Son of AGDee's College Search Thread

[AGDee]

So, my boy really liked K College a bunch. That visit just muddied the waters even more! Yikes!

[Sciencewoman]

It seems it will come down to: small, nurturing environment, or big-time, bright lights where you have to fend for yourself more.

[AGDee]

It may come down to money, honestly.

[Xylochick216]

When I spent a semester abroad, a large group of Kalamazoo students were in the same program I was. Their entire collegiate experience seemed so unique and fascinating. I love that they really emphasized study abroad and research at the same time. I still keep in touch with many of them and they have gone on to have interesting careers.

[AGDee]

It really is a small, very nurturing environment where each student is kind of expected to study abroad (80% do - the other 20% almost always engage in a "study away" experience in the US). They had an alumni panel yesterday with alumni from every decade who are all doing very interesting things including one who went to grad school and got Master's degrees from both Dartmouth and Columbia. It is the only colllege visit we attended where they had an open house with the department heads from each academic department at tables so students could talk with each one. Halo asked each of the department heads from his areas of interest what kind of research their departments were doing.

He attended a class, which is the first time he has chosen to do that, although other schools did offer the opportunity, they didn't make it as easy. He went to an Intro Sociology class that a girl he went to high school with is in. He participated in the class discussion and enjoyed it. What he really enjoyed is that every person in the class participated in the discussion. He said it was so refreshing because in his high school, only a handful of kids ever voluntarily participate.

They had a catered lunch, which was disappointing, because we didn't get to check out the cafeteria.

Since it was Easter weekend and we were already there, the girl from our town asked if we could give her a ride home. She had been planning on taking the train. We happily drove her home. She was in Hypo's section in the band and had hung out with Halo's group before she graduated so we know her pretty well. She gave Halo more insight into student organizations, events that happen on campus, and things like that. She talked a lot about a poetry class she is in now and how a lot of the poets they have studied actually came to class.

I did talk to the Director of Admissions and Financial Aid and explained that Halo is down to K and Michigan but that Michigan's aid part of the package is much lower in loans and family contribution. K's Lux Esto merit scholarship brings the cost down to the base price of Michigan but the aid packages after that are really disparate. He said I could call the financial aid office and talk with them to make sure they have the all the information they need but he did say they don't match packages. I mentioned during that conversation he was a Lux Esto scholarship recipient because that is their highest scholarship awarded.

The massive emphasis on Study Abroad is NOT a huge selling point to Halo. It isn't something he's that interested in but I suspect in this environment, he'd get used to the idea and perhaps embrace it when it is time for him to do it.

K has a pre-orientation program called LandSea where they spend a week backpacking, a week canoeing, two days of "reflection and service" where they can either spend it solo camping or doing a service project and then they also learn technical climbing. They do this in the Adirondacks and this is right up his alley but it is also very expensive so I told him we'd have to figure out how to fund it- through graduation gifts or if he gets a JOB (hard push at this point that Halo needs to work this summer).

So, kids from K do get into Ivy grad schools. Kids from K have many opportunities to work with their professors on research. Kids from K get a lot of nurturing in their early years and a lot of assistance in setting up their study abroad.

There are cons- the price, for one, if they don't work with us. If they do work with us, will it just be for the first year? Or will they continue to be more generous in subsequent years? That will be an unknown. One dining hall and a sandwich shop as opposed to 25 places where you can use your meal card on campus- including the safe bets of Taco Bell, Subway and Wendy's. As a D3 school, there isn't a big football program with lots of school spirit as you find in the Big 10.

We visit Michigan on Monday. He has been accepted to the Residential College which is a smaller living/learning community. Many of their RC classes are also smaller, in the same dorm where they live and there is a very strong language and fine arts component.

[Sciencewoman]

Doesn't the RC require that two year language immersion program? When Generallygreek was checking it out, it seems like you were supposed to eat with your language group for lunch most days. I'm wondering about that vs. not really caring too much about studying abroad at K? Generallygreek was also interested in the RC in theory, but then she decided that wasn't really her cup of tea. It always had the "hippie" vibe when I was there, and we got the impression that hadn't changed too much, from a classmate who was also interested and stayed overnight.

Not to muddy the waters too much, but my neighbor growing up went to Albion and then got his MBA at Northwestern. He's a year younger than me. He's now on Wall Street, in a BIG job with Bank of America. The general consensus is that he is the most successful member of his graduating class. The people I know who are Albion grads are quite successful. Just throwing that in there.

[AGDee]

Haha. Albion has just mucked up too badly with the admissions process and now the financial aid process (telling us we need to submit the FAFSA now when we submitted two months ago). Their lack of organization has turned him off completely.

Halo likes that hippie vibe (what he loved about both Oberlin and Brown!) and wants to do Latin for the language immersion. I believe they have two lunch tables a week as part of that. There are a couple girls from our high school in RC now and he has been talking with both of them. Who picks Latin? My nerdy son. He said he loves the paradox that it is a dead language yet its use is so entrenched into our society.

[amIblue?]

Lol at the Latin. I loved studying Latin, but I can not imagine trying to speak it at lunch! (The best part of it to me when I studied it was that I could learn to read and write it without all of that pesky embarrassing conversational stuff you have to do with non-dead languages.)

[HQWest]

It depends on what area he is into as well. Im willing to bet that most of the 20% at K that doesn't study abroad or studies in a different state are in physical sciences. It is really hard to fit them and research into the abroad programs. Can't beat U of M for good ol' hard core sciences.

[pomplemousse12]

Originally Posted by AGDee

It really is a small, very nurturing environment where each student is kind of expected to study abroad (80% do - the other 20% almost always engage in a "study away" experience in the US). They had an alumni panel yesterday with alumni from every decade who are all doing very interesting things including one who went to grad school and got Master's degrees from both Dartmouth and Columbia. It is the only colllege visit we attended where they had an open house with the department heads from each academic department at tables so students could talk with each one. Halo asked each of the department heads from his areas of interest what kind of research their departments were doing.

He attended a class, which is the first time he has chosen to do that, although other schools did offer the opportunity, they didn't make it as easy. He went to an Intro Sociology class that a girl he went to high school with is in. He participated in the class discussion and enjoyed it. What he really enjoyed is that every person in the class participated in the discussion. He said it was so refreshing because in his high school, only a handful of kids ever voluntarily participate.

They had a catered lunch, which was disappointing, because we didn't get to check out the cafeteria.

Since it was Easter weekend and we were already there, the girl from our town asked if we could give her a ride home. She had been planning on taking the train. We happily drove her home. She was in Hypo's section in the band and had hung out with Halo's group before she graduated so we know her pretty well. She gave Halo more insight into student organizations, events that happen on campus, and things like that. She talked a lot about a poetry class she is in now and how a lot of the poets they have studied actually came to class.

I did talk to the Director of Admissions and Financial Aid and explained that Halo is down to K and Michigan but that Michigan's aid part of the package is much lower in loans and family contribution. K's Lux Esto merit scholarship brings the cost down to the base price of Michigan but the aid packages after that are really disparate. He said I could call the financial aid office and talk with them to make sure they have the all the information they need but he did say they don't match packages. I mentioned during that conversation he was a Lux Esto scholarship recipient because that is their highest scholarship awarded.

The massive emphasis on Study Abroad is NOT a huge selling point to Halo. It isn't something he's that interested in but I suspect in this environment, he'd get used to the idea and perhaps embrace it when it is time for him to do it.

K has a pre-orientation program called LandSea where they spend a week backpacking, a week canoeing, two days of "reflection and service" where they can either spend it solo camping or doing a service project and then they also learn technical climbing. They do this in the Adirondacks and this is right up his alley but it is also very expensive so I told him we'd have to figure out how to fund it- through graduation gifts or if he gets a JOB (hard push at this point that Halo needs to work this summer).

So, kids from K do get into Ivy grad schools. Kids from K have many opportunities to work with their professors on research. Kids from K get a lot of nurturing in their early years and a lot of assistance in setting up their study abroad.

There are cons- the price, for one, if they don't work with us. If they do work with us, will it just be for the first year? Or will they continue to be more generous in subsequent years? That will be an unknown. One dining hall and a sandwich shop as opposed to 25 places where you can use your meal card on campus- including the safe bets of Taco Bell, Subway and Wendy's. As a D3 school, there isn't a big football program with lots of school spirit as you find in the Big 10.

We visit Michigan on Monday. He has been accepted to the Residential College which is a smaller living/learning community. Many of their RC classes are also smaller, in the same dorm where they live and there is a very strong language and fine arts component.

The way you're describing the visits sounds exactly what CNU does with our admitted Freshman days. It sounds like a really similar environment, and I loved it. The biggest difference is the emphasis on study abroad. When I did my study abroad, I had to go through a different company, CNU doesn't have a large study abroad program at all. Instead, what they do offer is special classes that you can take abroad, organized through different departments. The history department in particular is famous for this. My g-little is going to England I think for one this summer. There are usually a few different ones. One of the most popular is the Science of Beer, where the students spend 3 weeks in Germany.

I really loved my smaller environment at CNU. It made me really comfortable with my professors there, and I knew that if I needed help for anything, they'd provide it for me. In fact, my little has an interview for a French Immersion school near me (she is getting her MAT right now and was a French major like me) and I told her to ask one of our old French professors for help. Environments like that helped me learn better, because you could really tell who was interested in the material and what the professors were passionate about. It made me more interested in what they were interested in, and helped expand my knowledge of other things.

As for dining/meal cards: CNU has 2 dining halls, but parents can put money on them too for other restaurants/food places around Newport News that accept them. Off the top of my head, Tropical Smoothie, Panera, a few frozen yogurt places, a sushi place, and the bar all accepted this card. So that might be something that K College has too.

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by AGDee

It really is a small, very nurturing environment where each student is kind of expected to study abroad (80% do - the other 20% almost always engage in a "study away" experience in the US). They had an alumni panel yesterday with alumni from every decade who are all doing very interesting things including one who went to grad school and got Master's degrees from both Dartmouth and Columbia. It is the only colllege visit we attended where they had an open house with the department heads from each academic department at tables so students could talk with each one. Halo asked each of the department heads from his areas of interest what kind of research their departments were doing.

He attended a class, which is the first time he has chosen to do that, although other schools did offer the opportunity, they didn't make it as easy. He went to an Intro Sociology class that a girl he went to high school with is in. He participated in the class discussion and enjoyed it. What he really enjoyed is that every person in the class participated in the discussion. He said it was so refreshing because in his high school, only a handful of kids ever voluntarily participate.

They had a catered lunch, which was disappointing, because we didn't get to check out the cafeteria.

Since it was Easter weekend and we were already there, the girl from our town asked if we could give her a ride home. She had been planning on taking the train. We happily drove her home. She was in Hypo's section in the band and had hung out with Halo's group before she graduated so we know her pretty well. She gave Halo more insight into student organizations, events that happen on campus, and things like that. She talked a lot about a poetry class she is in now and how a lot of the poets they have studied actually came to class.

I did talk to the Director of Admissions and Financial Aid and explained that Halo is down to K and Michigan but that Michigan's aid part of the package is much lower in loans and family contribution. K's Lux Esto merit scholarship brings the cost down to the base price of Michigan but the aid packages after that are really disparate. He said I could call the financial aid office and talk with them to make sure they have the all the information they need but he did say they don't match packages. I mentioned during that conversation he was a Lux Esto scholarship recipient because that is their highest scholarship awarded.

The massive emphasis on Study Abroad is NOT a huge selling point to Halo. It isn't something he's that interested in but I suspect in this environment, he'd get used to the idea and perhaps embrace it when it is time for him to do it.

K has a pre-orientation program called LandSea where they spend a week backpacking, a week canoeing, two days of "reflection and service" where they can either spend it solo camping or doing a service project and then they also learn technical climbing. They do this in the Adirondacks and this is right up his alley but it is also very expensive so I told him we'd have to figure out how to fund it- through graduation gifts or if he gets a JOB (hard push at this point that Halo needs to work this summer).

So, kids from K do get into Ivy grad schools. Kids from K have many opportunities to work with their professors on research. Kids from K get a lot of nurturing in their early years and a lot of assistance in setting up their study abroad.

There are cons- the price, for one, if they don't work with us. If they do work with us, will it just be for the first year? Or will they continue to be more generous in subsequent years? That will be an unknown. One dining hall and a sandwich shop as opposed to 25 places where you can use your meal card on campus- including the safe bets of Taco Bell, Subway and Wendy's. As a D3 school, there isn't a big football program with lots of school spirit as you find in the Big 10.

We visit Michigan on Monday. He has been accepted to the Residential College which is a smaller living/learning community. Many of their RC classes are also smaller, in the same dorm where they live and there is a very strong language and fine arts component.

Call them and ask if that merit scholarship is guaranteed for 4 years and if the rest of the aid package will be similar. I expect that the answer is "yes" and they will be surprised that this even an issue.

Halo is lucky. He has two really great choices.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by KDCat

Call them and ask if that merit scholarship is guaranteed for 4 years and if the rest of the aid package will be similar. I expect that the answer is "yes" and they will be surprised that this even an issue.

Halo is lucky. He has two really great choices.

In reality, it is not uncommon for schools to offer one aid package to freshmen and then either tuition goes up and the scholarship/aid does not or aid goes down in later years. Everyone should know up front that it is up to the university how much aid they think you need! (So for example, when your daughter graduates, they might decide to reduce Halo's aid package?)

Also, many of the financial aid programs are tied to maintaining a certain GPA. If that is a 3.5 it is not so bad, but needing to keep a 3.8 or a 4.0 could be tough. I see a LOT of transfers from private schools or out of state to big in state school happening for this reason.

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by HQWest

In reality, it is not uncommon for schools to offer one aid package to freshmen and then either tuition goes up and the scholarship/aid does not or aid goes down in later years. Everyone should know up front that it is up to the university how much aid they think you need! (So for example, when your daughter graduates, they might decide to reduce Halo's aid package?)

Also, many of the financial aid programs are tied to maintaining a certain GPA. If that is a 3.5 it is not so bad, but needing to keep a 3.8 or a 4.0 could be tough. I see a LOT of transfers from private schools or out of state to big in state school happening for this reason.

There are tons of schools who DON'T do that, though. And any school should be able to state clearly what aid/scholarship money is guaranteed for 4 years as long as conditions are met and what aid/scholarship money is subject to renewal each year.

I have to confess to being biased. I think even a year in a liberal arts environment is EXTREMELY worthwhile for kids on all sorts of levels. I hope my kids take a year or two at an LAC if it's at all possible, even if they decide to transfer elsewhere to complete a degree.

[HQWest]

Product of an LAC myself, but I can see the benefits of both sides.

If money is a concern it doesn't hurt to ask, and no one will be surprised if you did. Read all the fine print. Tuition is a lot of money. How many threads are on here about transferring or having problems because of transferring? It's better to know now than be having to transfer next year because things are not all going according to plan.

[AGDee]

The scholarship at Kzoo is renewable for 4 years as long as he maintains a 2.5. I do expect all financial aid packages based on need will cease to exist when Hypo graduates from Barnard. My income has been increasing at a very nice pace and one child will be off the books. I am sort of expecting to be full pay for the last years of Halo's college career. The scholarship at K brings the cost of attendance to very similar to Michigan's. But for these two years, the financial aid package is significantly different. Also, at Michigan, most kids move into apartments off campus after sophomore year and that is significantly cheaper than the the typical room and board. If we did have a dire financial situation suddenly, he could potentially commute to Ann Arbor, although it wouldn't be fun or ideal- especially in the winter.

Tomorrow is Michigan. The Residential College at Michigan is really like an LAC within a big huge university. Sort of the best of both worlds.