Florida Loses Appeal in Terri Schiavo Case

[kddani]

Originally posted by chideltjen
The father is saying that her organs are functioning... whatever that means. And how he found out is not mentioned either.

He's medically psychic, didn't you know?

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by chideltjen
Trust me, I'd like to see an article on that as well. Because honeychile isn't the first person to say that she has the capability to eat and swallow... this same topic is an emotional one at another board I frequent. And someone mentioned that Terri could be fed Jello at some point.

But then that brings up the question... if she can eat SOMETHING without the feeding tube, why 15 years on it?

The reason is because whether or not she can swallow is a matter of material dispute in this case, and no news outlet wants to take one side or the other and wind up wrong.

According to the parents, she can swallow and the tube is there for 'convenience' for the medical community. This has caught on with radical right-wing dickfaces who hold up signs, attempt break-ins, disrupt schools and waste a shit ton of judicial time on garbage appeals.

According to people who have degrees in medicine, she cannot swallow reliably because she does not have full voluntary (or involuntary) muscle control. She lacks the pertinent capability to RESPOND TO FOOD IN HER MOUTH.

The swallowing argument makes me want to swallow in reverse, but it's completely understandable why a news outlet would not want to take a stand on the issue for sure (or err on the side of caution, at any rate). This is such a joke at this point, it's amazing.

[WCUgirl]

K Sig RC beat me to this. But here's a quote from an article published in September of 2003 that summarizes a past appeal:

"In the Schindlers' latest petition, they asked Greer to let their daughter undergo speech therapy, saying Mrs. Schiavo already tries to speak. As a side effect of the therapy, Mrs. Schiavo might be taught to eat and take liquids without a feeding tube, which means its removal won't be a death sentence, the Schindlers argue.

"It is Mr. and Mrs. Schindler's firm belief that Terri could have been weaned off her feeding tube years ago," Anderson said, "and would be speaking today if Michael Schiavo had only cared enough about her to see to it that she received the proper therapy."

Greer, however, has consistently ruled against the Schindlers, saying evidence shows that Mrs. Schiavo cannot recover. On Wednesday, he once again rejected the petition for speech therapy."


Link to article that mentions this.

[Speechpath]

Sure she can probably swallow her own secretions occasionally, but I'm sure the purpose of her tube is because she can't swallow SAFELY. She probably would aspirate everything she put in her mouth which puts her at risk for a deadly pneumonia. After 15 years of not eating, no speech therapist can fix that. She may at times attempt to vocalize but there again, after 15 years no real progress can be expected. And of course if she truely is in a PVS she lacks both the cognitive and linguistic abilities to do either one. Speech therapy (as great as we are!) isn't going to be able to do anything for this woman and her parents need to accept reality.

[chideltjen]

Originally posted by kddani
He's medically psychic, didn't you know?

Of course he is.
I'm waiting for him to predict when a cure for diabetes will occur.

[AGDee]

I have searched high and low for a fairly objective site with information about this whole case and found this one:

Florida Law Blogger

I think his time lines are great and I had NO idea that Michael Schiavo had gotten so many different types of treatment.

February 1990… Terri suffers cardiac arrest and a severe loss of oxygen to her brain

May 1990… Terri leaves hospital and is brought to a rehabiliation center for aggressive therapy

July 1990… Terri is brought to the home where her husband and parents live; after a few weeks, she is brought back to the rehabilitation center

November 1990… Terri is taken to California for experimental therapies

January 1991… Terri is returned to Florida and placed at a rehabilitation center in Brandon

July 1991… Terri is transfered to a skilled nursing facility where she receives aggressive physical therapy and speech therapy

May 1992… Michael and the Schindlers stop living together

January 1993… Michael recovers $1 million settlement for medical malpractice claim involving Terri's care; jury had ruled in Michael's favor on allegations Terri's doctors failed to diagnose her bulimia, which led to her heart failure; case settled while on appeal

March 1994… Terri is transferred to a Largo nursing home

May 1998… Michael files petition for court to determine whether Terri's feeding tube should be removed; Michael takes position that Terri would choose to remove the tube; Terri's parents take position that Terri would choose not to remove the tube

February 2000… Following trial, Judge Greer rules that clear and convincing evidence shows Terri would choose not to receive life-prolonging medical care under her current circumstances (i.e., that she would choose to have the tube removed) [READ]

March 2000… Judge Greer denies petition for more swallowing tests, finds it uncontested Terri cannot swallow sufficiently to live [READ]

April 2000… Terri is transferred to a Hospice facility

He has many of the legal documents posted, both the motions filed and the responses of the judges. It's interesting reading and is primarily from a legal view point rather than a moral/ethical one.

Dee

[RUgreek]

I love that South Park tonight did an episode on the Schiavo case, lol. It's ridiculous that it does deserve that kind of insensitive humor.

News flash, the Supreme Court rejected yet again an appeal from Terri's parents. Webster also has plans to update it's definition of the term "hopeless."

[honeychile]

[hijack]

Originally posted by chideltjen
Trust me, I'd like to see an article on that as well. Because honeychile isn't the first person to say that she has the capability to eat and swallow... this same topic is an emotional one at another board I frequent. And someone mentioned that Terri could be fed Jello at some point.

But then that brings up the question... if she can eat SOMETHING without the feeding tube, why 15 years on it?

In some hospitals, if not most, when someone is brought into the ER under trauma conditions, they are automatically intubated, and given a feeding tube. My father was technically DOA, but was still given the tubes. It was only when we noticed that blood was backing up in his breathing tube and the precursor to lividity was starting that we realized that there was no hope - even though there was still the tiniest bit of brain activity (we'll never know how much, since we didn't push for an MRI or PET scan).

I've had several clients who have had their tubes removed, have done well for a while, then needed one or the other back again. People can live with ng tubes for many years, and still eat, besides.
[/hijack]

I'm fully aware that my stance is not a popular one, but as has been stated before, a dog would not be permitted to die in this fashion under medical care. Take her tubes out, let her have water or whatever, and if she aspirates, so be it - but it would be a more natural death than this cruel and unusual one. This is worse than anything that has ever been done to a any death row inmate in this country!

[DELTAQTE]

Originally posted by honeychile
In some hospitals, if not most, when someone is brought into the ER under trauma conditions, they are automatically intubated, and given a feeding tube. My father was technically DOA, but was still given the tubes. It was only when we noticed that blood was backing up in his breathing tube and the precursor to lividity was starting that we realized that there was no hope - even though there was still the tiniest bit of brain activity (we'll never know how much, since we didn't push for an MRI or PET scan).

I've had several clients who have had their tubes removed, have done well for a while, then needed one or the other back again. People can live with ng tubes for many years, and still eat, besides.
[/hijack]

*nods* Well good for those people! Seriously if that were the case with Terri, I'm sure that after 15 years the doctors have tried to get the woman to swallow, feed herself, etc. I highly doubt that they've just let her lay there and not tried to get the woman to speak or eat. I still stand by that I haven't seen an article or person produce a video of poor Terri eating or doing things that would prove that she has a steam of continued consciousness. Do you really think 40 doctors are wrong on this? I'm sincerely curious.

RUgreek yeah I saw the episode tonight! I laughed when it said in Kenny's will "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T PUT ME ON NATIONAL T.V. IN THAT STATE." All the Southpark characters were like "Oops!" lol.

I'm sure Terri feels the same, she was a pretty young woman.

[Speechpath]

If she has no cortical brain function and only brain stem then she won't be able to swallow functionally. The brain stem is important for swallow function but without the cortex it's not really possible that she can eat.

People in rehab have tubes removed all the time, mostly because they regain their ability to safely eat but mouth. Many will keep the tube to help them supplement nutrition if they can't eat or drink enough to sustain themselves. In Terri's case, she kept the tube because she never regained the ability and that tube has really kept her alive for the last 15 years.

[moe.ron]

[Lil' Hannah]

Does that one sign in the back say "Judge Greer = Poo-head"?

[WCUgirl]

Schindlers Denied Visitation Overnight

I think it's just crappy that he won't let her own family members see her. At this point we're counting down the remaining minutes of her life - can't these people (both sides) grow up and all spend the time w/ her together? This is just beyond childish.

Edited to add another article:

Judge Greer asked to "reconsider his membership" at his church.

"What happens when faith in God collides with commitment to the job?

In the case of Judge George Greer, a Christian who ordered the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, the answer is difficult.

Two weeks ago, Greer's pastor asked him to reconsider his membership at Calvary Baptist Church, one of Clearwater's largest and best known Southern Baptist congregations.

Greer severed ties with the theologically conservative congregation within days of the request.

Calvary says it did not technically ask Greer to leave. But to some, its actions may have left the impression that the judge was forced out of the very place where disagreements are supposed to be quashed.

The truth, Calvary says, is that Greer was the first one to walk away and hadn't regularly attended church in several years.

The membership question was merely an attempt to make it official."

---

I think this is just...hypocritical. The church should welcome him as a member regardless of his political beliefs, actions on the job, or his attendance record.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by honeychile
I'm fully aware that my stance is not a popular one, but as has been stated before, a dog would not be permitted to die in this fashion under medical care. Take her tubes out, let her have water or whatever, and if she aspirates, so be it - but it would be a more natural death than this cruel and unusual one. This is worse than anything that has ever been done to a any death row inmate in this country!

This is how she would have died had we not played God and inserted a feeding tube into a person who has nothing but sub-primal brain functionality. Relating the death of someone with no capacity for pain, suffering, or cognition relating to the circumstances of death to dying from the electric chair just seems like a false analogy to me.

If she did, in fact, have any sort of these capacities, I'd probably agree with you and feel that she should be administered something to allow her to die in peace.


As an aside, South Park tonight was so sick - I've never laughed so hard in my LIFE as at the request to not be put on national TV. Absolutely brilliant.

[BetteDavisEyes]

She just died. I hope she finally finds rest and peace.