Indiana University 2014 Recruitment

[AZTheta]

Sigmapisimom, we do "get IU". We do. Believe us, we do. You don't have to have your leg amputated to know that it is painful. The argument of "you have to experience it to understand it" doesn't apply.

And things do change. This past fall's recruitment (elsewhere) brought some changes that have been decades in the making.

Personally, I am heartsick at the outcome of Indiana recruitment every January. Their Panhellenic system is perpetuating an archaic method of selecting members based on what, to me, are invalid reasons. Yet there is some powerful motivation and support to continue it. As a Panhellenic-minded GC member (search my posts, I truly have friends in every chapter), I say "shame" on my sisters.

Answer this, IU Panhellenic: why NOT change? What valid, supportable, evidence-based reasons can you provide for NOT changing?

Bring it. I'm ready.

[pinkmama]

I went to IU and graduated in 1997. I remember standing on a chair and "fighting" for a girl that my bump group loved! But unfortunately she was on bottom of our list because at the first rounds she wasn't loved with the first bump group that rushed her. She ultimately was cut and she found herself in another house and was happy. Things happen on both sides

Unfortunately yesterday there were hundreds and hundreds of girls happy to attend pref night and those girls who accept bids and be happy on bid day. If you look at Instagram and Facebook of the unhoused chapters they look like they are having a great time!

To be honest I loved living in the house but I had two sisters who were 5th year seniors so they lived out when I was a senior. I spent alot of time
At their apartment making food that I wanted to eat and just only being around three other people instead of 100.

I know there will be women who dropped Bc they only got the two unhoused chapters for pref and they will regret it when they see girls walking around in those letters on bid day. I think they will get two great pledge classes because of the drastic cuts this year due to the lack of one round. I had two girls on my floor who suicided a certain house rather than ranking all three and they regretted it all semester once they saw other girls on the floors with those letters on of those houses they chose not to even put down. Then the following year one of those girls accepted a bid to the house she didn't put down the first year and she loved it.

[cinder1965]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

Sigmapisimom, we do "get IU". We do. Believe us, we do. You don't have to have your leg amputated to know that it is painful. The argument of "you have to experience it to understand it" doesn't apply.

And things do change. This past fall's recruitment (elsewhere) brought some changes that have been decades in the making.

Personally, I am heartsick at the outcome of Indiana recruitment every January. Their Panhellenic system is perpetuating an archaic method of selecting members based on what, to me, are invalid reasons. Yet there is some powerful motivation and support to continue it. As a Panhellenic-minded GC member (search my posts, I truly have friends in every chapter), I say "shame" on my sisters.

Answer this, IU Panhellenic: why NOT change? What valid, supportable, evidence-based reasons can you provide for NOT changing?

Bring it. I'm ready.

Completely agree. I am with you, bring it, IU Panhel. I want to see the evidence too. It's long overdue.

[AOII Angel]

Realize that IU doesn't really reject 40% of PNMs. Can someone find that thread with the real numbers? I have to go to work. The majority of those numbers are due to PNMs not making grades between 21 party and the beginning of rush the next semester. IU isn't perfect, but numbers aren't that low. The biggest thing to remember with all of this "mutual selection" drama is that increasing quota wouldn't necessarily mean that you or your daughters would have been offered a bid to your/ her dream sorority. The odds are that you/ she would still have been released. The PNM "ranking" does nothing other than accept offered party invitations. We used to get the invitations in the morning and pick which ones we wanted to attend but with computers, it is all done overnight with a party list generated for the PNM in the morning. The rank list doesn't influence how the sororities vote so ranking unhoused groups last does nothing if all the housed groups release you. (I personally think the Rho Gamma should be shot for giving out that very unpanhellenic, prejudicial, inflammatory advice.) Mutual selection is mutual for the highly sought after women who are invited back every where and their lists decide their invites. It doesn't seem so mutual when you get down to the PNMs that haven't made an impression on any of the groups and ends up with few invites. BUT, what we alumnae know is that those women often make amazing members if they can give it a try and get past the tent talk. Greek life, whether in a housed or unhoused chapter, has so much to offer. Choosing to not sign a bid card is one option, but giving it an honest try and seeing what fun might be in store once all the recruitment crap is over may be the best decision you/ she ever made.

[suzy88]

2013:

• 1,735 women registered
• 1,025 received bids
• 146 women not matched in process
• 182 women released for grades
• 135 participated in preference round and did not receive bids
• 376 withdrew themselves from recruitment
• Nearly 64% of women registered joined chapters

2012:

• 1,720 women registered
• 890 received bids
• 252 women were not matched throughout the process
• 74 released for grades
• 196 participated in preference round and did not receive bids
• 504 withdrew themselves from recruitment
• Nearly 52% of women registered joined chapters
• Average chapter size is 156

2011:

• 1,511 registered for recruitment
• 908 receieved bids
• 85 were released for grades
• 108 participated in preference round and did not receive bids
• 128 were released total
• 340 withdrew themselves from recruitment
• 60% of women registered joined chapters

Here are the statistics, cut and pasted directly from IU Panhellenic's website. The cuts are NOT due to grades. Bed quota is the issue. I believe many women withdraw themselves from recruitment on this campus because they do not feel they are being matched with chapters that they connect with or they are turned off by the nature of this rush. The point is, there aren't enough places for them all in the first place.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by suzy88

2013:

• 1,735 women registered
• 1,025 received bids
• 146 women not matched in process
• 182 women released for grades
• 135 participated in preference round and did not receive bids
• 376 withdrew themselves from recruitment
• Nearly 64% of women registered joined chapters

2012:

• 1,720 women registered
• 890 received bids
• 252 women were not matched throughout the process
• 74 released for grades
• 196 participated in preference round and did not receive bids
• 504 withdrew themselves from recruitment
• Nearly 52% of women registered joined chapters
• Average chapter size is 156

2011:

• 1,511 registered for recruitment
• 908 receieved bids
• 85 were released for grades
• 108 participated in preference round and did not receive bids
• 128 were released total
• 340 withdrew themselves from recruitment
• 60% of women registered joined chapters

Here are the statistics, cut and pasted directly from IU Panhellenic's website. The cuts are NOT due to grades. Bed quota is the issue. I believe many women withdraw themselves from recruitment on this campus because they do not feel they are being matched with chapters that they connect with or they are turned off by the nature of this rush. The point is, there aren't enough places for them all in the first place.

I agree that all of the story is not grades, but if you look at the numbers, it is not ALL bed quota either. An average of 394 women withdraw completely rather than being open minded and taking what their options are and giving it a try. EVERY school cuts and at every school women are faced with not having the options they thought they would or should. That was 21.7% last year, 29.3% in 2012 and 22.5% in 2011. As you can see a lot of the fault for the dismal placement numbers lies in the hands of the PNMs who won't take the invitations offered to them. Not all groups fill their slots, so there is room for improvement, but that has to come from both sides.
Getting rid of bed quota won't magically give all these women their top choices. Doesn't work that way.

[suzy88]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I agree that all of the story is not grades, but if you look at the numbers, it is not ALL bed quota either. An average of 394 women withdraw completely rather than being open minded and taking what their options are and giving it a try. EVERY school cuts and at every school women are faced with not having the options they thought they would or should. That was 21.7% last year, 29.3% in 2012 and 22.5% in 2011. As you can see a lot of the fault for the dismal placement numbers lies in the hands of the PNMs who won't take the invitations offered to them. Not all groups fill their slots, so there is room for improvement, but that has to come from both sides.
Getting rid of bed quota won't magically give all these women their top choices. Doesn't work that way.

My daughter rushed in 2011-12. She didn't get a bid. When she asked about informal recruitment, she was told there would be none, because everyone made their numbers! I saw the email from Panhellenic that stated that. I do not know about the other years, but I've heard that they were the same. I agree that women drop because they didn't get their favorites and that is a problem.
However, even if all women maximized their options on this campus, many women would be left out in the cold. Please don't blame the victims for the current situation at IU. They need a system where the number of bids is based on the number of women participating.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by suzy88

My daughter rushed in 2011-12. She didn't get a bid. When she asked about informal recruitment, she was told there would be none, because everyone made their numbers! I saw the email from Panhellenic that stated that. I do not know about the other years, but I've heard that they were the same. I agree that women drop because they didn't get their favorites and that is a problem.
However, even if all women maximized their options on this campus, many women would be left out in the cold. Please don't blame the victims for the current situation at IU. They need a system where the number of bids is based on the number of women participating.

No one is "blaming the victims" in this thread. Read carefully, please. What AOII Angel is stating is that eliminating bed quota =/= all the pnms get their top choice(s). That won't be the case. What it does mean (eliminating bed quota) is that, per RFM, quota will be set based on the # of women signing MRABAs divided by the number of chapters (did I state that correctly, AZ-AlphaXi?). That's a far cry from the present system, where there is no quota per se.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by suzy88

My daughter rushed in 2011-12. She didn't get a bid. When she asked about informal recruitment, she was told there would be none, because everyone made their numbers! I saw the email from Panhellenic that stated that. I do not know about the other years, but I've heard that they were the same. I agree that women drop because they didn't get their favorites and that is a problem.
However, even if all women maximized their options on this campus, many women would be left out in the cold. Please don't blame the victims for the current situation at IU. They need a system where the number of bids is based on the number of women participating.

Victims is a ridiculous word to use, IMHO. Just because no one was doing Informal does NOT mean no one had spots unfilled at the end of recruitment. With supply and demand the way it is, chapters needing a few girls need only make a few calls to fill their houses. (This also belies the claim that the unhoused chapters take everyone, huh?) You are missing a huge point in all of this. Opening up recruitment to normal market forces like most campuses use will still mean that most of these unhappy women will still end up in the SAME chapters they are unhappy to be offered invitations to currently. Having more spots open won't suddenly change your desirability. It's not a huge conspiracy against these individual women. Instead, they need to look at these chapters and see them in the light that they want people to look at the PNMs that feel disenfranchised and unloved. They are doing to those chapters EXACTLY what they accuse the more desired chapters of doing to them. The only real "victims" are the women who are completely released with no options at all. If you don't take an opportunity given to you, then that is your CHOICE. No one is crying for you. We all make choices in life no matter how imperfect. Some choices are just harder to live with than others.

[pinkmama]

The bidless ones after pref, I wonder how many of those suicided or didn't maximize the options.

[Hoosierxgirl]

Just wanted to throw my two cents in here...My heart goes out to all the PNMs, the families, the actives, and alums going through this process. It's hard to believe I wrote my own IU recruitment story over 5 years ago - I lived it and I totally get all of your frustrations. Recruitment for me was absolutely heart-breaking in the end, or so I thought at the time. I had a wonderful experience up until 3 Party when I was dropped by all of my favorite chapters. I still ended up with a bid but it took me a while to warm up to my house and to my sisters (which makes me sound like an entitled brat, I know).

Then I experienced recruitment as an active. Then as a Rho Gamma. Then as a recruitment party chair. I experienced IU recruitment in so many different roles that I could write a book about it. I watched girls that our whole house loved not return for the next round (they dropped out, didn't rank us, etc.). I watched women in my Rho Gamma group pref my own chapter and not receive a bid. From any angle, this process is painful. It's not fair and it needs to change. I don't have the answers but I do know it's going to take some adjustment. I think the senior live-out policy change is HUGE (granted, my chapter already allowed seniors to live out which I really enjoyed).

Obviously the women have already filled out their pref rankings at this point but I hope that the moms and daughters out there will take this advice. Even if Bid Day doesn't turn out the way you had hoped, make the best of it. If your daughter received a bid to a house they might not have connected with, tell her to go check it out. This year makes this true more than ever - these woman barely got a glimpse of the chapters. It took me weeks to feel comfortable in my chapter and now I could never imagine being anywhere else - they knew me better than I knew myself. If your daughter does not get a bid, there are options. IU is an amazing place that has so many opportunities beyond Greek Life! Some of the women in my Rho Gamma group didn't received bids (far too many) and they went on to have an amazing time in college - I can't believe they are seniors now! I wish everyone the best of luck and know that I'm thinking about you!

[FSUZeta]

"Invite everyone back"

Those Rho Gammas should be turned into the Panhellenic office, tout de suite! What they are doing is not in the panhellenic spirit and I have a hard time believing that any one of them consider this fair play. I feel this is serious, and IU Panhellenic should be made aware of it. So if your PNM mentioned her Rho Gamma saying this, or anything similar to this, tell her to turn them in.

[Maman]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

"Invite everyone back"

Those Rho Gammas should be turned into the Panhellenic office, tout de suite! What they are doing is not in the panhellenic spirit and I have a hard time believing that any one of them consider this fair play. I feel this is serious, and IU Panhellenic should be made aware of it. So if your PNM mentioned her Rho Gamma saying this, or anything similar to this, tell her to turn them in.

From an older thread
Titchou
GreekChat Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,622


From the NPC MOI section on Recruitment Counselors:

The goals of the recruitment counseling program are to:
• Provide support, friendship and personal guidance to women participating in the recruitment process by women’s
fraternity members who are educated to represent Panhellenic attitudes and ideals.
• Provide objective and impartial counselors.
• Promote an understanding and explanation of the mutual selection process.
• Promote an understanding of the benefits of fraternity affiliation and emphasize the similarities in ideals and goals
of all women’s fraternities.
• Provide encouragement to the potential new members to continue recruitment through the Preference round during
fully structured recruitment and to accept the maximum number of invitations possible during each round of
recruitment.
• Promote membership recruitment retention and pledging by lessening disappointments and disillusionments.

My bolds added.

IU Rho Gammas (barely older than the PNMs) are trying to help these young ladies through a very difficult process. While these hearsay statement may seem anti-PanHellenic to you. I feel they were probably an awkward way of conveying objective information to the PNMs.
My daughter was given similar advice from her Rho Gamma during recruitment at a different school. (Full disclosure: they were friends before recruitment.)

ATTA BOY! to all members who volunteer to be Rho Gammas at IU. Judging by the mother's comments on this forum, think how Rho Gammas must feel at the end of the day.

[AXOrushadvisor]

I have been reading this thread and have not commented. I am a recruitment adviser and have been for many years. My daughter just navigated a competitive PAC 12 recruitment with a happy ending. Her experience was not happy all the way through the process and she had peaks and valleys loosing some of her favorites along the way. I think my daughter is street smart more so then the average girl. Looking back her opinions on the Chapters going through recruitment were almost spot on. I think that if some of these girls are not feeling a connection that's ok.

Housing. If you want the sorority experience to include housing and the majority of Chapters have housing that might be a deal breaker for some if not most of the PNM's. For my daughter and for me it would also be a deal breaker. I lived in a sorority house for 2 years. I was the BEST experience ever and I would recommend it to any one. I advise at a non housed chapter that does live in University dorms. It is a completely different experience. There are no meals, no cook and no traditions that go along with those meals including grace. Meetings are held in a classroom and not the Chapter House. You loose a lot by not having that communal shared living experience and being in a dorm or apt. is really not a replacement in my opinion

Bills. There are bills to pay with an unhoused Chapter. The budget is HUGE! What I can tell you is that unhoused and housed Chapters do the exact same thing. In fact, my Chapter does more events then my daughters Chapter and her dues are more then my girls.

Mutual Selection. It is mutual selection. With not getting into membership selection a lot of going through recruitment is who you know. Also, please consider that the Chapters have to release a certain amount of women but get 3/4 through the release list and all the women appear to be equal. At that point you have to figure out a way to weed through that next 1/4 you will release. It might be that the Chapter has predetermined what they are looking for and do it that way. They want to raise their grades and they take that 1/4 from girls who have the lowest GPA. Your girl could have missed it by .10 of a point and been the one left off the list. It is a numbers game at ANY university. We do our best but the reality is we can not take every one. Do we make mistakes? You bet, but hindsight is 20/20. Here is a really good example: 2 years ago we released a friend of a member. At the time we didn't know she was a friend because she didn't tell us! We loved this member and respected her and felt bad about it. She went through the entire process preffed 2 houses and still did not feel a connection. She dropped out of recruitment. This was the year 5 Chapters at our University didn't make quota including us and we Snap Bid her. 2 years later she is the Chapter President! Recruitment is not a science. It is a lot about the way people connect with each other much like dating is. Sometimes one feels the connection but not the other and it goes both ways. A lot of recruitment, whether we want to admit it or not, is how you look and dress and the conversations and connection.

Vent. This site is not good on letting people vent. These Moms are hurting and if you don't have a child that has gone through the process I don't think you can comment or judge what these women are feeling. It is crushing when your daughter calls you in tears. A Mom wants to fix things. It is hard to advise your kid when you are hurting because they are hurting. I do this and get it and it was the most difficult process I have ever gone through including my own recruitment experience. These women are hurting we need to let them hurt. Don't get offended when they tell us what their daughters felt about certain chapters. They don't know you and are just writing it down to work through the grieving process. I personally have not once read elitist or entitled into one of their post. I have read that a Mom is hurting and is trying to make sense of the process. We need to cut them some slack.

Indiana. This was a school my daughter had on her radar very early on. I said absolutely not. There are to many fabulous Universities that have thriving Greek systems that I can give my money to. I will protest with my money. I will tell you I have a rec girl going through the process and she has had a perfect recruitment so far. We will see after bid day. She is involved in a group that has a ton of sorority women in it. I think that has helped her along with the fact that she is the perfect package. Again, Indiana might be a place where who you know matters more then recs and how you look on paper. When someone asks me about the Greek system at Indiana I'm honest and tell them it has the most horrible process in the country and recommend if they want to go Greek to do it at another University. I also direct them to the Pan website and have them read those comments. Not many choose to go there after being educated.

[suzy88]

I wouldn't recommend turning Rho Gammas in. They are just trying to help their PNMs, even if in an inappropriate way. A lot of what happens at IU rush is not in the Panhellenic spirit. I think that is why the NPC has chosen IU to feature on their website with a message board for parents to complain about recruitment. No other college in the nation has been chosen for that honor.

http://sororityparents.com/2011/01/s...y_bloomington/