Speaking of inappropriate paraphernalia...

[starang21]

Originally posted by laidbackfella
LOL, the Greek Shop, isn't telling you that have to get your letters on this side or that side.

They are simply telling you what they will and won't do.

A question, for the masses. In your respective organizations which came first the letters or the shield?

msn4med1975, in terms of the Greek World, what would be held closer to your heart than your letters?

you're right, the letters did come first. (speaking for myself) but any frat who can break down the shield for me knows that everything on the shield and what it stands for knows that those things are close to the heart. now, from what i've heard from an AKA who's been in the Greekshop store and who's talked to the owner, she said that people started doing it that way because older white greeks were doing it. now i'm not sure if that the reason why the Greekshop does it differently, though.

[msn4med1975]

Originally posted by laidbackfella
LOL, the Greek Shop, isn't telling you that have to get your letters on this side or that side.

They are simply telling you what they will and won't do.

A question, for the masses. In your respective organizations which came first the letters or the shield?

msn4med1975, in terms of the Greek World, what would be held closer to your heart than your letters?

It just depends on what it is. In certain situations of COURSE the letters come first but on pari for those that have the sheild and the letters, sheild is closer to my heart if they are on different sides. If they are on the same side then the letters are typically above the sheild.

[SKEEphistAKAte]

I have two crossing jackets. On both, I have my shield over my heart and my letters vertically on the right. I was told that that is the appropriate way. Now that I think about it, I've never seen the reverse done. Maybe it's a southern thing.

[LB1914]

Originally posted by SKEEphistAKAte
I have two crossing jackets. On both, I have my shield over my heart and my letters vertically on the right. I was told that that is the appropriate way. Now that I think about it, I've never seen the reverse done. Maybe it's a southern thing.

I don't think it is a southern thing either because down here most of us have the shield over our heart as well. That is how I was told also, but I guess things are different in different places.

[SKEEphistAKAte]

LB- That's what I meant, I am in the south myself (Florida) so I figured maybe it is a southern thing to have the crest over the heart and letters on the right.

[LB1914]

Originally posted by SKEEphistAKAte
LB- That's what I meant, I am in the south myself (Florida) so I figured maybe it is a southern thing to have the crest over the heart and letters on the right.

My bad

I was made in the South and I honestly haven't seen it any other way besides having the shield over your heart.

[msn4med1975]

Well I'm in the midwest so it may be a Southern transplant but who knows.

[rho4life]

i don't have the crest on any of my crossing jackets. I have the letters over my heart, and a burning love for Sigma [and a Vicky's Bra] supporting it.

[NiaX]

Originally posted by LB1914
My bad

I was made in the South and I honestly haven't seen it any other way besides having the shield over your heart.

I am in the midwest...and I have only seen that way.....

Just because it's what you see doesn't mean it's correct.

Have any of you ever read Allegory of The Cave by Plato?

I'm not saying that right versus left is a dividing issue. But nothing in my fraternity is more important than my letters. Its the start of everything else. Had there been no Omega Psi Phi, the shield would not have been designed, the colors would not have selected nor would the Cardinal Principles have been adopted.

"Correct" protocol as far as paraphernalia doesn't depend on what you see. It's based on what actual tradition is. The truth is we may never know but The Greekshop has articulated their policy and why they do it that way. The shield over the heart has never been stated as protocol by any other website I've ever been to. It just falls in line with how uniforms and t-shirts have always been made. Symbol of the company/slogan on the left side and the name of the person working on the right. It could have been applied wholesale to the Greek world as well.

Lemme pose this question about what you see versus protocol.

Are Greeks supposed to drink in Nalia? If no, how often do you see it?

[AKA2D '91]

I think it is all relative to who you are speaking with as to what is appropriate regarding para. Like LBF said, and what store you supporting at the time. I remember when I got my first jacket, I was with my mother at the Greek store. While she was trying to get me to purchase the sweater...I WANTED THE SATIN baseball jacket Boy, was I wrong. I should have gotten that sweater. NOW, I want one with EVERYTHING ON IT...lol Anywho, I didn't know what I wanted, how to arrange, it etc. So, the person at the store designed it for me. Having said that...

I don't remember any workshops saying that you are SUPPOSED to do this or do that or don't do this or don't do that. I don't remember OFFICIAL discussions regarding para.

I guess it all depends on where you are, who you are speaking to, etc. etc.

As with many things regarding our organizations they vary by chapter, region, cluster, state, person etc.

[LB1914]

Originally posted by laidbackfella
Just because it's what you see doesn't mean it's correct.

Have any of you ever read Allegory of The Cave by Plato?

I'm not saying that right versus left is a dividing issue. But nothing in my fraternity is more important than my letters. Its the start of everything else. Had there been no Omega Psi Phi, the shield would not have been designed, the colors would not have selected nor would the Cardinal Principles have been adopted.

"Correct" protocol as far as paraphernalia doesn't depend on what you see. It's based on what actual tradition is. The truth is we may never know but The Greekshop has articulated their policy and why they do it that way. The shield over the heart has never been stated as protocol by any other website I've ever been to. It just falls in line with how uniforms and t-shirts have always been made. Symbol of the company/slogan on the left side and the name of the person working on the right. It could have been applied wholesale to the Greek world as well.

Lemme pose this question about what you see versus protocol.

Are Greeks supposed to drink in Nalia? If no, how often do you see it?

To be honest, just because Greekshop.com has posted what they feel is proper protocol does not make it correct either.

As far as Sigma is concerned, even our own International President(a Spring 71 initiate) wears jackets with the shield over the heart and the letters on the other side. I can understand the logic that Greekshop.com is using, but it is not written anywhere in our regulations or by-laws. Therefore, I do not feel the need to be bound by it.

Just out of curiousity: If what Greekshop.com states is correct, then why are they just about the only outlet that creates jackets in that fashion? If it were correct, you would think that it would be more widespread.

By the way, I was also taught not to drink in nalia.

Originally posted by LB1914
To be honest, just because Greekshop.com has posted what they feel is proper protocol does not make it correct either.

That's my point they are the ONLY ones to ever post it EITHER way. From most people that I ask now they simply say, "Well that how it always been done that way." That doesn't make it right or wrong, they are following what they have seen done before without a clear rationale as to why.

There is a white man who makes Paraphernalia here in SC. He's been in the business for about 30 years. He does it either way. He's said that based on research he has done it should be with letters on the right, but he does what the the customer asks for. If they ask for input he gives it. He's not in the business of teaching protocol but making paraphernalia.

As far as Sigma is concerned, even our own International President(a Spring 71 initiate) wears jackets with the shield over the heart and the letters on the other side. I can understand the logic that Greekshop.com is using, but it is not written anywhere in our regulations or by-laws. Therefore, I do not feel the need to be bound by it.

If your International President has never thought about this subject why would he question what side it goes on? He's simply wearing what he considers paraphernalia. And now has further influenced others that it is the proper way to wear it.

Just out of curiousity: If what Greekshop.com states is correct, then why are they just about the only outlet that creates jackets in that fashion? If it were correct, you would think that it would be more widespread.

There is a saying if it don't make dollars it don't make sense. When you deal with these other outlets do you feel that they are greek owned and operated? Most vendors are about revenue rather than re-education. So rather than turn a dollar away they, hypothetically speaking, turn their back on tradition. Doing things the correct way takes a great deal of fortitude. I respect his position even more because he stands firm on his belief even when there in a $500 order in his face. I don't have faith that other companies would do the same.

Just for kicks. The next time you see a vendor ask them do they have any jackets with letters on the other side or can you have yours made with letters on the other side. I'm sure the only thing that they will tell you is it's usually done with the shield over the heart. I doubt they would tell you no they won't do your order.

By the way, I was also taught not to drink in nalia.

Now what I see happening, from place to place, is different than what was taught in many instances all across the board. That's why I don't trust simply what I see. I ask so that I know or have that person's rationale.

[LB1914]

All in all, my jackets have the shield over the heart and that is how it will remain. Anyone that takes offense can either buy me another jacket or keep it moving.

[SKEEphistAKAte]

Originally posted by LB1914
All in all, my jackets have the shield over the heart and that is how it will remain. Anyone that takes offense can either buy me another jacket or keep it moving.

Even if they bought me another jacket I wouldn't wear it because I was taught that the way I wear it is the appropriate way. I don't care what some (white) greekshop has on their website. We know they do all kind of stuff with their nalia that we don't do with ours- (like change the colors of their letters).