Fraternity and Sorority Arms, Seals, Flags and other Insignia

[ElieM]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Not really. The US has no real rules of heraldry and most GLO CoAs violate the English rules of heraldry. Also to respond to lleduc, the torse (twisted band) is a fairly common feature in CoAs in general, not just GLO ones. And finally wasn't Ms. Butterfield not only an expert of heraldry, but the founder of a Women's Fraternity?

true - I was kind of thinking more in terms of symbolism (like lamps, keys, books, skulls, etc.) , rather than the specific heraldry rules (or on argent - that's unpossible!)

ETA: not that I think that knowing about symbolism means that I could try to discern the secret meanings of other GLO's CoA

[MysticCat]

Yea on seeing this thread active again.

(And yes, the "twisted wreath" or torse, is a standard componant of a traditional coat of arms.)

Originally Posted by lleduc

Here is a very interesting find! Years ago while taking a trip to Williamsburg Virginia with the family, I was in the churchyard, and came across a very neat gravestone that had a COA on it that was IDENTICAL to that of Kappa Sigma Kappa, which was founded in 1867 at VMI, this tomb was from 1746!! Here are the images I have of the KSK COA, and the tombstone.





Its very neat to see where an idea may come from!

While they are certainly quite similar, I'm not sure I'd go as far as identical. I assume the letters "ΚΣΚ" aren't written across the fess (especially since writing on the shield of a coat of arms is almost unheard of in traditional heraldry).

It also looks the crescents on the tombstone are standard crescents (horns straight up), while the Kappa Sigma Kappa ones are decrescent (horns to the sinister/left from the wearer's perspective).

Finally, the colors could be different, given that the tombstone doesn't show the colors.

That said, a did a little digging. If my hunch is right, the tombstone you have the picture of is the grave of Thomas Yuille (1719-1746) in Bruton Parish churchyard. The arms would be blazoned:

Argent on a fess between three crescents sable, a garb or branded gules. Crest -- An ear of wheat proper leaved vert. Motto -- Numine et virtute.

This means a silver shield with a black fess (band across the middle) and black crescent moons, with a gold sheaf bound with a red band on the fess. The crest would be an ear of wheat its natural color, with green leaves. While the fess and three crescents could be a common enough design, the motto is the same as the Kappa Sigma Kappa motto. So I do think you're on to something.

BTW, the VMI Kappa Sigma Kappa went inactive for a while, was later revived and then merged (except for nine chapters) with Theta Xi in the 1960s. The crescents on Theta Xi's arms are taken from the Kappa Sigma Kappa arms.

ETA: I guess my hunch was right.

[Psi U MC Vito]

I posted this a dog's age ago, but I found a better picture of the Founders' Plaque that most chapters have.

[BetaIotaDZ]

The crest for Delta Zeta was originally drawn by one of the early members. In the early 1930s the crest was changed because stationery engravers and jewelers complained that the original crest was too difficult to produce and that it did not follow the rules of heraldry. In this century, it has been changed again. The modern version is simpler, shorter, and uses the sorority colors instead of the colors adopted to conform to heraldry.

................................
Original crest ................................................Cr est design from about 1930 to 2000.............. Current crest design

[AlwaysSAI]

Originally Posted by BetaIotaDZ

Not that my opinion matters, but I definitely prefer the original.

Originally Posted by naraht

I guess this question belongs here. I noticed that Delta Sigma Theta's crest has the spelled out letters Delta Sigma Theta at the bottom in greek, but the spelling of theta is ΘΕΤΑ , but everything I can find indicates that the proper spelling of the letter is ΘΗΤΑ. Does anyone have any idea why?

MC will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the Θ symbol covers "Th" in the english language.

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by AlwaysSAI

MC will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the Θ symbol covers "Th" in the english language.

Yes, but naraht's question is not referring to the theta, but rather the eta/epsilon disparity. I am not certain, but I had always been under the impression at eta makes a "ey" sound where epsilon makes an "ee" sound. However the pronunciation of theta in English is certainly different than in Greek, so that may be reflected by the different spellings.

That being said, the Deltas, or any organization, can spell the letters of their organization any way they want.

[AlwaysSAI]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

Yes, but naraht's question is not referring to the theta, but rather the eta/epsilon disparity. I am not certain, but I had always been under the impression at eta makes a "ey" sound where epsilon makes an "ee" sound. However the pronunciation of theta in English is certainly different than in Greek, so that may be reflected by the different spellings.

Ah, you're right. I didn't read the question correctly. My bad.

[MysticCat]

Well, this is kind of an unusual update. We’re all used to branding-type logos changing from time to time, but changes in something like a coat of arms are much more rare. But that’s what I have to report.

I’ve mentioned at GC before how Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia has spent much of the last few decades in what could be called a “back-to-our-roots” enterprise. There has been a great deal of interest in what our founders intended, what decisions they made to chart the course of the Fraternity, why they made those choices and how those choices are reflected in things such as our symbols. There has also been a great deal of examination of how those intentions and choices have become obscured over the years, and we have seen a gradual return to the intentions of the founders. The latest example of that is with our coat of arms.

It turns out that the coat of arms that we have all been used to is not quite what was adopted by our National Convention in 1910 (12 years after our founding). It’s close, but not quite. This is what we’ve used for over 50 years now:




But this is what the 1910 National Convention adopted as our arms:




Obviously, the two designs are similar, but there are some key differences. Some might take close inspection to detect: the cleaner lines of the hands, pan pipes and lamp; the thickness of the red saltire or the number of pan pipes or strings on the harp. Clearly though, the most noticeable difference (other than the shades of red and gold) is in the center – it is not our jeweled badge that appears (the design of which was also standardized by the 1910 National Convention), but rather the central triangle from our badge with a narrow border. The original design, which lacks the white pearls on the badge, not only keeps the arms limited to our three colors – red, black and gold – but also makes the black triangle with the three Greek letters and the S much more prominent. In the "old" design, one notices the jewels of the badge; in the restored design, one notices the central triangle.

The revised design (with the badge) seems to have first appeared in the 1920s; somehow starting in the late 1940s, it became, for the most part, the only design used. With one exception, that is – our shingle (another thing adopted by the 1910 Convention) has always shown the “old” form of the design:




It was announced in the most recent edition of The Sinfonian that the decision has been made to restore use of the arms actually adopted by the National Convention. Obviously it will take time to make the transition complete – I am sure that the old arms will continue to be seen in a variety of places for some time yet. (Although interestingly, the post up-thread where I originally described our arms shows the restored arms because the image to which I linked was at Wikipedia, which was quickly updated with the restored arms.) But officially, we will now use the restored arms only.

Just thought I'd share.

[jazing]

Our crest. I like how simple yet complex it really is.

[naraht]

I guess this question belongs here. I noticed that Delta Sigma Theta's crest has the spelled out letters Delta Sigma Theta at the bottom in greek, but the spelling of theta is ΘΕΤΑ , but everything I can find indicates that the proper spelling of the letter is ΘΗΤΑ. Does anyone have any idea why?

[Psi U MC Vito]

I actually have a question MC. The most recent edition of Themes for Brotherhood listed white as one of the colors. Was that ever official?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

I actually have a question MC. The most recent edition of Themes for Brotherhood listed white as one of the colors. Was that ever official?

No, it was not. That's an error that creeped in an edition or two ago -- perhaps due to the white pearls on the badge. I understand that it will be corrected in the next addition of Themes.

The original official colors were red and black, adopted in 1898. Gold was added in 1910. As I alluded to in my last post, the 1910 Convention was a busy one in terms of symbols -- it standardized the badge, adopted the arms, adopted what remain the official colors, adopted the design of the shingle and adopted the flag.

[catface123]

@MysticCat From Sinfonian to Sinfonian just caught on your posts that you frequently use the term harp. I know it looks like one but in all of our text it is referred to as a lyre and should be referenced as one. Just giving some accuracy to your posts

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by catface123

@MysticCat From Sinfonian to Sinfonian just caught on your posts that you frequently use the term harp. I know it looks like one but in all of our text it is referred to as a lyre and should be referenced as one. Just giving some accuracy to your posts

Not in all of our texts. I think if you look around you'll find numerous sources that refer to it as a harp. That is what those who designed the coat of arms called it, that is what recent educational materials call it, and if you look at the article on the restored coat of arms in the December 2011 Sinfonian, you'll see that it is referred to there as a harp. And the reality is, it is shaped like a harp, not a lyre.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Fraternityguru

Yeah, I agree it always looked like a harp to me as well, but why did they call our HQ LyreCrest if they call it a harp in written material?

Per the Centennial History (p. 6.3):

The naming of the national headquarters in Evansville resulted from a brainstorming session between [then Executive Director Alan] Adams and assocate secretary Gerald Bordner, Alpha Sigma, soon after the move was completed. The location of the estate at the crest of a hill reinforced the symbolism of Sinfonia's crest, and a search for a defining term to incorporate music in the name led naturally from "lyric" to "lyre," symbolizing both music and Sinfonia. The Exective Committee was not in official session at the time, but the members of the Committee were so pleased that they reached a virtually instantaneous consensus, and so the estate was christened "Lyrecrest."

When the coat of arms was designed, the crest was considered a harp. Over time that harp has become associated with the lyre.