Indiana University 2014 Recruitment

[DubaiSis]

Just take a deep breath. Even the "oldest" unhoused chapter has only been around for a few years. Some girls are never going to be cool with being in the new chapter, regardless of the prospect of future housing simply because they can't draw on the known to anticipate the next 3 1/2 years of their lives. The history has not yet been written about how the unhoused chapters will function and/or their level of competitiveness.

The girls who bite down and accept what they were given have to be brave. I personally believe that all/most of the unhoused chapters will be around and thriving into the far distant future. But I can't guarantee that, and for the girl picturing her future as a sorority woman, being second class or in a struggling chapter is NOT part of the program. The best I can say is if your daughter does end up in an unhoused chapter, she should 1-make the best of it (because it can still be fantastic) and 2-work to make the chapter into what she wants it to be. Being a chapter of leaders, fun party goers, successful philanthropists, whatever it is she uses as her yardstick for success can happen based on her efforts. It seems the unhoused chapters are going to be LARGE no matter what, so at least struggling to make numbers every year isn't their issue; it's conquering an impression of lower quality members. THAT can be changed by even just a few members making a huge splash. Best of luck to your daughter an all of the other rushees who are having a rough night.

[sigmagirl2000]

I hope all goes as well as possible for these PNMs and their families and support systems.
I also find this house thing interesting - Is the difference in dues for housed and unhorsed chapters significant?

[cinder1965]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

Just take a deep breath. Even the "oldest" unhoused chapter has only been around for a few years. Some girls are never going to be cool with being in the new chapter, regardless of the prospect of future housing simply because they can't draw on the known to anticipate the next 3 1/2 years of their lives. The history has not yet been written about how the unhoused chapters will function and/or their level of competitiveness.

The girls who bite down and accept what they were given have to be brave. I personally believe that all/most of the unhoused chapters will be around and thriving into the far distant future. But I can't guarantee that, and for the girl picturing her future as a sorority woman, being second class or in a struggling chapter is NOT part of the program. The best I can say is if your daughter does end up in an unhoused chapter, she should 1-make the best of it (because it can still be fantastic) and 2-work to make the chapter into what she wants it to be. Being a chapter of leaders, fun party goers, successful philanthropists, whatever it is she uses as her yardstick for success can happen based on her efforts. It seems the unhoused chapters are going to be LARGE no matter what, so at least struggling to make numbers every year isn't their issue; it's conquering an impression of lower quality members. THAT can be changed by even just a few members making a huge splash. Best of luck to your daughter an all of the other rushees who are having a rough night.

Great post.

[Mom64]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I just saw your post about your daughter going to the last party and making a go at it. Good job.

None of us dismiss the feelings of hurt that PNMs feel in this process, but we also know that for many people the issue is that they feel "too good" for the groups they have left. If you start looking at some of the posts in this thread wondering how groups could reject this PNM or that PNM, it comes down to a value judgement that the women in the unhoused groups are somehow "less than." There are many reasons why women are released and don't make the cut. Is it fair? I don't know. Is it fair to say a PNM is any more worthy than the chapters she thinks she's too good for? They may not be the ones she had her heart set on, but honestly they may be the ones best suited for her in the end. There are many parents that honestly can't step away from the friend and commiserator role long enough to be the voice of reason for their daughters.
I am very glad you were able to play that role for your daughter. I hope it all works out for her. IU is brutal. There is no doubt about it. Please don't take my last post as an indictment of you as a parent but as a suggestion for the situation. Like I said, if these women with only unhoused groups left on their list want to be Greek, this is their only chance. It's time to make lemonade out of lemons. Having a mom who can put that into perspective is a real gift.

The unhoused sororities are viewed as "less than", the PNMs all basically know to rank them last as getting an invite back is easier.

I am tired of hearing of this mutual selection process. It is not! PNMs rank their choices but are basically given what they get. Why should they have to make "lemonade out of lemons", they are better than this.

In my daughter's case she received invites back from #18, #20 and #21. Guess what, she did a pretty good job of ranking them as after revisiting them she felt no connection and decided to opt out of the process. Frankly, I think these houses may "take what they can get" (there are bills to be paid) which is why they end up with a somewhat "hodgepodge" of a membership.

She has friends who thought they were "top tier" and were quite upset to get invites back from houses they thought were less than that, these were houses my daughter would have loved to have been a part of and ranked accordingly. She is sad to hear them complaining of their invites to these houses and some were her top choices. One of my daughter's friends told me that she found one house to be snobby today but it's really her only choice so she'll take it if she can get it.

And for all of those who feel that they can call our posts "entitled" or "snobby" I dare you to spend one minute if not the many hours we have spent consoling our daughters and reassuring them of their self-worth.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Mom64

The unhoused sororities are viewed as "less than", the PNMs all basically know to rank them last as getting an invite back is easier, Rho Gams have told them as such.

I am tired of hearing of this mutual selection process. It is not! PNMs rank their choices but are basically given what they get. Why should they have to make "lemonade out of lemons", they are better than this.

In my daughter's case she received invites back from #18, #20 and #21. Guess what, she did a pretty good job of ranking them as after revisiting them she felt no connection and decided to opt out of the process. Frankly, I think these houses may "take what they can get" (there are bills to be paid) which is why they end up with a somewhat "hodgepodge" of a membership.

She has friends who thought they were "top tier" and were quite upset to get invites back from houses they thought were less than that, these were houses my daughter would have loved to have been a part of and ranked accordingly. She is sad to hear them complaining of their invites to these houses and some were her top choices. One of my daughter's friends told me that she found one house to be snobby today but it's really her only choice so she'll take it if she can get it.

And for all of those who feel that they can call our posts "entitled" or "snobby" I dare you to spend one minute if not the many hours we have spent consoling our daughters and reassuring them of their self-worth.

What I've highlighted above DOES sound entitled (if you mean that they're better than the chapters that invited them back). I'm going to ignore most of your post which insinuates that some of these chapters "take what they can get" and are essentially made up of the "losers" of the Greek system and say this:

We all understand that you're frustrated, but please don't lash out at us because of that. Keep in mind that we're all Greek here, and we're each members of one of the 26 NPC sororities. We hate reading stories where PNMs go bidless just as much as we hate the term "bottom-tier sorority." We feel for both the PNMs and the sororities involved. We want PNMs to fall in love with the sorority from which the receive a bid, whether that's on bid day or years later.

The situation sucks. And in every recruitment situation at every school there are disappointed PNMs. It doesn't get easier to hear, as all of us have to imagine that at least once, that disappointed PNM received a bid from our sorority. And we each love our sorority and we want to share our sisterhood and have others love it as much as we do.

I hope that your daughter can make it through this with her head held high and a bid in hand.

[TAMUAlphaPhi]

Originally Posted by cinder1965

Having just gone through this barbaric rush last year with my step daughter, I am cutting the moms here a lot of slack. What some may hear as entitled, others hear as a parent just hurting for their child.

And, the reality is, the culture at IU is that housed chapters are more desirable. I am quite sure none of us agree with that, think it is fair or endorse it. Let's not hate the player, but hate the game.

This!

Housed IU sororities create a heightened sense of desirability by most requiring all sisters to live in to "get the full sorority experience" (or for whatever reason -- I'm not affiliated with IU, so won't pretend to understand the history and tradition). It's really not surprising that the PNMs would, therefore, feel that the unhoused sororities offer a lesser experience.

The way I see it, we've created the vision of the "perfect" sorority experience. Then, when that dream is shattered, we act surprised or offended that these young ladies are disappointed -- or worse, we pile on the already bruised ego and tell them that they're acting like they feel they're "too good" for the unhoused groups.

PNMs and moms, take some time to grieve the lost dream and work through your feelings. Then, make the best of the hand you've been dealt. If that means being in an unhoused chapter when you've always dreamed of living with your sister, I'm confident you'll find that the experience can be very fulfilling. If you're not lucky enough to get a bid, jump into the rest of the college experience with both feet and forge your own path. No one (including the PNM who gets her #1 choice) should let recruitment define them; it's just one of life's experiences.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Mom64

Frankly, I think these houses may "take what they can get" (there are bills to be paid) which is why they end up with a somewhat "hodgepodge" of a membership.

Well, actually, without a house...there AREN'T bills to be paid.

[DubaiSis]

You're right that the mutual selection thing is overblown. But the fact is these are private organizations who get to choose whoever they want for their groups. There is not an objective list of criteria where the girls are theoretically lined up like the NFL draft. The mutual part in that is that the rushee gets to take what she gets. or not.

At IU that problem is exacerbated because not only do the chapters decide who to invite into membership, but they also pre-determine the size of the chapter they want. At virtually ever other school with an NPC system, the size of the chapter is determined by the number of girls going through and completing the process.

And seriously, your alternative is to send your daughter to a school with a less traumatizing rush process. And hell, Alabama is less traumatizing. So ANYWHERE is easier to deal with than IU.

[Mom64]

I do not think anyone should have to make lemonade out of lemons. If PNMs feel this way towards a chapter they shouldn't accept a bid, the chapters deserve more than this.

As far as "taking what they can get". Why are PNMs advised to rank some chapters last because they invite almost everyone back. My daughter visited three chapters, and her observation was that it was a disjointed membership in each and none which she connected. She removed herself from the process. This was the right thing to do for her and no house should settle on a membership comprised of pledges who settled because they had no other choice.

The only real choice in this "mutual selection" process for the PNMs is to decide whether they want to settle for a chapter they felt no connection with or forgo Greek Life and yet they are criticized for this.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by Mom64

In my daughter's case she received invites back from #18, #20 and #21. Guess what, she did a pretty good job of ranking them as after revisiting them she felt no connection and decided to opt out of the process. Frankly, I think these houses may "take what they can get" (there are bills to be paid) which is why they end up with a somewhat "hodgepodge" of a membership.

...

And for all of those who feel that they can call our posts "entitled" or "snobby" I dare you to spend one minute if not the many hours we have spent consoling our daughters and reassuring them of their self-worth.

That bolded statement is why you sound "entitled" or "snobby". It is, frankly, judgmental at best, and it is your opinion. It has nothing to do with consoling a disappointed child. I think perhaps you may wish to step away from the keyboard for a while.

[DubaiSis]

I wouldn't call it criticism so much (although I can appreciate you would) but more of an analysis of the situation. The sororities all have more than 100 members and some significantly more than 100 members. The rushees meet somewhere around 15 members during the entire process. They do TRY to match members to rushees of similar experience and interest, but especially with a new chapter this is pretty hard to do considering the massive number of rushees. We say you should give it a shot because more than likely if she gave it a shot she would make friends and be happy. Many GCers came from struggling chapters and they find it very frustrating that a girl will for whatever reason not give THAT chapter a chance. They know that they had a fantastic sisterhood and all of the great memories that the top chapters had. To hear a rushee who has met MAYBE 10% of the chapter say the group is an incohesive mess is heartbreaking. BUT, being in THAT chapter is not right for everyone. You have to have serious nerve to take on the unknown.

Best of luck to your daughter. IU has a lot to offer beyond sorority membership. She'll be fine, and hopefully won't spend the next 40 years of her life bitter. And yes, I have friends in their 40's and 50's who are bitter about sorority women.

And to the above, no, those unhoused chapters DON'T have to take everyone they can get. This is the misconception of the large pledge classes. They still have to make cuts according to RFM just as all of the housed chapters do. The way RFM works at IU (as I understand it), the chapters pre-determine the pledge class size. Then they are given a number they have to reach after each round of rush by an outside person. Yes, their cuts aren't as stringent as the most competitive chapters who have pre-determined a smaller pledge class size, but they still have to cut to get to their numbers.

[ADPiEE]

It almost sounds as though a lottery system may have been the best plan this year?

Originally Posted by Mom64

Frankly, I think these houses may "take what they can get" (there are bills to be paid) which is why they end up with a somewhat "hodgepodge" of a membership.

I know emotions are high right now. I'm a mom of a daughter too and I can only share what I would/will tell my daughter when the time comes:

"Sorority membership really is a lifetime gift no matter what chapter offers you a bid. First, you had to work hard and make grades just to get accepted into college. Then you had to make the grade cut just to go through recruitment. Then you had to make to cuts just to be offered a bid. That puts you in a pretty small group of elite (hate that word) girls."

I would really discourage my daughter from dropping out of recruitment and encourage her to at least try her new member period. She can't see that far into the future but, as a mom, you can. I think you said you were in a sorority? You know the lifelong friendships you've made and the benefits of sorority life. I think these benefits can be found in the majority of chapters of every sorority regardless of popularity on campus.

[Mom64]

She is not bitter at all, just disappointed. I think that asking all these PNMs to give it a shot is asking more of them than of the houses. Most of the houses didn't give them a shot.

And while you criticize a rushee who has met maybe 10% of the chapter for making a conclusion, why can no one admit that having only 10% of their chapter making a conclusion about a rushee any different. And all of these sororities who do not invite certain PNMs back, isn't it because they feel they are not the right fit or not good enough for them,why do the PNMs get criticized for feeling this way about certain houses?

Again, no she is not bitter, she is a bit anxious about who she will live with next year, the changes in her social life, etc. but she is a strong, smart young woman who will do quite well with or without the sorority membership.

[Dtjb]

Originally Posted by Sigmapsimom

Don't assume that we moms are not "doing our jobs." I have been on the phone with my daughter for hours today talking and texting. I encouraged her to go to the parties today, which she did. We've had the life isn't fair discussion - talked about sisterhood. We have discussed pros/cons, scenarios, what ifs - you name it. I've been honest with her and told her it is unlikely she will get in a sorority if she doesn't do this. I can't tell her to rank them. That's entirely her decision. Mine is only to advise.

Don't discount their feelings and make comments they should be grateful. They're 18 year old girls who had certain dreams of sorority life and they are mourning those dreams and that's ok. As someone said earlier, "Cry, eat chocolate, cry some more." It's up to them and only them to decide if they want to try it out or not. By no means, should anyone feel that they have to accept a bid just because it's the only option, even if it doesn't feel right to them. I think those not connected to IU do not understand the house culture of Greek Life. You don't know what it's like to be on a campus with many Greeks and GDI's alike putting down these 2 sororities. You are a second class citizen. It's incredibly unfair and some of it is false, but let's face it the opinions and acceptance of our peers at that age is incredibly important. And one last thing, even if she did rank them there is still no guarantee of a bid. That is the last thing she needs is to be rejected yet again. No idea what to expect from them.

How do you answer this question sent to me today by my daughter as a text?
"Mom, I'm not strange. I'm not mean. I'm involved. I like the same things. I am girly and classy and fun. I take care of myself and I pride myself in looking good. I know I would be a great fit in several of the houses. I just don't know what else I could have done. It's all I saw in my college vision since forever" And let's face it, this is happening to many. many girls, not just mine.

Please don't dismiss what these girls are going through. I think the biggest piece of the puzzle here is they all know the system is set up for many to fail and it seems so arbitrary, but they just don't think it's going to happen to them and when it does it's devastating. They hear stories about how you have to "game the system" but they don't know how to do that.

I already apologized for wrongly using the word "club" but feel free to keep throwing that around.

Originally Posted by Mom64

The unhoused sororities are viewed as "less than", the PNMs all basically know to rank them last as getting an invite back is easier, Rho Gams have told them as such.

I am tired of hearing of this mutual selection process. It is not! PNMs rank their choices but are basically given what they get. Why should they have to make "lemonade out of lemons", they are better than this.

In my daughter's case she received invites back from #18, #20 and #21. Guess what, she did a pretty good job of ranking them as after revisiting them she felt no connection and decided to opt out of the process. Frankly, I think these houses may "take what they can get" (there are bills to be paid) which is why they end up with a somewhat "hodgepodge" of a membership.

She has friends who thought they were "top tier" and were quite upset to get invites back from houses they thought were less than that, these were houses my daughter would have loved to have been a part of and ranked accordingly. She is sad to hear them complaining of their invites to these houses and some were her top choices. One of my daughter's friends told me that she found one house to be snobby today but it's really her only choice so she'll take it if she can get it.

And for all of those who feel that they can call our posts "entitled" or "snobby" I dare you to spend one minute if not the many hours we have spent consoling our daughters and reassuring them of their self-worth.

Boy...I have to pipe in... I went to IU and went through the process and was Greek and so I do KNOW what it is. I did it and lived it and it's a lot. It is mutual in the sense that the rankings have to match up. It sucks if they don't but she does get to rank her choices. Sounds like she might be making decisions based on "reputations" and "what people think" and that's her prerogative, but not the sororities' fault. I have a family member going through rush at this very moment and so I'm also aware of the grueling process (gotten all the texts, etc) for which women can choose to take personally and measure their self-worth by it, or understand it's a lot of timing, luck, and chemistry. Women do this for lifelong friendships and sisterhood, not a house, not a "reputation", not a label, not just to wear certain letters. No one wants moms to hurt for their daughters, but I've read unbelievable things in here...one mom saying her daughter won't get a bid bc of religious affiliation (not true), one saying if her daughter didn't feel it went great at a party assume the house didn't either....this is bad advice. Ultimately, women have to follow their heart and if that's the reason they don't pledge a particular place, then so be it. But if the reasons are all this other garbage, these girls really need to be looking inside themselves more.

[HQWest]

Thing is - this is deferred recruitment, so it was not really just 45 minutes to make an impression. PNMs had the fall semester to meet sorority women if they didn't know any already. The problem is they fall in love with some chapters or the idea of living in the house, etc.

Under this particularly harsh short recruitment schedule, whatever the PNMs thought of the chapters during the parties, It may have been even more important who knew who before college even started.