Controversial Poem Puts 7-Year-Old On Hot Seat

[CrimsonTide4]

Dayum good point, Honeykiss. Dayum good point.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
Rainman,

I'm just appalled that you are speaking on forgiveness, but yet have you done that towards the NPHC that you so passionately continues to speak out against? Don't understand what I mean? Let me break it down to you....

When you speak out against the policies/traditions/mindsets of the NPHC and its members on this board, should we then assume that you are bearing unforgiveness in your heart? If the answer is no, then why are you making this assumption about those on this board who chose to speak out concerning racial matters - that we are somehow harboring "unforgiveness" and "full of big egos" ? Obviously, speaking out against an issue and forgiveness are not related, right? Or is this only the case when you do it?

Have you forgotten that forgiveness applies to EVERYTHING in our life, not just those people or subject matters that we deem fit to deserve it.

Just something to think about while you are explaining why you are so "enlightened" and "different" from everyone else.

ETA: Teena, no one hates Rainman (well at least I don't) and shoot, and I don't necessarily agree with everything posted. But there is a way in which to get your opinion (even if its an oposing viewpoint) across in order to be heard.

Good question, Honeykiss and I will give (hopefully) a good answer:

I am (at least IMO) not harboring unforgiveness when I speak about the NPHC because at the end of the day I am always willing and open to make peace and be friends with NPHC members. What it comes down do in my diatribes is my expression of dissention or disagreement, but I do not take opposing views personally. I do not harbor anger or resentment or let the diagreement fester in my heart. I learn from the experience and KIM.

OTOH, this discussion (and many others like it), people take it personally to the point where it degenerates into personal attacks and namecalling. There is genuine animosity between the races. I harbor no animosity whatsoever with the NPHC or its policies. I may not agree with all their mindsets and mentalities, but I don't take it personally either.

That is probably the reason why Teena named me Most Tolerant on GC.

[teena]

Originally posted by Rain Man

That is probably the reason why Teena named me Most Tolerant on GC.

Very true.


I didnt see your response to the NPHC. But I have seen the responsed on non related threads.

[teena]

Originally posted by jubilance1922
You can do all that "foregiving" that your advocating, and not turn a blind eye to the fact that these horrible things did happen, and that it has left a legacy that we continue to be penalized with. I can do all the foregiving I want, but I continue to be oppressed and victimized, it is really my fault? I can't change someone's view of me just because I want to..."I know that my ancestors were slaves and treated horribly and you didn't view them as human beings, but I'm willing to foregive you so you should just all that racism and bigotry go." I doubt that's going to go over well.

Good point!

[sigmadiva]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
I'm not saying pretend that it didn't happen. What I am saying, is that the more you throw history in the face of the "offenders", the more they DON'T want to get over it and let it fester. You can't SAY to someone "You're a racist, you're a biget, you're a horrible person" and expect them to respect you for it. People don't work like that - they get defensive and it gives them a reason to dislike you more. Instead of pounding on the past, and "calling people out", why not show people that you are above that and above blameing the past for current racism????

See, this is something I don't understand......

When it comes to the Jewish Holocaust, we (the public) are never to forget so that it never happens again, and I agree.

BUT!!!! When it comes to slavery and racism against Blacks, its always 'Why don't y'all just get over it. That stuff happened a long time ago.'

Just an observation.......

[teena]

Originally posted by sigmadiva
See, this is something I don't understand......

When it comes to the Jewish Holocaust, we (the public) are never to forget so that it never happens again, and I agree.

BUT!!!! When it comes to slavery and racism against Blacks, its always 'Why don't y'all just get over it. That stuff happened a long time ago.'

Just an observation.......

Too True.

The Jews arent 'pulling the race card' when they remind people of the holocost.

[sensa_diva]

@ sigma diva...

Ditto but it seems that alpha or rainmain has not or choose not to address this issue...

@ paradise...

LOL

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by sigmadiva
See, this is something I don't understand......

When it comes to the Jewish Holocaust, we (the public) are never to forget so that it never happens again, and I agree.

BUT!!!! When it comes to slavery and racism against Blacks, its always 'Why don't y'all just get over it. That stuff happened a long time ago.'

Just an observation.......

Ok, if you want this addressed, I'll adress it with MY OWN thoughts:

I have never said that we should forget about slavery, and pretend that it never happened. I agree, it should be remembered, and you shouldn't "get over it". BUT - I don't think you can fairly say that "Because my Great Grandmother was a slave, I didn't get the job I interviewed for today". BUT - I also don't disagree that you MIGHT be able to say "Because I'm black, I didn't get the job I interviewed for today." It is hard to say that though, because you don't KNOW what the reason is you didn't get the job. There could have been 10 candidates for the job and 8 of them had less experiance/credentials, and 1 had more then you, but 1 is all it takes for them to get the job and not you. Hear me though: I WILL NOT say that it does not happen that people don't get jobs because of race.

Anyway, the point of my tanget is, I've never heard of a Jewish person claiming discrimination because their family was a Holocaust victim. And I know one main reason is because most people can't spot a Jewish person from a lineup (ethnic, and especially relgious) it's not to hard to pick out the African American. So I think the idea for "white" people is to remember that this could happen to us, because people who looked like us had it happen to them.

Once again, I don't think we (blacks AND whites) should "get over" slavery, but it doesn't help your case to throw it in people's faces (ie, this poem). And I think what I've wanted to say all along is the reason why I'm uncomfortable with this poem is that she's saying Columbus and Darwin, but I believe she's implying "all white people", and she's saying "in the past" and but she's implying now. I don't agree with the idea that ALL white people are the problem NOW. I'll grant you that even 50 years ago MOST white people were the problem THEN. But I believe today, that most has at least dropped to the minority of white people. I don't think discrimation doesn't happen, but it doesn't happen like it used to, and instead of taking that idea and pushing it further towards less and less and finally not at all, this little girl is making a push in the opposite direction.

[sigmadiva]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
Ok, if you want this addressed, I'll adress it with MY OWN thoughts:

I have never said that we should forget about slavery, and pretend that it never happened. I agree, it should be remembered, and you shouldn't "get over it". BUT - I don't think you can fairly say that "Because my Great Grandmother was a slave, I didn't get the job I interviewed for today". BUT - I also don't disagree that you MIGHT be able to say "Because I'm black, I didn't get the job I interviewed for today." It is hard to say that though, because you don't KNOW what the reason is you didn't get the job. There could have been 10 candidates for the job and 8 of them had less experiance/credentials, and 1 had more then you, but 1 is all it takes for them to get the job and not you. Hear me though: I WILL NOT say that it does not happen that people don't get jobs because of race.

Anyway, the point of my tanget is, I've never heard of a Jewish person claiming discrimination because their family was a Holocaust victim. And I know one main reason is because most people can't spot a Jewish person from a lineup (ethnic, and especially relgious) it's not to hard to pick out the African American. So I think the idea for "white" people is to remember that this could happen to us, because people who looked like us had it happen to them.

Once again, I don't think we (blacks AND whites) should "get over" slavery, but it doesn't help your case to throw it in people's faces (ie, this poem). And I think what I've wanted to say all along is the reason why I'm uncomfortable with this poem is that she's saying Columbus and Darwin, but I believe she's implying "all white people", and she's saying "in the past" and but she's implying now. I don't agree with the idea that ALL white people are the problem NOW. I'll grant you that even 50 years ago MOST white people were the problem THEN. But I believe today, that most has at least dropped to the minority of white people. I don't think discrimation doesn't happen, but it doesn't happen like it used to, and instead of taking that idea and pushing it further towards less and less and finally not at all, this little girl is making a push in the opposite direction.

When the day comes that I stop being followed by police while driving - yes, I've been 'tailed' by cops just driving down the highway, when the day comes that I stop being followed all over the store despite the fact I can pay - cash or credit- for whatever I want, when the day comes that I am not taken to the back of the restaurant to sit and eat - when these things stop happening to me, my family and my Black friends, then I will feel that the world has come to terms with all races. That day has not come, and it looks as if it will not come any time soon.

The poem is an expression of the world we live in, past and present.

[Phasad1913]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
Ok, if you want this addressed, I'll adress it with MY OWN thoughts:

I have never said that we should forget about slavery, and pretend that it never happened. I agree, it should be remembered, and you shouldn't "get over it". BUT - I don't think you can fairly say that "Because my Great Grandmother was a slave, I didn't get the job I interviewed for today". BUT - I also don't disagree that you MIGHT be able to say "Because I'm black, I didn't get the job I interviewed for today." It is hard to say that though, because you don't KNOW what the reason is you didn't get the job. There could have been 10 candidates for the job and 8 of them had less experiance/credentials, and 1 had more then you, but 1 is all it takes for them to get the job and not you. Hear me though: I WILL NOT say that it does not happen that people don't get jobs because of race.

Anyway, the point of my tanget is, I've never heard of a Jewish person claiming discrimination because their family was a Holocaust victim. And I know one main reason is because most people can't spot a Jewish person from a lineup (ethnic, and especially relgious) it's not to hard to pick out the African American. So I think the idea for "white" people is to remember that this could happen to us, because people who looked like us had it happen to them.

Once again, I don't think we (blacks AND whites) should "get over" slavery, but it doesn't help your case to throw it in people's faces (ie, this poem). And I think what I've wanted to say all along is the reason why I'm uncomfortable with this poem is that she's saying Columbus and Darwin, but I believe she's implying "all white people", and she's saying "in the past" and but she's implying now. I don't agree with the idea that ALL white people are the problem NOW. I'll grant you that even 50 years ago MOST white people were the problem THEN. But I believe today, that most has at least dropped to the minority of white people. I don't think discrimation doesn't happen, but it doesn't happen like it used to, and instead of taking that idea and pushing it further towards less and less and finally not at all, this little girl is making a push in the opposite direction.

While I still don't agree with your perspective, which is to be expected since we are from two different backgrounds, I do have more of an appreciation for your point of view after having read this post. It was a better conveyance of your feelings on this issue.

[OhioCentaur]

Originally posted by sigmadiva
When the day comes that I stop being followed by police while driving - yes, I've been 'tailed' by cops just driving down the highway, when the day comes that I stop being followed all over the store despite the fact I can pay - cash or credit- for whatever I want, when the day comes that I am not taken to the back of the restaurant to sit and eat - when these things stop happening to me, my family and my Black friends, then I will feel that the world has come to terms with all races. That day has not come, and it looks as if it will not come any time soon.

The poem is an expression of the world we live in, past and present.

^^^ I feel the spirit and i'm bout to do my Holy Dance!

[Rain Man]

Everyone, answer me this one question:

At the end of the day, what will all the b[el]ching, moaning, and complaining do to alleviate race relations and bring us closer together (read: What EFFECTIVE solution will all this ranting and raving about slavery, and oppresion will this bring to our present race relations)?

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by Rain Man
Everyone, answer me this one question:

At the end of the day, what will all the b[el]ching, moaning, and complaining do to alleviate race relations and bring us closer together (read: What EFFECTIVE solution will all this ranting and raving about slavery, and oppresion will this bring to our present race relations)?

Keep it in the forefront.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by preciousjeni
Keep it in the forefront.

I completely 100% agree that by all means, keep it in the forefront!

However, there are ways to go about things. Casuing controversity has a tendancy to not help the cause (whatever the cause may be). It's all about Postive PR! Like the story about the little girl who did the study on bacteria in ice vs. toilet water. I think that little girl showed how intelligent she was, and it was awesome PR to show that black children can achieve as well (OR better - that girl really impressed me) as white children.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by preciousjeni
Keep it in the forefront.

So true. We have just devoted 13 pages to this topic.

And just as a reminder, a DISCUSSION of race is not belching, belly aching or whatever. In the NPHC threads, there are postive stories posted too. But every discussion concerning race isn't a step back or people fussing and why some of yall are refusing to see the DIFFERENCE between the two is beyond me.

I'm starting to feel like a scratched CD......