ITT We Discuss Theology

[ForeverRoses]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I like St. Francis' take on it: "Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words."

In my experience, Christians ARE concerned about feeding the hungry, helping the homeless, etc. Largest private charitable orgs in the U.S.? The Salvation Army and Catholic Charities USA. On a smaller scale, I know here in Katy we have the Katy Christian Ministries, which many congregations support, not to mention all the individual initiatives of Christian and non-Christian religious bodies.

A fellow OLOW parishioner ( and mother of a former h.s. student - it's a small world) started this incredible org - http://www.centerforrenewal.org/Site/Welcome.html

My old priest in Ohio always hated the line at the end of mass that says "the mass has ended, go out and love and serve the world". He maintained that it should be "the mass never ends, it must be lived. Go out and love and serve the world". However the RC church isn't big on priests changing the words...

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

My old priest in Ohio always hated the line at the end of mass that says "the mass has ended, go out and love and serve the world". He maintained that it should be "the mass never ends, it must be lived. Go out and love and serve the world". However the RC church isn't big on priests changing the words...

We had a pastor whose charge was always "We have feasted at the Table of our Lord, but we cannot stay here. We must go and sit among strangers and share with them, in word and deed, the love of Christ."

I always liked that.

[SWTXBelle]

Our mass ends with "Let us go in peace to love and serve the Lord." "Thanks be to God!"

I interpret "love and serve the Lord" as including loving and serving all those in need, so there you go.

[barbino]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Some random theological musings:

I believe that Jesus called for people to care about ALL of people's needs.

When people were hungry, he didn't just preach to them, he fed them.

It bugs me when people say "well feeding the homeless is great, but they need Jesus."

Um, feeding homeless people IS Jesus. I feel like we minister to people through the things we do to help them, not just by telling them about the Gospel.

Thoughts?

I think that you are dead-on correct. Jesus tells us to feed the homeless, it is part of helping those less fortunate. Our church serves a meal after the service each Sunday. The church van goes to a shelter & picks up several people to take them to the church for service & the meal. We also have homeless from the YMCA show up often if not regularly. The pastor considers ministry to the homeless as a big part of the church. This includes social services like counseling, helping them do laundry, clothes distribution, etc. Taking care of the homeless is a social responsibility and also part of a Christian lifestyle.
I don't want to sound too preachy; sometimes I think that helping my husband get through seminary consumes my life lately.

[Cen1aur 1963]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Some random theological musings:

I believe that Jesus called for people to care about ALL of people's needs.

When people were hungry, he didn't just preach to them, he fed them.

It bugs me when people say "well feeding the homeless is great, but they need Jesus."

Um, feeding homeless people IS Jesus. I feel like we minister to people through the things we do to help them, not just by telling them about the Gospel.

Thoughts?

I feel you and I think that's cool as hell that you feel this way. But you can't help everybody, even some homeless folks. Would you help somebody who didn't want to help themselves? Because that's how it is with some folks. I don't think Jesus helped folks who didn't want to help themselves.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

You know I thought similar, but I accompanied her last year when she did it and I was impressed. At least one person was driven to tears by the experience, and we had several people said that they were happy we were there because work obligations prevented them from going to the ash Wednesday services at their churches. And a lot of those who refused actually talked to us to find out more about what we were doing.

On another note I got my Prayerbook and the Guide today and I am excited for both.

Hope it goes as well this year. And enjoy the new books.

Originally Posted by Cen1aur 1963

I feel you and I think that's cool as hell that you feel this way. But you can't help everybody, even some homeless folks. Would you help somebody who didn't want to help themselves? Because that's how it is with some folks. I don't think Jesus helped folks who didn't want to help themselves.

Lots of people, starting with Aesop, have said "God helps those who help themselves," but Jesus wasn't one of them, nor is it anywhere else in Scripture.

It seems to me that the heart of the Gospel, and what Jesus's ministry was all about, is that none of us are able to help ourselves and none of us deserve God's grace, and yet he freely offers it to all.

If we deserved it, even if only because we wanted to help ourselves, it wouldn't be grace.

[Cen1aur 1963]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

It seems to me that the heart of the Gospel, and what Jesus's ministry was all about, is that none of us are able to help ourselves and none of us deserve God's grace, and yet he freely offers it to all.

If we deserved it, even if only because we wanted to help ourselves, it wouldn't be grace.

I feel you on this 100%. What's confusing to me, and has always been, because no one has ever been able to answer the question. But some folks believe Jesus is God. God is the "Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit", which is what I've always been raised to believe growing up. What trips me out about that is the church I attend now, when our pastor baptizes someone, he says "I baptize you in the name of Jesus." When I was growing up, our pastor at my childhood church would say "I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost". Which is why I grew up believing that if he is all three, which some folks believe, then if God only helps those who help themselves, then wouldn't Jesus? Then it says in Scripture that the only way to the Father is through Chirst. Kind of what you were saying to a degree. Not to get all long winded here, but folks like to interpret the Bible in their own way. I say that because with my current pastor, I told him what my childhood pastor used to say when he would baptize folks. He said that's not correct. You baptize in the name of Jesus. So here I am thinking wtf, -two pastors practicing from the same Bible with two different thought processes. You feel my confusion? It's just tripped out, to me.

[dekeguy]

As a suggestion, you might want to read carefully the Nicene Creed and the Apostles Creed. Give it a bit of thought and then lets kick this around a bit.

[southbymidwest]

This discussion reminds me of the song we sing at Mass, that is based on this:

Matthew 25: 35-40 "‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 ‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 ‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 “The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ "

[SWTXBelle]

I think it would be easy to adapt these instructions in order to make an Anglican prayer - beads? It doesn't have beads, so I guess it is now an Anglican rosary. I also think the idea of making your own R.C. rosary is pretty cool.

http://rosaryarmy.newevangelizers.com/make-them/

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I like St. Francis' take on it: "Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words."

That's exactly what I was going to say; I love that quote. You beat me to it.

The other line it makes me think of is a line found at least in many Eucharistic prayers, and perhaps one of my favorite parts of the prayer (yeah, how liturgically-geeky is that?): "As this bread is Christ's Body for us, sound us out to be the body of Christ in the world."

And KSUViolet, I agree completely.

[Psi U MC Vito]

So it appears I will be standing on a street corner on Wednesday wearing a alb, chasing around people with a pot of ashes in my hands. Should be fun.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

So it appears I will be standing on a street corner on Wednesday wearing a alb, chasing around people with a pot of ashes in my hands. Should be fun.

Wow. I have to go to church on Wednesday to get my ashes. At least since I am no longer working at a Baptist school I will not have to continually tell people "No, I don't have dirt on my forehead!".

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

So it appears I will be standing on a street corner on Wednesday wearing a alb, chasing around people with a pot of ashes in my hands. Should be fun.

Will you be yelling "Repent!" "Repent!"

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Wow. I have to go to church on Wednesday to get my ashes. At least since I am no longer working at a Baptist school I will not have to continually tell people "No, I don't have dirt on my forehead!".

As part of our outreach, last year our rector instituted Ashes to Go, and stood at the busiest intersection in town for the early morning, lunch and afternoon rushes. This year we are doing it again, but expanding onto campus as well.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Will you be yelling "Repent!" "Repent!"

I seriously considered it, but I don't think my priest would be happy with it.