University fo Okahoma-Sigma Alpha Epsilon-Racial Chant

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Considering the threats of physical violence against SAE and other GLO members just by association, I think it's pretty fair to keep their identities out of this.

Yes, by all means, let's protect the men who sang about lynching.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

Yes, by all means, let's protect the men who sang about lynching.

+1

[Nanners52674]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Considering the threats of physical violence against SAE and other GLO members just by association, I think it's pretty fair to keep their identities out of this.

Why? Why do they deserve privacy?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

Why? Why do they deserve privacy?

Why don't they? The reaction of the local community to this news was violence. People were unsafe just because of their Greek affiliation. It's a matter of student safety.

[ComradesTrue]

OU President indicates 25 SAE members will face discipline for their part in the video.

In addition:

After over 160 interviews, Boren said the university concluded that the chant is "widely known and informally shared" among Sigma Alpha Epsilon nationally. The chant originated from a national leadership cruise sponsored by the national fraternity four years ago, he said.

From there, Boren said, the chant became localized and became "part of the institutionalized culture of the chapter" at OU, as it was taught to the chapter's pledges

full story

[Nanners52674]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why don't they? The reaction of the local community to this news was violence. People were unsafe just because of their Greek affiliation. It's a matter of student safety.

Because they're racists and they don't deserve special treatment. They're just as guilty as the 2 named men. If you and to be a racist go ahead. But don't expect that to be something you can cry privacy for. Be a man EDIT: ADULT, so I'm being gender inclusive. and own your actions, don't hide like a racist coward.

[AZTheta]

The only "problem" I have with Boren's remarks re: the origin of the chant comes from MU2Driver's post earlier in this thread. He stated that he learned the chant in the 1980s. It is not unreasonable to think that it's been around longer than that. Regardless, that it was taught at a national leadership conference really says all I need to know.

[exlurker]

Another news story, similar to the one Comrades True posted a link to. This one's from the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/28/us...nity.html?_r=0

The story (above) says that the infamous song on the bus “was a fixture within a fraternity chapter at the University of Oklahoma, not an anomaly, the university reported Friday, and members first learned it at a gathering of the national fraternity four years ago.

‘It was learned by chapter members on a national leadership cruise sponsored by the national organization of Sigma Alpha Epsilon,’ the university said in a brief report on the results of its inquiry into the episode . . . . “

The story also reports that SAE fraternity leaders from “multiple chapters” knew the song, and used it on the the cruise.

Edited to Add:

From the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/g...id=ptv_rellink

Long story w/ links to some videos.

It includes mention of a sort-of-hilarious, and deeply sad / disturbing, part of the agenda for the upcoming SAE national leadership cruise --

“PR NIGHTMARE Associate Executive Director of Communications . . . presents a shockingly graphic, yet amusing, crash course in how Sigma Alpha Epsilon and our brand are perceived in our eyes versus the public’s eyes. He uses real examples of the biggest PR follies our members make in social media and other media and explains what it’s like to be the public spokesperson for us.”

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

If you and to be a racist go ahead.

Not sure what you mean there.

But don't expect that to be something you can cry privacy for. Be a man and own your actions, don't hide like a racist coward.

Be a man? I don't think it's fair to call these guys racists. You don't know any of them. Was this a racially insensitive chant? Hell yes. Are they racially insensitive? THat's probably fair. Are they racists? Not necessarily. And really.. "be a man" is a pretty gender-biased thing to say.

And two things--first, not only do I think these students have a moral right to not be outed by the university, placing their safety in jeopardy, I think a good argument can be made that the records of this investigation could arguably be confidential pursuant to the Federal Educational Record Privacy Act (FERPA).

A fraternity brother and I went up against OU's staff attorneys on a FERPA issue (they thought parking tickets were covered by FERPA) and won, but they literally made a federal case out of it before it settled. I don't think I'd have to be speculating wildly to think that OU's general counsel would consider the student details pertaining to this incident to be confidential. (link to show I'm not just blowing smoke)

http://foioklahoma.org/2014/05/14/fe...records-ferpa/

And before you suggest it, if the school is the entity which publicly outed the chant leaders, there may be a right of action under FERPA (I am now speculating wildly because I have never researched private rights of action under the statute).

All that said, OU takes student privacy and FERPA compliance very seriously in my direct personal experience. Considering they took the position that FERPA applied to parking tickets, I imagine they are trying to walk a FERPA tightrope here and that they consider these students' identities confidential.

[Phrozen Sands]

^^^ Your thinking is off. WAY off.

[Nanners52674]

Okay Kevin, does grownup work better than man? They should stand up and act like the adults they are, take responsibility for their actions. Just because their face wasn't on camera doesn't give them a free pass.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by Phrozen Sands

^^^ Your thinking is off. WAY off.

If we remove ourselves from the academic bubble, you're probably right. But violating FERPA is serious business. I suspect OU's administration has been counseled by their legal team to refrain from sharing the other students' information solely because of FERPA. Does it mean that those students didn't do anything wrong? No. But it DOES mean that the university isn't willing to jeopardize its ability to continue to receive federal funds - among other repercussions - just to name them.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Phrozen Sands

^^^ Your thinking is off. WAY off.

How so?

[MysticCat]

I'm with Kevin on this one. Aside from the FERPA issues, which I don't think can be ignored, to say everyone on the bus is racist and therefore should be outed is simply baseless. People on the bus were a captive audience; they couldn't leave if they were offended, so it's unfair to assume guilt by association. We don't know who on the bus might have been made uncomfortable by the chant or who felt intimidated enough, for whatever reason, not to speak up. As Kevin said, given the reaction toward Greeks in general after this happened, there are good reasons not to publicize the name of everyone on the bus.

[BlueOwl]

My son, who is a current member of SAE at a large public university on the west coast told me that two weeks ago, when one of the members of his chapter finished taking a final exam for winter quarter, he walked his scantron sheet up to the front of the room and handed it to the professor. The young man was wearing his SAE sweatshirt at the time and the professor commented to the young man "Oh, you are one of them".

Also, my son said that his chapter's Facebook page has received a lot of negative comments and threats.