Down Low Brothas

[9dstpm]

I. Feel. So. Sick. I was just speechless reading about this. Ewwww. Why?? Why??

[Honeykiss1974]

I have the entire transcipt from the Oprah Show "Men Living on the D.L. " that aired on Friday, April 16, 2004.

Shoot me a pm and I will email it to you. I would paste it on here, but its about 31 pages long.

CT4, if you don't mind and would like for me to paste it on here, let me know.

[CrimsonTide4]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
I have the entire transcipt from the Oprah Show "Men Living on the D.L. " that aired on Friday, April 16, 2004.

Shoot me a pm and I will email it to you. I would paste it on here, but its about 31 pages long.

CT4, if you don't mind and would like for me to paste it on here, let me know.

I already posted that I have it too and a few folks hit me about it and I sent it to them. Naw don't post it on here. Copyright issues out the yin yang.

[UpPinkies]

See what these "men" don't know is to watch someone suffer from HIV/AIDS. I did and let me tell you it was not fun. They need to volunteer there time with AIDS patients and watch how they suffer, then reality might kick in.

Since they just want to kill themselves, why don't the play with loaded guns.

[sistarisin]

Call me naive but I have to say that my eyes have truuulllly been opened!!! I am thankful to be in a five-year monogamous relationship and shudder to think if I was single and on front street If I were single I know that I'd have to have nearly a psychological profile and an HIV/VD test on the person I dated before we could even get to the level of physical intimacy.

It's funny cuz EVERYONE is talkin bout this crazy chit. I was waitin on the train and I was listening to two women in their mid 40's and they were praisin God that they were not single.

I also have a couple of female friends who are in their early 30's as I am, and they collectively have been longing for marriage, children, white-picket fence. Some of them have online personal ads and are prayed upon by men they meet. One of my friends have even come to tears when around a bunch of other sisterfriends and all of them were either engaged to be married and/or pregnant.

The point is is that I hope that they will be much more discerning in the future-and ultimately if the desire is to just get their freak on - to make sure that that brotha pus on a condom.

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by sistarisin
Call me naive but I have to say that my eyes have truuulllly been opened!!! I am thankful to be in a five-year monogamous relationship and shudder to think if I was single and on front street If I were single I know that I'd have to have nearly a psychological profile and an HIV/VD test on the person I dated before we could even get to the level of physical intimacy.

It's funny cuz EVERYONE is talkin bout this crazy chit. I was waitin on the train and I was listening to two women in their mid 40's and they were praisin God that they were not single.

I also have a couple of female friends who are in their early 30's as I am, and they collectively have been longing for marriage, children, white-picket fence. Some of them have online personal ads and are prayed upon by men they meet. One of my friends have even come to tears when around a bunch of other sisterfriends and all of them were either engaged to be married and/or pregnant.

The point is is that I hope that they will be much more discerning in the future-and ultimately if the desire is to just get their freak on - to make sure that that brotha pus on a condom.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying...but are you saying that married women are happy because they don't have to deal with this?? IMO the Down Low Issue is more of a "eye opener" and "bombshell" for those that are married/shacking up/in so called monogomous relationships etc.. At least when you're single, you know that you need to get tested (whether you do it or not is on you) if you're going to be sleeping around. But the women that feel they have a committed relationship are not getting tested for HIV/AIDS..

My point is..NO ONE IS SAFE! Married, Divorced, Single whatever..this down low thing is touching errybody.. I just found out that a a close friend of the family has "suspicions" about her husband of 15+ years

[sistarisin]

I'm sorry. I'm not expressing myself clearly. I am not saying that married women do not have to deal with questioning whether or not their spouse/significant other is on the DL. That's very real and something to pay very close attention to.

My significant other and I have both been tested and continue to test at least once a year and continuously share the results. We have also discussed the down low issue between the two of us. I'm 99.9% sure that he's not homosexual but I don't rule it out 100%.

And yes, I agree that the married or in my case 'monogamous' relationships are equally at risk because we are more likely to be complacent.

I do, however, feel that I'd rather be in a monogamous relationship as opposed to being single where I would participate in the dating arena and would have to question everyone I meet. It's hard enough meeting someone, getting to know them and deal with developing a relationship with them and then add to that screening whether this person is being truthful about their sexuality.

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by sistarisin
I'm sorry. I'm not expressing myself clearly. I am not saying that married women do not have to deal with questioning whether or not their spouse/significant other is on the DL. That's very real and something to pay very close attention to.

My significant other and I have both been tested and continue to test at least once a year and continuously share the results. We have also discussed the down low issue between the two of us. I'm 99.9% sure that he's not homosexual but I don't rule it out 100%.

And yes, I agree that the married or in my case 'monogamous' relationships are equally at risk because we are more likely to be complacent.

I do, however, feel that I'd rather be in a monogamous relationship as opposed to being single where I would participate in the dating arena and would have to question everyone I meet. It's hard enough meeting someone, getting to know them and deal with developing a relationship with them and then add to that screening whether this person is being truthful about their sexuality.

OK i understand what you mean now..and that is great that you and your partner are so open about your results and get tested so frequently. I think yall are in the minority though...cause if this were the norm..there wouldn't be this explosion of HIV/AIDS ...

[reddawn18]

I got this email this morning. I thought it would be interesting read.

[i]
Ladies,

From a single Black male professional, please be careful of what you
hear and how you hear. Not all Brothers who dress nice, speak well and
love their moms, are Gay or on the DL. I for one, adore women only. I
am upset that Oprah Winfrey and her producers allowed J.L. King to paint
the picture that an epidemic of Brothers are on the DL and, that our
community is so over-sexed, that we will indulge in any type of sexual
Mis-behavior That brings gratification......DAMN Oprah!!!, have you
heard of responsible reporting?

It's a shame that the biggest day time talk show host, who is watched by
millions, would use her show as a pulpit for some
confused brother to further embarrass our already hurting
community,(Kobe Bryant, Michael Jackson, etc.). I mean let's be real,
J.L King is having sex with Men but, will not admit to being Gay,
(that's called confusion and
denial Y'all).

Black men are already under constant scrutiny of being thugs, pimps,
Playa's, thieves, etc. So, now we are under scrutiny for being on the
"DL"? You all have Husband's, Son,s, Brother,s, Father's and Nephew's.
Doesn't it bother you that everytime someone in our community
wants their book to be on the best seller list, they have to implicate
everyone else in the community?

And speaking specifically on J.L King, he say's that he was motivated to
write this book because he didn't want his daughter to "hook up " with
someone like him. So let me make sure I understand this, you care so
much for your Daughter that not only will you NOT give up your "DL"
tendancies, you impregnated your wife who conceived and could've exposed
the daughter that you "CARE" so much for to HIV, AID's or some other
sexually transmitted diseases. You then bring her on a nationwide,
syndicated talk show to try and show that her love for you is
unconditional. What the HELL kind of parenting is that!! Did you ever
stop to think that deep down inside, she just might be shattered? And,
if you cared so DAMN much about our Sister's, why didn't you inform your
wife about your deviant sexual behavior and let her decide for herself
if she wanted to risk being infected. Oh,but you "care so much".

I am also upset that Sister's were portrayed as being so desparate to
have a man that they are willing to accept this type of unGodly
Mis-behavior in order to have a "man" or, in order to maintain the
financial standard of living which she and her Man have become
accustomed too. No self-respecting Sister would knowingly jeopardize her
own life, Let alone the life of her children, in order to maintain the
status quo. What separates and defines a Black woman is her strength of
character, and her state of spirit and mind, not just her sexuality.

While I do appreciate the information the show provided, I was
disappointed that there was no balance to the show. It's good to Expose
that there are Brothers on the "Down Low" but also, let's give praise to
the Brother's on the "Up High". You know, UP on their responsibilities
and High On life.

So sisters, I love you all so, please be careful of who you're being
intimate with. And don't just assume that all brothers are on the DL.


P.S. J.L, since you chose to try and justify your behavior, you might
want to read Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13. It Probably won't
change your behavior but, at least you'll be without
excuse.

[Iota-girl4life]

Originally posted by reddawn18
I got this email this morning. I thought it would be interesting read.

[i]
Ladies,

From a single Black male professional, please be careful of what you
hear and how you hear. Not all Brothers who dress nice, speak well and
love their moms, are Gay or on the DL. I for one, adore women only. I
am upset that Oprah Winfrey and her producers allowed J.L. King to paint
the picture that an epidemic of Brothers are on the DL and, that our
community is so over-sexed, that we will indulge in any type of sexual
Mis-behavior That brings gratification......DAMN Oprah!!!, have you
heard of responsible reporting?

It's a shame that the biggest day time talk show host, who is watched by
millions, would use her show as a pulpit for some
confused brother to further embarrass our already hurting
community,(Kobe Bryant, Michael Jackson, etc.). I mean let's be real,
J.L King is having sex with Men but, will not admit to being Gay,
(that's called confusion and
denial Y'all).

Black men are already under constant scrutiny of being thugs, pimps,
Playa's, thieves, etc. So, now we are under scrutiny for being on the
"DL"? You all have Husband's, Son,s, Brother,s, Father's and Nephew's.
Doesn't it bother you that everytime someone in our community
wants their book to be on the best seller list, they have to implicate
everyone else in the community?

And speaking specifically on J.L King, he say's that he was motivated to
write this book because he didn't want his daughter to "hook up " with
someone like him. So let me make sure I understand this, you care so
much for your Daughter that not only will you NOT give up your "DL"
tendancies, you impregnated your wife who conceived and could've exposed
the daughter that you "CARE" so much for to HIV, AID's or some other
sexually transmitted diseases. You then bring her on a nationwide,
syndicated talk show to try and show that her love for you is
unconditional. What the HELL kind of parenting is that!! Did you ever
stop to think that deep down inside, she just might be shattered? And,
if you cared so DAMN much about our Sister's, why didn't you inform your
wife about your deviant sexual behavior and let her decide for herself
if she wanted to risk being infected. Oh,but you "care so much".

I am also upset that Sister's were portrayed as being so desparate to
have a man that they are willing to accept this type of unGodly
Mis-behavior in order to have a "man" or, in order to maintain the
financial standard of living which she and her Man have become
accustomed too. No self-respecting Sister would knowingly jeopardize her
own life, Let alone the life of her children, in order to maintain the
status quo. What separates and defines a Black woman is her strength of
character, and her state of spirit and mind, not just her sexuality.

While I do appreciate the information the show provided, I was
disappointed that there was no balance to the show. It's good to Expose
that there are Brothers on the "Down Low" but also, let's give praise to
the Brother's on the "Up High". You know, UP on their responsibilities
and High On life.

So sisters, I love you all so, please be careful of who you're being
intimate with. And don't just assume that all brothers are on the DL.


P.S. J.L, since you chose to try and justify your behavior, you might
want to read Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13. It Probably won't
change your behavior but, at least you'll be without
excuse.

I feel what this Brother is saying, and he made some very good points. However, this DL thing is real, and it is more wide spread than we as Black women want believe. My heart is aching right now because everything within me wants to hold on to all of the good things this Brother said about our Black men. Unfortunately when you have seen the poison of this DL thing touch several of the women in your family personally, or when you have found out an extremely close male relative of yours was living on the DL, it is kind of hard to be optimistic about the future of black men and women as it pertains their relationships. I am just going to put it out there and be real, I am afraid you all (I have lost folks over this DL situation), I am so afraid, that for almost six years I have not dated anyone. I am not bragging but I know that I am a good-looking sister; so attracting men is not the problem. But seeing this DL thing literally tear your family apart first hand is totally different than sitting out in TV land watching Oprah talk about it.

The ugly truth is we are playing Russian Roulette in dealing with our Black men now simply because you just do not know who is and who is not on the DL. If a man's wife of many years cannot tell he is on the DL, what hope is there for the sister just meeting him to detect his sexual preference? That close male relative I mentioned was my Dad, and not only was he on the DL, he was also HIV positive. My Dad is deceased now, but most would find it hard to imagine how it feels to know your Dad is on the DL, know he is HIV positive, and see him go after and get almost every beautiful woman that crossed his path. Most would find it hard to imagine being put in a position of wrestling with the decision of having to go to these women (many of whom I did not know all that well, and many times after they may have already slept with my dad) an tell them what the deal really was. Especially in light of the fact that my dad did not realize I knew he was on the DL. I found out by accident (but that is another long story). I love my Black brothers, but my faith in them (as far as romantic relationships go) has been severely shaken. At this point, I would rather be by myself than risk dying trying to decipher who is, and who is not on the DL.

[Little32]

I read the article about bug-chasing...and more than feeling disgusted, I find it infinitely sad. I think that it is yet another manifestation of this interanalized self-loathing. Why else would someone seek to give this disease to other gay men. The article seems to suggest that this phenomenon is isolated--at this point at least--within the gay community. And to me it seems to suggest that these men and others like them (i.e. homosexual), on some level, don't feel as though they deserve to live healty long lives. The way the article ended with the guy saying that the thought of giving someone HIV was like murdering them does even more to support this interpretation.

Similarly, I have looked at that ebonymale website and my impressions are the same....intense sadness that these men choose to live like this. Some of the guys on the site are openly gay, but many are not. I don't condone those living a DL lifestyle, but now coupled with my anger I feel sad.

Like Iotagirl, this issue scares me. Makes me think more and more about how I am not into the idea of promiscuity ("sexual liberation"), how hard it is to even think about love and romance when your life is always at stake, which makes it difficult to have a relationship...let alone think about physical intimacy.

[Iota-girl4life]

Originally posted by Little32
I read the article about bug-chasing...and more than feeling disgusted, I find it infinitely sad. I think that it is yet another manifestation of this interanalized self-loathing. Why else would someone seek to give this disease to other gay men. The article seems to suggest that this phenomenon is isolated--at this point at least--within the gay community. And to me it seems to suggest that these men and others like them (i.e. homosexual), on some level, don't feel as though they deserve to live healty long lives. The way the article ended with the guy saying that the thought of giving someone HIV was like murdering them does even more to support this interpretation.

Similarly, I have looked at that ebonymale website and my impressions are the same....intense sadness that these men choose to live like this. Some of the guys on the site are openly gay, but many are not. I don't condone those living a DL lifestyle, but now coupled with my anger I feel sad.

Like Iotagirl, this issue scares me. Makes me think more and more about how I am not into the idea of promiscuity ("sexual liberation"), how hard it is to even think about love and romance when your life is always at stake, which makes it difficult to have a relationship...let alone think about physical intimacy.

I just went back to the beginning of this thread and read that Bug Chaser article in Rolling Stone, (sorry I am late with that, I thought this thread was just about the DL brother that was on Oprah.) Anyway, this article just proves to me that there is some wisdom in my stance on celibacy. These sick son of a guns in this article just turned this whole HIV/DL thing up about another 20 notches for me. I am stunned, I thought that I had seen and heard it all, but this right here takes the cake. I remember Eddie Murphy talked about this in his movie Raw. He said something about sex becoming like putting you D@#! on the crap table every night, one day it is going to get to the point we you just put it in a explode (literally). If things keep going like they going, we all going be walking around singing that Tweet song.

[djjukebox]

Alrighty then ... shouts out finally to a "straight" brother who not only has something to really say, but has enough sense to put some scripture with it.

Oprah need to have THIS brother on her next show!
Hallelujah! ...
-------
DL Brother's Response From A Straight Brother

Ladies,

From a single Black male professional, please be careful of what you hear and how you hear. Not all Brothers who dress nice, speak well and love their moms, are gay or on the DL.

I, for one, adore women ONLY, have been in a relationship with a beautiful woman for years that I am about to marry, and have
SEVERAL partners who, like me, are appalled by the latest "brother-bashing" that has hit the airwaves.

I typically like Oprah Winfrey, but I am upset that she and her producers allowed J.L. King to paint the picture that an epidemic of Brothers are on the DL and that our community is so over-sexed, that we will indulge in any type of sexual mis-behavior that brings gratification.

DAMN Oprah ... have you heard of responsible reporting? It's a shame that the biggest day time talk show host, who is watched by millions, would use her show as a pulpit for some confused brother to further embarrass our already hurting community, (Kobe Bryant, Michael Jackson, male teachers in schools, etc.).

I mean let's be real, J.L King is having sex with men, but will not admit to being gay ... that's called confusion AND denial y'all. Black men are already under constant scrutiny of being thugs, pimps, playa's, thieves, etc., so, now we are under scrutiny for
being on the "DL"? You all have Husbands, Sons, Brothers, Fathers and Nephews.

Doesn't it bother you that everytime someone in our community
wants their book to be on the best seller list, they have to implicate everyone else in the community?

And speaking specifically on J.L King, he say's that he was motivated to write this book because he didn't want his daughter to "hook up " with someone like him. So let me make sure I understand this ... you care SO much for your daughter that not only will you NOT give up your "DL" tendancies, you impregnated
your wife who conceived and could have exposed the daughter that you "care so much for" to HIV, AID's or some other sexually transmitted diseasesand then you then bring her on a nationwide, syndicated talk show to try and show that her love for you is unconditional.

HELLO???????????? Exactly what kind of parenting is that?!! Did you ever stop to think that deep down inside, she just might be shattered? And if you cared so much about our Sister's, why didn't you inform your wife about your deviant sexual behavior
and let her decide for herself if she wanted to risk being infected? Oh, but you "care so much".

I am also upset that Sister's were portrayed as being so desparate to have a man that they are willing to accept this type of unGODly misbehavior in order to have a "man" or in order to maintain the financial standard of living which she and her man have become accustomed too. No self-respecting sister that I
know would knowingly jeopardize her own life, let alone the life of her children in order to maintain the status quo. What separates and defines a Black woman is her strength of character and her state of spirit and mind, not just her sexuality. While I do appreciate the information the show provided, I was
disappointed that there was no balance to the show.

It's good to expose that there are brothers like this one who are on the "Down Low" but also, let's give praise to the Brother's on the "Up High". You know, UP on their responsibilities and HIGH on relationships with their women.

So sisters, I love you all, but please be careful of who you're being intimate with. And don't just assume that all brothers are on the DL because "Oprah said so".

P.S.
This finall message goes out to J.L, all the DL brothers of the world, and any of your friends that you know are gay or either on the DL. Since you choose to try and justify your behavior, you might want to read Leviticus 18:22, which says ... "thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination".

And while you're reading, read Leviticus 20:13, which says ...
"if a man also like with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of thm have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them".

These verses probably won't change your behavior since you obviously do not know the word, but at least you'll be without excuse. When you know better ... you're supposed to do better ... now you know.

Walk comfortably and confidently in the FOG ( Favor of God )

[djjukebox]

The funny thing about the DL hype is... that IT'S NOTHING NEW!!!!

The new term to sell books is DL. But from 2 years ago on back we used to call these people 'IN THE CLOSET'.

It's nothing new.
Rock Hudson - DL / In the Closet.
The Daddy on Brady Bunch - DL / In the Closet.

It's just in the closet with a fresh new ribbon and wrapping on it so that the sisters will: BUY BOOKS, WATCH TELL-LIE-VISON TALK SHOWS during sweeps week, drum up propaganda so that people like J.L. will continue to get their GUEST SPEAKING FEES, etc...

[Steeltrap]

^^
LOL at Rock Hudson and "Mike Brady." We didn't pay attention to that because those cats aren't us.

It's not a new phenomenon, but I think it's hot now because there is a helluva lot of frustration out there among single AfAm women, especially in view of the fact that 65% to 70% of AfAms who receive college degrees are women and face it, most people want to marry or be long-term covivants with someone who has some similarities, including education, plus very long-standing fears about getting a disease that will eventually kill you, Magic Johnson notwithstanding.