Anti-War Protesters.... - Page 13

Rudey · #1 04-03-2003, 01:21 AM

Quick question, how do protestors "support the troops"? I see them saying something to the extent of "we don't support this government, but we support the troops."

I want to know whether activities similar to tupperware parties are held by protestors in which they protest during the day (along with feel the need to tell me they have a right to disrupt my day and vandalize property on my campus and other areas I frequent) and then group together to prepare care packages and visit the families of those in the armed forces to ask them if they need anything.

Now let's get something straight here. I'm not saying you can't be against this war and still support the troops. My roommate is against this war, does not protest, prepares care packages, etc. I have yet to see a large movement by protestors against this war that actually support the troops.

-Rudey
--Similarly, if I say my mother is the Queen of England, it does not mean she is.

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Sheesh, because, with all respect, you're wrong.

Congressmen and Senators spend a lot of time in their home districts. Local politicians and other interest groups are there, too. As are other special interest groups and important voices.

And again, respectfully, protests do make a difference. I'm sorry you weren't around during the Vietnam era or you would understand better, I think.

People are quick to point out that many protesters are looking for media coverage. Of course they are. What better way to get their message out. Is there something wrong with that? Really? Well, what about the daily press briefings and presidential speechs? Don't you suspect that they're held for the very same reasons?

Both sides use the media. Skillfully.

Many people believe that the real beginning of the end of that war came when CBS anchorman Walter Cronkite (at that time voted the most trusted man in America), began to question the reasons for that war (some of which weren't terribly different from the ones for this one) after carefully ballancing the protests against the politicians claims.

Presidents Johnson and Nixon's papers, recordings and other historical documents show that they were clearly obsessed with the peace movement -- to the point of ordering the FBI to carry out leagally questionable investigations (wire taps, infiltrating organizations, checking IRS records, etc.) of protesters. Talk about a loss of individual rights!

The real difference I see is the deeply unfortunate dislike, disdain, disrespect and even hatred for the troops coming back from Vietnam is missing in this case. It seems to me that the peace protesters, for the most part, are holding the political administration responsible, while still expressing support for the serving troops. (And yes, when you search your intellect, you know that there is a difference between protesting the cause and the troops)

While I still see a serious lack of hard evidence for the alleged reasons we're fighting, I'm not in any position to take issue with protestors on either side of this debate. And again, it is their Constitutional right to protest -- it's as simple as that, really in the long run.

PS to JAM -- having nothing whatsoever to do with the topic, my wife also grew up on a corn farm.

justamom · #2 04-03-2003, 09:10 AM

ALSO having nothing to do with this topic-
Delt Alum, it never ceases to amaze me how our lives are so similar!

ZTAMiami · #3 04-03-2003, 10:31 AM

I feel so sick after reading this article. I wasn't sure where to post it but I think it's appropriate here. Read this if you have a couple of minutes.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83002,00.html

Yes, say what you want to say. This is a free country and its ok. But to wish death and destruction on ANYONE (no matter what side), is unimaginable to me.

Honeykiss1974 · #4 04-03-2003, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
Quick question, how do protestors "support the troops"? I see them saying something to the extent of "we don't support this government, but we support the troops."

This was answered threads ago.

To avoid being redundate, a search will produce what you're looking for.

http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums...support+troops

http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums...support+troops

Just a few to get you started........

Peaches-n-Cream · #5 04-03-2003, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZTAMiami
I feel so sick after reading this article. I wasn't sure where to post it but I think it's appropriate here. Read this if you have a couple of minutes.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83002,00.html

Yes, say what you want to say. This is a free country and its ok. But to wish death and destruction on ANYONE (no matter what side), is unimaginable to me.

This story is all over the news here in NYC. This professor made some of the most shocking and offensive statements that I have read or heard from any of the protestors. Ever since Prof. De Genova's comments, the anti-war protests in NYC have stopped from what I can see. At least the news coverage has stopped if not the protests themselves. It's as if his comments showed the protestors that their behavior is not only anti-war but also anti-troops and anti-military. His comments were not only insensitive but boardering on sedition.

I agree with Rudey. I have said it before. If you support our troops but not the war, you can volunteer to help a family that has a relative in the military, donate blood, or send letters and care packages.

DeltAlum · #6 04-03-2003, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cream
I agree with Rudey. I have said it before. If you support our troops but not the war, you can volunteer to help a family that has a relative in the military, donate blood, or send letters and care packages.

It seems that you (and Rudey) have answered his question in part. In addition, a local TV station here is collecting funds, which are matched by United Way for families here who have service members on active duty. Some might also babysit or cook meals. I'll bet there are others.

Protesting is a time honored American tradition -- to before the American Revolution.

I would not take part in anti-war protests in this particular situation -- but if I chose to, it would not necessarily diminish my support -- or opportunities to support -- any single or group of soldiers.

With respect, feeling that it would is as myopic as some of the harsher protesters themselves.

Rudey · #7 04-04-2003, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
This was answered threads ago. To avoid being redundate, a search will produce what you're looking for.

http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums...support+troops

http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums...support+troops

Just a few to get you started........

I like the cute little smiley face you made. I guess if you have lazy eye, you can still rock it with some guys. But if it's not working, smack your head against the wall and your eyes will line up straight again.

If you read my post, you would understand that I was talking about a large group movement and NOT individual action (ie the entire last paragraph). I brought up the case of my roommate as an individual. I want to know the names of such groups. I have yet to see even any group on my campus that is virulently antiwar have a meeting to prepare care packages. If these groups exist, I would like to know their names because I'd be much more impressed.

-Rudey
--Just a few words "to get you started........"

Honeykiss1974 · #8 04-04-2003, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
I like the cute little smiley face you made. I guess if you have lazy eye, you can still rock it with some guys. But if it's not working, smack your head against the wall and your eyes will line up straight again.

If you read my post, you would understand that I was talking about a large group movement and NOT individual action (ie the entire last paragraph). I brought up the case of my roommate as an individual. I want to know the names of such groups. I have yet to see even any group on my campus that is virulently antiwar have a meeting to prepare care packages. If these groups exist, I would like to know their names because I'd be much more impressed.

-Rudey
--Just a few words "to get you started........"

I know, its hard for you to not act like a dumbass, but maybe instead of ATTEMPTING to be a smart-ass, you could actually clink on those links (or do a SEARCH) and perhaps you would discover the answer to your question.

-Honeykiss1974
--Just a few words "to get YOU started........"

Peaches-n-Cream · #9 04-04-2003, 04:21 PM

I just checked out those links Honeykiss. Thanks. Apparently, you are not supposed to send unsolicited care packages.

Honeykiss1974 · #10 04-04-2003, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cream
I just checked out those links Honeykiss. Thanks. Apparently, you are not supposed to send unsolicited care packages.

I know

Really (for those that are religious) the only thing you can send (besides letters, email, etc.) are prayers.

Rudey · #11 04-04-2003, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
I know, its hard for you to not act like a dumbass, but maybe instead of ATTEMPTING to be a smart-ass, you could actually clink on those links (or do a SEARCH) and perhaps you would discover the answer to your question.

-Honeykiss1974
--Just a few words "to get YOU started........"

I checked out those links before and I checked them out again. Still nothing. So, please since you've already gotten redundant by telling me to check out those links why don't you just tell me what large organized antiwar movements do to support the troops.

-Rudey

DeltAlum · #12 04-04-2003, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
...why don't you just tell me what large organized antiwar movements do to support the troops.

-Rudey

Hmmmm...

How about the Catholic Church? The Pope has been outspoken against the war, but there still are Chaplains, etc. with the troops.

Rudey · #13 04-04-2003, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Hmmmm...

How about the Catholic Church? The Pope has been outspoken against the war, but there still are Chaplains, etc. with the troops.

1. The catholic church's pope is expressing his belief. This is the belief of a figurehead and not all Catholics/priests/other units in the church. Similarly, to say Spain is pro-war would be twisting things a bit.

2. The primary function of the church is not to organize anti-war protests. In fact, its anti-war sentiments are hard to quantify...just what does the church do to be anti-war? How does this compare with other groups? etc.

3. Those chaplains were in the military before the war started. What does this say about them? With or without the war, they are there. Regardless of their audience being soldiers, they will be there. They are not simply serving the military but a much broader group. Thus I see no expressed support for the troops.

-Rudey
--I'm open to you going into this in more detail though.

Peaches-n-Cream · #14 04-04-2003, 05:22 PM

Rudey - this site might interest you. http://www.carnegiecouncil.org/homepage.php

DeltAlum · #15 04-04-2003, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
1. The catholic church's pope is expressing his belief. This is the belief of a figurehead and not all Catholics/priests/other units in the church. Similarly, to say Spain is pro-war would be twisting things a bit.

I'm not real sure that Catholics (which I am not one of) would agree that the Pope is a fugurehead. Last I heard, he does still set church doctrine and is it's final authority. He's not a basically powerless monarch. In fact, he doesn't really have to answer to the Cardinals, Bishops, Priests or anyone else for that matter. He answers to God.

And, to follow your logic, haven't you just created a circular argument for yourself?

To wit:

The Pope is the head of the Catholic Church and is anti-war, but it's OK for Catholics not to be, and potentially to participate in pro-war rallys.

The President is the head of the United States and is pro-war, but it's not OK for Americans not to be, and participate in anti-war rallys?

By the way, the United States is a democracy -- the Catholic Church isn't.

The "church" (meaning religion globally in the US) has a long history of protest. In fact, I am an ordained Elder in the Presbyterian Church, USA, which is a Protestant denomination. The root word for Protestant is protest. During the struggle for Civil Rights and the Vietnam Anti-War movement, many memebers of the clergy were outspoken in their protests, organized and led marches and participated in many other ways. And many went to jail for their (peaceful) civil disobedience.

You do bring up an interesting point, though. I don't know whether Catholic Chaplains become Priests and are assigned to the military, or if they join the Army/Navy/Marines/AF, etc. My suspicion is that they are ordained first, and the military part follows. If they are ordained first, I think your third point is invalid.