17-2005, 12:21 PM
moe.ron moe.ron is offline
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It looks like Gov. Bush is pandering to the extreme right.
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  #280  
Old 06-17-2005, 12:25 PM
valkyrie valkyrie is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by moe.ron
It looks like Gov. Bush is pandering to the extreme right.
Don't they have other things to worry about in Florida?
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  #281  
Old 06-17-2005, 12:30 PM
DeltaSigStan DeltaSigStan is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by valkyrie
Don't they have other things to worry about in Florida?
While we see it as a problem, they LOVE Katherine Harris...

But who am I to talk? The Last Action Hero is our fucking governor.
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  #282  
Old 06-17-2005, 01:45 PM
ZTAngel ZTAngel is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DeltaSigStan
While we see it as a problem, they LOVE Katherine Harris...
Yuck. Trust me, not all Floridians love her. I still consider myself a Floridian (I've only been out of the state for 2 months!) and I find her to be the most vile, disgusting person in the Florida legislature...yeah, she's worse than JEB! in my mind.
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  #283  
Old 06-19-2005, 03:53 AM
moe.ron moe.ron is offline
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Anybody else think this will not end until Michael get prosecuted for murder?

This is not healthy for the family at all. They need to come to term with her death and move on.
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  #284  
Old 06-19-2005, 08:52 PM
AnonAlumna AnonAlumna is offline
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I'm really so happy to hear this! I just got copies of Health Care Proxies for all of my family members to fill out! I do NOT want to deal with this crap if it happened to me!
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  #285  
Old 06-19-2005, 09:41 PM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by valkyrie
Don't they have other things to worry about in Florida?
The fact that only 16 of the state's 67 school districts are of any quality, the fact that there's this kid in the state's custody who just went missing, and all the other things that make Floriduh the clusterf%$k that it is...just aren't as important as the Bush family's "culture of life"!
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