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[TSteven]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I've talked to many Sigma Chi's from several campuses. They are absolutely sickened at what the HQ is doing to them. No one said that they would give up ritual. No one said they were giving up Creed or Standard, it would just have different National Headquarters and so on.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

There have been talks of a Sigma Chi split and if I'm not mistaken KA and SAE as well. It'll be awhile though, insurance absolutely kills. Who knows. As the divide is assuredly growing stronger we may see this in the next 20-30 years.

I highly doubt any self respecting Southerner - especially members of "old row" chapters and or a chapter where one's Daddy and Great Grand Daddy are members and family and tradition matter - would entertain splitting from their fraternity just to join up with other "like minded" souls to form some "new" fraternity. Frankly, it would be disrespectful and insulting to their heritage. And besides, the old boy (girl) network is alive and well and anyone of means will still belong to the more established and respected chapters. Not some nouveau/fly by night (I can't get my way so I'm leaving) fraternity.

Now if some yahoo feels that they aren't man enough to make things happen either locally or on an inter/national level, then they shouldn't let that solid oak door slam them on their turncoat butt when they leave.

[shinerbock]

Well, we've got a fairly good setup at the moment. Nationals doesn't ever send anyone to look after us, and they never attempt to punish our transgressions...We pretty much ignore things like their pledge program and what not, so thats not too big a deal. This issue comes to the forefront most every year at convention/leadership conference, when we are REQUIRED to send so many people. Now that in itself isn't bad, except that we have to generally pay several hundred dollars for every person we send. However, when we get there, we often have to teach the classes. The last conference I went to was a east coast regional conference, in which I taught ALL the pledge training classes, our treasurer taught the large majority of the financial sessions, and our rush chairmen (we have 2) led the "recruitment" sessions. I just find it pretty unnerving that our nationals will go against what we do all year, by promoting diversity, anti-"hazing" and making our fraternity more acceptable to people from all walks of life. However, come convention time, the chapters nationals hate all year are suddenly put up on a pedestal, simply because we actually have large memberships, large operating budgets, etc...

[Drolefille]

Plus, if you broke off, you'd no longer be entitled to the letters, ritual etc. of your former fraternity.

[Elephant Walk]

I highly doubt any self respecting Southerner - especially members of "old row" chapters and or a chapter where one's Daddy and Great Grand Daddy are members and family and tradition matter - would entertain splitting from their fraternity just to join up with other "like minded" souls to form some "new" fraternity. Frankly, it would be disrespectful and insulting to their heritage. And besides, the old boy (girl) network is alive and well and anyone of means will still belong to the more established and respected chapters. Not some nouveau/fly by night (I can't get my way so I'm leaving) fraternity.

But the point that was being made is that THIS IS NOT THE SAME FRATERNITY! The National Headquarters have ruined everything beautiful about all of our fraternities. Most alumni realize this and are just as angry as the students.

ETA: I don't think you have to explain "old row" to me.

[tunatartare]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

But the point that was being made is that THIS IS NOT THE SAME FRATERNITY! The National Headquarters have ruined everything beautiful about all of our fraternities. Most alumni realize this and are just as angry as the students.

ETA: I don't think you have to explain "old row" to me.

Would your most prominent alumni that you've mentioned in the past (senators, millionaires, public figures, etc.) be willing to leave the fraternity to form a local? If not, then starting a local would not be advantageous because it might lack the connections and networking that your fraternity currently provides. Also, while your alumni might be angry at your nationals in theory, they may not be happy if you were to break off from them and form your own chapter instead of figuring out a way to solve the problem.

[shinerbock]

I think ours would actually, because the majority of the corporate execs, politicians, public figures, came from southern chapters, and really only identify with their chapter. Of all the ones I've head contact with, they talk about being at whatever school they went to, and not at all about the national org.

[kddani]

If you or your alumni don't like how your fraternity is being run, then do something to change it instead of whining about it.

Just looking at Sigma Chi's leadership on their webpage- out of the five grand officers listed, at least one is southern- he went to Baylor.

Any able-minded decent business man would know that the changes being made to the greek system the past decade or so have been essential to keeping the fraternities in existence.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

We could get out alumni to break away no problem. Raising our dues to pay for insurance could be possible, although ironic, considering our dues are probably the highest of all chapters in the nation.

FIJI at Texas has done this. I am not totally sure of the whole story, but something happened with nationals years back and the UT chapter split away and is now known solely as FIJI. They don't use Phi Gam whatsoever and you won't see their letters anywhere. Their dues and insurance did go up significantly which sucks, but they are now considered probobly one of the top FIJI chapters in the country. Their dues are pretty damn high though, almost double what everyone else here on campus is, even the top tier fraternities.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

But the point that was being made is that THIS IS NOT THE SAME FRATERNITY! The National Headquarters have ruined everything beautiful about all of our fraternities. Most alumni realize this and are just as angry as the students.

Well duh! Fraternities evolve.

Now from your point of view, it appears that this may not be in the best interest *for you* and for certain other members. Again, if this is the case, then by all means quit and form your own club. No one is forcing you - collective you - to remain. Besides, there are many other organizations - fraternal and otherwise - that are available for networking, friendship and what have you. So knock yourself out and go have fun.

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

ETA: I don't think you have to explain "old row" to me.

That is good to know. I sometimes wonder.

[shinerbock]

I understand the reasonability of changing our national fraternity, but we're vastly outnumbered. Its hard to fight an organization which strives for political correctness in every area. Not to mention, I doubt a CEO or congressman is willing to put himself out there for the issues we have problems with.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by macallan25

FIJI at Texas has done this. I am not totally sure of the whole story, but something happened with nationals years back and the UT chapter split away and is now known solely as FIJI. They don't use Phi Gam whatsoever and you won't see their letters anywhere. Their dues and insurance did go up significantly which sucks, but they are now considered probobly one of the top FIJI chapters in the country. Their dues are pretty damn high though, almost double what everyone else here on campus is, even the top tier fraternities.

How could they be a top Phi Gamma Delta chapter? If they split from Phi Gamma Delta and are known soley as FIJI, then they are a "one and only" chapter as it were.

[kddani]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I understand the reasonability of changing our national fraternity, but we're vastly outnumbered. Its hard to fight an organization which strives for political correctness in every area. Not to mention, I doubt a CEO or congressman is willing to put himself out there for the issues we have problems with.

Money talks. If you guys contribute so much money, you have more power. If your alumni aren't involved and making their voices heard, running for office or volunteering, it's no one's fault but theirs.

What you're complaining about within the fraternity is applicable to society in general (i.e. the political correctness).

[shinerbock]

It is applicable yes. Unfortunately our alumni give most of their money to a fund set up that nationals does not recieve. We don't generally contribute to the national fraternity, unless it is solely philanthropy.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by macallan25

FIJI at Texas has done this. I am not totally sure of the whole story, but something happened with nationals years back and the UT chapter split away and is now known solely as FIJI. They don't use Phi Gam whatsoever and you won't see their letters anywhere. Their dues and insurance did go up significantly which sucks, but they are now considered probobly one of the top FIJI chapters in the country. Their dues are pretty damn high though, almost double what everyone else here on campus is, even the top tier fraternities.

Comment and question (probably retorical)

The insurance and dues thing is one that is very hard to get undergrad membership to focus on. The rates for a large local would have to be astronomical -- with that reflected in the dues which seems to be true in the case you mention.

I would think that Phi Gamma Delta would have a copyright (or would it be a service mark?) on the "word" FIJI. I wonder how the breakaway chapter gets away with using it.