Why do multicultural GLOs/organizations exist?

[SOPi_Jawbreaker]

The statistics still may not tell the whole story. There's iniquity in who is being watched/targeted by law enforcement and also iniquity in the sentencing of white criminals and the sentencing of minority criminals.

African American Youth Are Treated Differently By the Juvenile Justice System
Drugs. According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health, among youths aged 12 to 17, the rate of current illicit drug use was 11.1 % among whites, and 9.3% among African Americans.[4] In a previous year, the same survey found that white youth aged 12 to17 are more than a third more likely to have sold drugs than African American youth.[5] The Monitoring the Future Survey of high school seniors shows that white students annually use cocaine at 4.6 times the rate of African Americans students, use crack cocaine at 1.5 times the rate of African Americans students, and use heroin at the same rate of African Americans students, and that white youth report annual use of marijuana at a rate 46% higher than African American youth.[6] However African American youth are arrested for drug offenses at about twice the rate (African American 314 per 100,000, white 175 per 100,000) times that of whites,[7] and African American youth represent nearly half (48%) of all the youth incarcerated for a drug offense in the juvenile justice system.[8]

Weapons. According to the Center on Disease Control’s annual Youth Risk Behavior Survey, in 2001 whites and African Americans reported similar rates of carrying a weapon (whites 17.9%, African Americans 15.2%), and similar rates of carrying a gun (whites 5.5%, and African Americans, 6.5%).[9] African American youth represent 32% of all weapons arrests, and were arrested for weapons offenses at a rate twice that of whites (69 per 100,000, versus 30 per 100,000).[10]

Assault. According to the Center on Disease Control’s annual Youth Risk Behavior Survey, African Americans report being in a physical fight at a similar rate (36.5%, versus 32.5% for whites), but were arrested for aggravated assault at a rate nearly three times that of whites (137 per 100,000, versus 48 per 100,000).

“The existence of much larger racial and ethnic differences in arrest rates than in self-reported violence is a matter of great concern. On the one hand, there is no reason to expect similar distributions, because these measures were designed to assess different aspects of violence. But if both measures are valid and reliable, the discrepancy suggests that the probability of being arrested for a violent offense varies with race/ethnicity.”—Youth Violent: A Report of the Surgeon General, January, 2001.[11]

Justice Policy Factsheet

[bows&toes]

Originally Posted by PhDiva

Okay, what does crime statistics have to do with the fact that MCGLO's should have the right to exist or not?

Nothing I was just commenting on previous posts by jubulance(sp?) vs shinerbock.

I think MCGLO's have every right to exist. As long as traditional IFC orgs don't get pressured to become more multi-cultural and inclusive I don't see a problem.

[Taualumna]

I don't think GLOs should actively recruit for any group in particular. If ABC sorority has no nursing majors, because nursing majors tend to join nursing GLOs, then they shouldn't have to actively recruit them. However, if a nursing major goes through formal recruitment and shows interest, then ABC shouldn't automatically shut her out. ABC also shouldn't say that nurses don't like this or that nor should they say that nurses "won't fit in."

I am sure that there are minorities who like country music, who are classically trained in piano or violin or whatnot (actually, I've never heard of a middle class Asian who has NOT taken classical piano or violin.) that might feel more comfortable at a HWGLO than at minority/multicultural GLO.

[bows&toes]

Originally Posted by SOPi_Jawbreaker

The statistics still may not tell the whole story. There's iniquity in who is being watched/targeted by law enforcement and also iniquity in the sentencing of white criminals and the sentencing of minority criminals.

African American Youth Are Treated Differently By the Juvenile Justice System
Drugs. According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health, among youths aged 12 to 17, the rate of current illicit drug use was 11.1 % among whites, and 9.3% among African Americans.[4] In a previous year, the same survey found that white youth aged 12 to17 are more than a third more likely to have sold drugs than African American youth.[5] The Monitoring the Future Survey of high school seniors shows that white students annually use cocaine at 4.6 times the rate of African Americans students, use crack cocaine at 1.5 times the rate of African Americans students, and use heroin at the same rate of African Americans students, and that white youth report annual use of marijuana at a rate 46% higher than African American youth.[6] However African American youth are arrested for drug offenses at about twice the rate (African American 314 per 100,000, white 175 per 100,000) times that of whites,[7] and African American youth represent nearly half (48%) of all the youth incarcerated for a drug offense in the juvenile justice system.[8]

Weapons. According to the Center on Disease Control’s annual Youth Risk Behavior Survey, in 2001 whites and African Americans reported similar rates of carrying a weapon (whites 17.9%, African Americans 15.2%), and similar rates of carrying a gun (whites 5.5%, and African Americans, 6.5%).[9] African American youth represent 32% of all weapons arrests, and were arrested for weapons offenses at a rate twice that of whites (69 per 100,000, versus 30 per 100,000).[10]

Assault. According to the Center on Disease Control’s annual Youth Risk Behavior Survey, African Americans report being in a physical fight at a similar rate (36.5%, versus 32.5% for whites), but were arrested for aggravated assault at a rate nearly three times that of whites (137 per 100,000, versus 48 per 100,000).

“The existence of much larger racial and ethnic differences in arrest rates than in self-reported violence is a matter of great concern. On the one hand, there is no reason to expect similar distributions, because these measures were designed to assess different aspects of violence. But if both measures are valid and reliable, the discrepancy suggests that the probability of being arrested for a violent offense varies with race/ethnicity.”—Youth Violent: A Report of the Surgeon General, January, 2001.[11]

Justice Policy Factsheet

Statistics on drug use are based on surveys which are FAR from accurate. I used to work for a company that compiled surveys of such a sort.

As far as the statistics on gun ownership, lots of older white men like to collect guns, go hunting, etc. I havent met too many black gun owners that go hunting, maybe thats just me though.

[SOPi_Jawbreaker]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Welcome to reality. Sometimes, in the course of conversation, new subjects come up. Get over it, its a message board.

Once again, we don't really discriminate on race. We don't feel black people will fit in our fraternity, so we don't actively recruit them. They're not banging down our door for a bid.

Also, my discrimination is based on how a person acts, not their skin color.

However, it comes across like you assume certain things about people based on their skin color and you already have judgement of them just by first look, so I don't see how you are not judging people based on their color.

[shinerbock]

Also, the last 2 don't really make any point. Carrying a weapon has little to do with a weapon arrest. Black people probably carry unregistered weapons more, leading to more arrests.

Also, getting in fights is different from aggravated assault. Aggravated assault is often with a weapon, with the intent to rape, etc...Thus, getting beat up by a gang is aggravated assault, while a fight between two fraternity boys usually would not be. Aggravated assault occurs with some sort of intent to harm, while fighting is usually simply a rage thing, not a true intent to kill or seriously harm another person.

[bows&toes]

Originally Posted by SOPi_Jawbreaker

However, it comes across like you assume certain things about people based on their skin color and you already have judgement of them just by first look, so I don't see how you are not judging people based on their color.

Everybody judges to a point based on appearance. It is not just color. The way a person carries themselves, manners, speach, dress attire all speak volumes about the person at first glance.

[macallan25]

Those statistics in red are also provided by a non profit public social service organization run by a group of civil activists.

[SOPi_Jawbreaker]

Originally Posted by bows&toes

Everybody judges to a point based on appearance. It is not just color. The way a person carries themselves, manners, speach, dress attire all speak volumes about the person at first glance.

Yes, but I usually reserve judgement until I actually have had a conversation with the person or have gotten to know the person for more than 5 seconds....unless you smell like feet or shrimp fried rice w/ onions, in which case I would just automatically hate you.

[shinerbock]

Being members of GLOs, I assume you realize the effort which goes into recruitment. We spend tens of thousands every year on kids we really want. We're simply playing the odds here. If there is a incoming guy who is a 4x legacy somewhere else, we're probably not gonna put in too much of an effort, knowing that he'll probably go elsewhere. Similarly, the LARGE MAJORITY of minorities wouldnt fit in at my fraternity. Sure, there may be one or two, but finding them would require a lot of effort, on a simple possibility.

[PhDiva]

Explain to me your thoughts on my "unearned skin privelege." Seeing as how I am white, I would like to know why you feel I havent earned the right to well, be an affluent white person.

I didn't say you didn't have the right to be an affluent white person but has your race been a deterrent for you in your pursuit of that affluence? Race has been used indiscriminantly to determine who has access to wealth, power, and opportunity. Race has been used to determine who was a slave, who had to sit in the back of the bus, who could attend certain schools, who could marry until miscegenation laws were banned in 1967 and who is more likely to die from infant mortality, breast cancer and yes, street violence (<---I'm not blaming this on white folks so don't waste your breath trying to say that I am). Unearned privilege means that you can walk into most stores and have a reasonable expectation of getting good service or if you are stopped by the police, you usually think that you aren't being stopped b/c of racial profiling. Unearned skin privilege allows many white folks to believe in that rhetoric of meritocracy when all of us knows that most promotions are predicated on nepotism and networking. Dubya has been passing himself off as a self-made man when we know he's a blueblood through and through. For more on unearned skin privilege, check out Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack by Janet Helms or any work on white identity development theory.

You have every right to pursue affluence, I sure as hell am pursuing it. But I know that my race AND my gender puts me at a disadvantage even if I am a 4th generation college graduate. So I've taken steps to try to circumvent that disadvantage by earning a Ph.D. It definitely helps but it's not a cure all.

You say that people of color aren't "willing" to join our organizations like we are throwing bids at them and they are declining them. Rather ignorant if you ask me. You speak like MCGLOs being put into place is a bad thing? I don't see how. Its a good place for people of like minded culture and traditions to be together and form relationships.

What's ignorant about saying that people of color aren't willing to join your organizations b/c they don't necessarily feel comfortable? What does your organization do to make minorities feel welcomed? Shinerbock says that his org. doesn't think black people "fit" - whatever that means. If he's judging on the person like he claims he doesn't, what does race have to do with fitting? Just because you haven't seen a black person want to join your organization that knows the difference between Glenlivet and Glenfiddick doesn't mean they don't exist.

As for the comment about me thinking MCGLO's are a bad thing, you need to re-read my comments. I talked about why they initially came into existence. I never ever implied that they are a bad idea. In fact, as you point out, MCGLOs provide like minded individuals a place to belong and feel comfortable. Thus, I defend their right to exist.

Once again, we don't really discriminate. We don't feel black people will fit in our fraternity, so we don't actively recruit them. They're not banging down our door for a bid.

Shinerbock - Probably, if you checked your prejudice at the door, you might find some black folks who might want to join your org. but with assumptions about black folks "fit", they will never bang your down down. You fail to see how your prejudical beliefs are becoming self-fulling prophecies.

PhDiva

[shinerbock]

I think you're being incredibly unrealistic. I realize there are probably some black people out there who fit our "mold" perfectly. However, if they exist at my school, I'm unaware of them. I'm not going to go specifically look for black students to join my organization. Colleges already do that, and I think that is a dumb practice as well.

[PhDiva]

Shinerbock - if you are not going to actively recruit black folks, why question their right to create organizations of like minded individuals that "fit"? That's what I can't understand. If you don't want a certain segment of the population, why are you against them creating something of their own?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by PhDiva

What's ignorant about saying that people of color aren't willing to join your organizations b/c they don't necessarily feel comfortable? What does your organization do to make minorities feel welcomed? Shinerbock says that his org. doesn't think black people "fit" - whatever that means. If he's judging on the person like he claims he doesn't, what does race have to do with fitting? Just because you haven't seen a black person want to join your organization that knows the difference between Glenlivet and Glenfiddick doesn't mean they don't exist.

Shinerbock - Probably, if you checked your prejudice at the door, you might find some black folks who might want to join your org. but with assumptions about black folks "fit", they will never bang your down down. You fail to see how your prejudical beliefs are becoming self-fulling prophecies.
PhDiva

I think you have to look at it at a proportional standpoint. Yes, I am sure that there are blacks that like to fly fish, wear seersucker, sperrys, drink Jack Daniels neat, play golf, and would gladly wear a sport coat out to a bar at the drop of a hat.
You can't sit here and tell me that there are a ton of them though. I have never seen one like that. Ever....at least down South. Therefore, they are not actively pursued during rush. We have thousands upon thousands of dollars that we use to find the best guys that we can, and frankly, I don't see why we should be obligated to go out there and find those one or two black guys that fit the same persona as us.
I think race has everything to do with fitting in. I am not saying that I don't accept people for what they like to do, but I just can't see a majority of the black population having any interest in joining my chapter, or chapters like KA at Alabama, Phi Delt at Ole Miss, etc.

[shinerbock]

I'm not against it at all, I simply didnt understand the reasoning behind it. I could care less who decides to associate with who. In my experience the multi cultural groups focused on that, being multi cultural. Now, if the groups are normal GLO's who just happen to be MC, then fine, I understand that. However, those I've seen don't really seem to have a point, other than having people from different cultures. Seeing as the world is filled with such people, I see no point in forming a group if diversity is the single goal.