The Murder of Trayvon Martin

[LaneSig]

George Zimmerman is suing NBC. He alleges that they doctored the 911 call. According to records, the dispatcher asked Zimmerman if the other person (Trayvon Martin) was "white, black, or hispanic". Zimmerman replied that the "He looks black". NBC News aired the call as Zimmerman saying, ""looks like he's up to no good. He looks black." editing out the dispatcher's inquiry.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...an-mark-o-mara

[TonyB06]

I realize this is probably the most watched case in this guys' legal career, but he needs to hit reset.

Breathe. His modulation is all over the place (spastic, almost). He's repeating himself and, to be at the outset of his remarks, is waaay too amped up.

[Mizeree I2K]

The prosecutor didn't have any of his shit together at all.

[MaryPoppins]

Still, I will be very upset if this Defendant goes free or gets a light sentence. He is an example of part of what has gone wrong with our country since the rise of the neoconservatives.

[Kevin]

I want those burden of proof posters for my own use. Those are awesome. I know a lot of folks want Zimmerman to be guilty. I haven't followed the trial all that closely, but that said, I haven't seen anything which proves him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I did watch some of the state's forensics expert testify. He was utterly unprofessional. His conduct might raise the jury's concern about the partiality of the evidence derived from the autopsy.

There's been a lot of evidence introduced, but nothing which proves anything by the burden the state's required to prove.

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I haven't followed the trial all that closely, but that said, I haven't seen anything which proves him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I did watch some of the state's forensics expert testify. He was utterly unprofessional. His conduct might raise the jury's concern about the partiality of the evidence derived from the autopsy.

There's been a lot of evidence introduced, but nothing which proves anything by the burden the state's required to prove.

Well, it's sad that the State didn't put their best foot forward here. I believe in my heart that this is a wrongful death and if he walks it will be just awful (Now you see why I don't practice criminal law.) You know Florida put that woman away who fired two warning shots at an aggressor/intruder and didn't hit/harm anyone. So glad I don't live in Florida. I would not accept any amount of cash to live there again.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by MaryPoppins

Well, it's sad that the State didn't put their best foot forward here. I believe in my heart that this is a wrongful death and if he walks it will be just awful (Now you see why I don't practice criminal law.) You know Florida put that woman away who fired two warning shots at an aggressor/intruder and didn't hit/harm anyone. So glad I don't live in Florida. I would not accept any amount of cash to live there again.

I practice criminal as part of my practice and really enjoy it. Around here, the ADAs, at least in my experience are extremely reasonable and charge and prosecute crimes appropriately.

As far as this being a wrongful death case, all they have to prove is a preponderance of the evidence, so kind of like OJ, Zimmerman won't do any time, but he may end up with a big 'ol non-bankruptable punitive judgement hanging around his neck for a good long time.

[summer_gphib]

I'm not so sure that Mark O'Mara's video was as effective as he was hoping for, but overal I think he's presenting a solid case. I think the prosecution came off badly in their closing argument-- shrieking and presenting too fast. Mark O'Mara is coming off (at least to me) as calm and confident, which should inspire confidence in the jury.

[DubaiSis]

I haven't been following it closely either (too depressing to see what has become of our society), but I thought the note from the judge that she will allow manslaughter is a flag to the jurors that that's what they should do. While I don't see the kid as the boy scout they were originally portraying him as, I don't think he merited what he got either. And to me that kind of sounds like manslaughter. You know, me and my JD degree so take that for what it's worth.

[Kevin]

I don't see how it could be manslaughter.

If Zimmerman was acting in self defense, he's not guilty.

If he approached Martin and intended only to accost him and they got into a physical altercation in which Martin got the upper hand, that's still self defense (no duty to retreat in Florida), he's not guilty.

If he approached Martin and intended only to accost him and they got into a physical altercation in which he got the upper hand, he then took his sidearm and shot Martin in the heart, he's guilty of murder. In most states premeditation can happen in an instant and it takes deliberation and thought and purpose to pull a gun, aim and shoot, and shooting in the heart shows intent to kill, so he'd be guilty of murder.

If Zimmerman assaulted Martin and the fight went either for Martin or for Zimmeman and Zimmerman shot Martin while committing the battery, that's murder or felony murder.

I just don't see a scenario where manslaughter can happen.

[WhiteRose1912]

Originally Posted by Kevin

If he approached Martin and intended only to accost him and they got into a physical altercation in which Martin got the upper hand, that's still self defense (no duty to retreat in Florida), he's not guilty.

But wouldn't Martin have just been defending himself under the same law? Zimmerman was the one chasing after Martin.

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I don't see how it could be manslaughter.

If Zimmerman was acting in self defense, he's not guilty.

If he approached Martin and intended only to accost him and they got into a physical altercation in which Martin got the upper hand, that's still self defense (no duty to retreat in Florida), he's not guilty.

If he approached Martin and intended only to accost him and they got into a physical altercation in which he got the upper hand, he then took his sidearm and shot Martin in the heart, he's guilty of murder. In most states premeditation can happen in an instant and it takes deliberation and thought and purpose to pull a gun, aim and shoot, and shooting in the heart shows intent to kill, so he'd be guilty of murder.

If Zimmerman assaulted Martin and the fight went either for Martin or for Zimmeman and Zimmerman shot Martin while committing the battery, that's murder or felony murder.

I just don't see a scenario where manslaughter can happen.

what are the conditions for proving manslaughter?

[Kevin]

It would of course depend on the sort of physical altercation. I speculate the 'no duty to retreat' laws might lead to situations where both parties are justified in using deadly force.

Then there's who threw the first punch, how the fight escalated, etc. Even if Zimmerman accosted Martin, the state has to prove that Zimmerman didn't act in self defense beyond a reasonable doubt.

With evidence like the state has, they should probably have never filed charges. They did, maybe that works for a conviction. We'll know in a little bit.

[Kevin]

I was off on my elements. My mistake... I only know Oklahoma law anyhow.

I think manslaughter would work in Oklahoma. No idea about Florida.

Here are the Oklahoma Uniform Jury Instructions for manslaughter:

OUJI-CR 4-94

MANSLAUGHTER IN THE FIRST DEGREE

BY MISDEMEANOR-MANSLAUGHTER - ELEMENTS

No person may be convicted of manslaughter in the first degree unless the State has proved beyond a reasonable doubt each element of the crime. These elements are:

First, the death of a human;

Second, occurring as a direct result of an act or event which happened in the commission of a misdemeanor;

Third, caused by [the defendant(s)]/[a person engaged with the defendant(s)] while in the commission of the misdemeanor;

Fourth, the elements of the [Specify Underlying Misdemeanor] defendant(s) is/are alleged to have been in the commission of are as follows:

[Give Elements of Underlying Misdemeanor]

The misdemeanor could be assault and battery.

[AGDee]

My dad's wife has been watching every minute of the trial on TV. She seems to think there is no way Zimmerman is guilty. She also said that the media is reporting things very differently than they are happening in the court room and she is astonished at how inaccurate the media has been. I can't think of the specific example she gave, but she said the testimony said one thing and they reported the exact opposite in the media.

They also live very close to Sanford and she said "they" are recommending that people not go far from home because they will have about an hour notice when the verdict has been reached and they should not leave their houses at that point due to concerns about riots if Zimmerman is found not guilty.

This is her facebook post about it... I can't even call them right now because she'll rant for an hour about this. Can we say obsessed? She never should have retired...

"OK. Zimmerman trial update. S*** and I have been watching the trial "gavel to gavel"
(remember, spelling is not my strong point). And to get it out of the way, it is in the upper 90's in Florida so I am NOT leaving the house. Will be back out in November, anyway, we will then watch the news and look at each other and wonder if the "news" people are watching the same trail we are.
We have watched as the "prosecution" witnesses have either been discredited or wound up being a stronger witness for the defense. One witness has done an interview after saying on the 911 call that she didn't want to give her name because she didn't want to be a witness, yea, right and one sold pics that her husband took to the media.
The young women who was on the phone with Trayvon, has a lawyer provided to her by the attorney for Trayvon's parents. Trayvon's mother was also in with the prosecutor during this women deposition.
The 1st day, the lady from the Sanford police dept. told how she wanted GZ to join the neighborhood patrol with uniform shirt and car with amber light, but he declined, so much for the wanabe cop.
2 of the witnesses, the hysterical cat lady and the one today who claimed she yelled at them and saw GZ on top, lived about 200 feet down the lane and this on a very dark and rainy night. Also had to look around a column and past fences.
So, bottom line, do not believe what you hear on the news tonight.
Big Flash, they have an agenda

We will continue to watch, at least until the grandkids get here and will do updates if anyone is interested, By the way, the most credible witness so far is a realtor."