Is Gay marriage necessary today or immoral?

[SummerChild]

What the heck is the difference between "marriage" and "civil union?"



SC

[MaMaBuddha]

someone please expand if i leave anything out


marriage is more on a tradition religious level.

Civil unions are like marriages, in that they are publicly recognised relationships that the state registers and issues a certificate for. Like marriage, civil unions will also give couples automatic access to hundreds of legal rights and responsibilities. Civil union couples can choose to have a special ceremony to mark the occasion with family and friends - if they wish. Unlike marriage however, civil unions will be open to both same-sex and different-sex couples, because there will not be any 'traditions' associated with them.

Civil unions will be another form of relationship recognition that exists in parallel to marriage. But unlike marriage, civil unions will be available for all couples. Civil unions won't be based on religion, or other traditional ideas about "couples".

-the civil union bill

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by SummerChild
What the heck is the difference between "marriage" and "civil union?"



SC

Web Definition: civil union - a voluntary union for life (or until divorce) of adult parties of the same sex; "parties to a civil union have all the same benefits, protections, and responsibilities under Vermont law as spouses in a marriage" (the benefits without the blessing)

Web Definition: marriage - the state of being a married couple voluntarily joined for life (or until divorce); "a long and happy marriage"; "God bless this union" (the church part blessed by GOD)

[SummerChild]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
Web Definition: civil union - a voluntary union for life (or until divorce) of adult parties of the same sex; "parties to a civil union have all the same benefits, protections, and responsibilities under Vermont law as spouses in a marriage" (the benefits without the blessing)

Web Definition: marriage - the state of being a married couple voluntarily joined for life (or until divorce); "a long and happy marriage"; "God bless this union" (the church part blessed by GOD)

Thanks Love_Spell,
I was asking about the legal difference and, from your reply, it seems like *legally*, the civil union is the same as the state of marriage? I didn't know that any states even legally acknowledged these types of unions but if this is the case, I truly don't understand the fight for legalizing gay marriage. Is it just the *principle* of the thing?

Thanks for the info,
SC

[Love_Spell_6]

Yes it does seem like the principle to me SC....
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44 Wright Drive
Avon, CT 06001
860-674-8942
www.lmfct.org


MARRIAGE: Marriage is a unique legal status conferred by and recognized by governments the world over. It brings with it a host of reciprocal obligations, rights, and protections. It is also a cultural institution. It represents the ultimate expression of love and commitment between two people and everyone understands that. No other word has that power, and no other word can provide that protection.

CIVIL UNION: A civil union is a legal status created by the state of Vermont in 2000. It provides legal protection to couples at the state law level, but omits federal protections as well as the dignity, clarity, security and power of the word “marriage.”

Some of the Limitations of Civil Unions:

Portability:
Marriages are respected state to state for all purposes, but questions remain about how civil unions will be treated in other states.

Ending a Civil Union:
If you are married, you can get divorced in any state in which you are a resident. But there is no way to end a civil union other than by establishing residency in Vermont for one year and filing for divorce there. This has already created problems for some couples who now have no way to terminate their legal commitment.

Federal Benefits:
According to a 1997 GAO report, there are at least 1,049 federal laws that deal with protections, rights and responsibilities that are linked to marriage, including the right to take leave from work to care for a family member, the right to sponsor a spouse for immigration purposes, and Social Security survivor benefits that can make a difference between old age in poverty and old age in security. Civil unions bring none of these critical legal protections.

Separate & Unequal -- Second-Class Status:
Even if there were no substantive differences in the way the law treated marriages and civil unions, the fact that a civil union remains a separate status just for gay people represents real and powerful inequality. The concept of “separate but equal” has not worked at other times in our nation’s history because “separate” is not “equal.” Our constitution requires legal equality for all. Including gay and lesbian couples within existing marriage laws is the fairest and simplest way to provide the rights, protections and obligations that every citizen deserves.


This fact sheet is adapted from a longer Q&A produced by GLAD (Gay and Lesbian Advocates and Defenders). To see the longer document go to www.GLAD.org .

[SummerChild]

Thanks Love_Spell. I guess that I do see some significant differences in terms of benefits and that sort of thing.

I don't really know what I think about this issue. In a way, I feel as if they should be able to be married to each other if they want to be. On the flip side, I feel like, goodness if this is legalized, what's next? I wonder about the impact of sending what can be perceived as an "anything goes as long as you consent to it" message to society.

Thanks again for the info,
SC

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
what rights are being denied to you by the government? i mean people are in here screaming seperation of church and state, but at the same time you all want the government to make religious institutions marry you... MARRIAGE IS AN INSTITUTION SET UP BY GOD!!!!

What do you say to the non-Christians who are married?

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by preciousjeni
What do you say to the non-Christians who are married?

What do you mean what do i say? Can you be more specific in what you're asking.

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
What do you mean what do i say? Can you be more specific in what you're asking.

You're essentially telling non-Christians that they are engaged in an "institution set up by God." That's your opinion (and mine actually but I'm trying to show the other side!) There are marriages between people of many religions, including atheists!

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
Yes it does seem like the principle to me SC....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

44 Wright Drive
Avon, CT 06001
860-674-8942
www.lmfct.org


MARRIAGE: Marriage is a unique legal status conferred by and recognized by governments the world over. It brings with it a host of reciprocal obligations, rights, and protections. It is also a cultural institution. It represents the ultimate expression of love and commitment between two people and everyone understands that. No other word has that power, and no other word can provide that protection.

CIVIL UNION: A civil union is a legal status created by the state of Vermont in 2000. It provides legal protection to couples at the state law level, but omits federal protections as well as the dignity, clarity, security and power of the word “marriage.”

Some of the Limitations of Civil Unions:

Portability:
Marriages are respected state to state for all purposes, but questions remain about how civil unions will be treated in other states.

Ending a Civil Union:
If you are married, you can get divorced in any state in which you are a resident. But there is no way to end a civil union other than by establishing residency in Vermont for one year and filing for divorce there. This has already created problems for some couples who now have no way to terminate their legal commitment.

Federal Benefits:
According to a 1997 GAO report, there are at least 1,049 federal laws that deal with protections, rights and responsibilities that are linked to marriage, including the right to take leave from work to care for a family member, the right to sponsor a spouse for immigration purposes, and Social Security survivor benefits that can make a difference between old age in poverty and old age in security. Civil unions bring none of these critical legal protections.

Separate & Unequal -- Second-Class Status:
Even if there were no substantive differences in the way the law treated marriages and civil unions, the fact that a civil union remains a separate status just for gay people represents real and powerful inequality. The concept of “separate but equal” has not worked at other times in our nation’s history because “separate” is not “equal.” Our constitution requires legal equality for all. Including gay and lesbian couples within existing marriage laws is the fairest and simplest way to provide the rights, protections and obligations that every citizen deserves.


This fact sheet is adapted from a longer Q&A produced by GLAD (Gay and Lesbian Advocates and Defenders). To see the longer document go to www.GLAD.org .

How can you say it's just "principle" when you clearly see all the limitations of a Civil Union??

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by preciousjeni
You're essentially telling non-Christians that they are engaged in an "institution set up by God." That's your opinion (and mine actually but I'm trying to show the other side!) There are marriages between people of many religions, including atheists!

The word of God spells out what is sin and what is not. I DONT. If I'm asked my opinion, I give it (backed up by what I believe). So you really can't make a point with what you're saying. It's what God says, not me.

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
The word of God spells out what is sin and what is not. I DONT. If I'm asked my opinion, I give it (backed up by what I believe). So you really can't make a point with what you're saying. It's what God says, not me.

So, if it's just God, why does the state issue marriage certificates and not the Church?

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by preciousjeni
So, if it's just God, why does the state issue marriage certificates and not the Church?

PJ,
It seems your argument lies with God's word...not me. Maybe you should pray about this and ask God why he destroyed a city for homosexuality, and why he specifically spells out that this is an abomination. And maybe you should ask yourself why you're such a strong proponent of gay marriage as a self-professed Christian. WWJD.

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
PJ,
It seems your argument lies with God's word...not me. Maybe you should pray about this and ask God why he destroyed a city for homosexuality, and why he specifically spells out that this is an abomination. And maybe you should ask yourself why you're such a strong proponent of gay marriage as a self-professed Christian. WWJD.

I'm a proponent of human rights altogether, plus it's my nature to take the other side of an argument.

[AXEAM]

PJ

I think Lovespell has a point you may need to take inventory of yourself (defending the gay lifestle) and your christian beliefs...the two just don't seem to jive.