Hazing creates a sense of unity

[LPIDelta]

Originally posted by Rudey
No it's not a shame. It's also not a shame that within the chapter they don't set a standard for all members to get the same haircut and date girls with blonde hair (although if they added a clause for big boobs I'd be all for it).

It's a shame when people try to warp people's positions....

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Heather17
It's a shame when people try to warp people's positions....

Who warped anything? You talked about setting standards for all chapters. It makes no sense, just like not setting standards within a chapter.

Listen you've talked about having some bad sorority experiences but you really need to stop projecting onto others and figure out how to get that chip off your shoulders.

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

Generally a corporate body (Nationals in this case) sets standards for all of its offices (Chapters in this case), and then local managers both enforce the corporate standards in addition to any that he/she/they set(s) due to local necessities.

While not true in all cases, I'm not sure a group of undergraduates has the experience and maturity to set overall standards.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
The first one that comes to Mind is SN, Sorry , Ktsnake. At William-Jewell in KC Metro area, they were the first with a nice big and beautiful New House which is empty now. They violated the National Rules and were Suspended once and came back on Campus, did it again and are now gone again. Ergo, SN is no longer represented there.

They're recolonizing within the next year, maybe already. I don't recall ever hearing that they were a particularly large chapter though.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Generally a corporate body (Nationals in this case) sets standards for all of its offices (Chapters in this case), and then local managers both enforce the corporate standards in addition to any that he/she/they set(s) due to local necessities.

While not true in all cases, I'm not sure a group of undergraduates has the experience and maturity to set overall standards.

It's funny how most areas set standards on jaywalking and just look the other way when you go against those standards. Sometimes people just set "standards" to say they did. Rituals are standard. Rushing and pledging are not no matter how many "Innovative" programs you come up with and think kids will buy into.

-Rudey

[LPIDelta]

Originally posted by Rudey
Listen you've talked about having some bad sorority experiences but you really need to stop projecting onto others and figure out how to get that chip off your shoulders.

-Rudey

I've also had a million great sorority experiences. I am passionate about this topic because I want to help ensure others can have positive experiences and also so our organizations will remain viable, and relevant. I am not sure what you mean by projecting--but if encouraging others to set high standards and consider the consequences of their actions is projecting, then I accept that proudly.

Most national GLOs have standards that they expect their chapters to meet in terms of numbers, paperwork, etc. At the national level, it is a business.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Rudey
It's funny how most areas set standards on jaywalking and just look the other way when you go against those standards.

Jaywalking is a law -- not a standard.

It is enforced in some places, and isn't in many (most).

Probably like many standards set by Nationals.

If you jaywalk and get hit by a car or cause and accident, you'll usually be cited.

If you ignore your Nationals and get in trouble, you'll probably be taken to task.

[Tom Earp]

Originally posted by ktsnake
They're recolonizing within the next year, maybe already. I don't recall ever hearing that they were a particularly large chapter though.

That is good to hear.

They were the first House built on land donated by The School and is really nice. I got a tour through it one summer when I went up to see what was going on.

Nice guys to me as a LX!

There is an area that is a little out of the way but man are the Houses nice.

Run around a cal du sac, SN, LXA, Fiji, and KA in that order. Houses hold around 50-60 I think and run into Millions.

Great to hear SN will be returning soon!

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Heather17
I've also had a million great sorority experiences. I am passionate about this topic because I want to help ensure others can have positive experiences and also so our organizations will remain viable, and relevant. I am not sure what you mean by projecting--but if encouraging others to set high standards and consider the consequences of their actions is projecting, then I accept that proudly.

Most national GLOs have standards that they expect their chapters to meet in terms of numbers, paperwork, etc. At the national level, it is a business.

Well people seem to be put off by your standards, so yes you are projecting. There isn't much confusion about that.

Again, the chip on your shoulders should be applied to your own sorority (APhi?) and these posts you make are nothing more than projecting and talking down.

-Rudey
--Reverand Hatcher, or whatever his name is, is pretty proud of encouraging high standards as well.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Jaywalking is a law -- not a standard.

It is enforced in some places, and isn't in many (most).

Probably like many standards set by Nationals.

If you jaywalk and get hit by a car or cause and accident, you'll usually be cited.

If you ignore your Nationals and get in trouble, you'll probably be taken to task.

A law is a standard, first of all, depending on usage of the word, or sets standards.

Second of all, given that neither the law nor the standards are usually enforced until a law is broken, it's pretty obvious that many standards really aren't pushed.

"The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from"

-Rudey

[LPIDelta]

Originally posted by Rudey
Well people seem to be put off by your standards, so yes you are projecting. There isn't much confusion about that.

Again, the chip on your shoulders should be applied to your own sorority (APhi?) and these posts you make are nothing more than projecting and talking down.

These are not "my" standards--its the law. I didn't make the laws up. And it is only a few people who do not want to follow the law, and who I would argue are putting their chapters in jeopardy for a variety of reasons (not just legal), that are put off (repeatedly). I do not believe I have talked down to anyone--rather, I have been trying to encourage people to look at the facts. I have not called anyone names nor have I tried to skew what they have said (unlike some.) I can only project if people let me.

Why are you so offended by my presentation of facts? If you disagree with the facts then attack them--there is no need to continuously attack me.

No I am not an Alpha Phi--I am a DPhiE.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Heather17
These are not "my" standards--its the law. I didn't make the laws up. And it is only a few people who do not want to follow the law, and who I would argue are putting their chapters in jeopardy for a variety of reasons (not just legal), that are put off (repeatedly). I do not believe I have talked down to anyone--rather, I have been trying to encourage people to look at the facts. I have not called anyone names nor have I tried to skew what they have said (unlike some.) I can only project if people let me.

Why are you so offended by my presentation of facts? If you disagree with the facts then attack them--there is no need to continuously attack me.

No I am not an Alpha Phi--I am a DPhiE.

At what point did I attack you? You know what's funny? By insinuating that I did so you are painting quite the ugly picture. I'd call that an "Attack" but really there isn't any need to get all emotional sweetums.

Anyway, 1) there are a ton of laws on the books that aren't enforced. I named jaywalking as one but there are sodomy laws and quite a few ridiculous things that you can find if you wanted to google. 2) not all laws are to be followed (see slavery). 3) the law is to be interpreted given that most things are gray in life and not black/white.

-Rudey

[LPIDelta]

Originally posted by Rudey
At what point did I attack you? You know what's funny? By insinuating that I did so you are painting quite the ugly picture. I'd call that an "Attack" but really there isn't any need to get all emotional sweetums.

Anyway, 1) there are a ton of laws on the books that aren't enforced. I named jaywalking as one but there are sodomy laws and quite a few ridiculous things that you can find if you wanted to google. 2) not all laws are to be followed (see slavery). 3) the law is to be interpreted given that most things are gray in life and not black/white.

-Rudey

Not emotional at all--but anytime you tell someone they have a chip on their shoulder, they might consider that personal.

Agreed--not all laws are enforced.

And not all illegal actions can lead to liability and lawsuits, which our organizations cannot afford to continuously defend ourselves against.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Heather17
Not emotional at all--but anytime you tell someone they have a chip on their shoulder, they might consider that personal.

Agreed--not all laws are enforced.

And not all illegal actions can lead to liability and lawsuits, which our organizations cannot afford to continuously defend ourselves against.

Have you ever noticed that this forum and this whole area of discussion is called Risk Management? It's not called Risk Elimination and Prevention.

We are exposed to liabilities and risk on a daily basis. In fact, it's a given that it will happen at some point (hence the liability). Given our exposure, we just try and manage it because that's all we can do. So those standards that you think need to be held above all else, are often ignored even by a national office.

I can name off several chapters of several dry fraternities where I know without a shadow of a doubt that their national office knows those chapters are not dry and those chapters are still open.

Risk is managed, molded, and evolved over time.

-Rudey

[LPIDelta]

Originally posted by Rudey
I can name off several chapters of several dry fraternities where I know without a shadow of a doubt that their national office knows those chapters are not dry and those chapters are still open.

I think the differece between this and hazing, however, is that hazing is deemed illegal in 44 states...and there are no laws governing the choice of whether an organization is dry or not , although certainly there are rules about serving and drinking underage.

As I said before, not all national orgs enforce their policies, and I don't agree with that. If you're going to have a policy, then enforce it; otherwise, consider not adopting or rescinding that policy.